clarity PHEV dead after 3 weeks in garage

[Cash Traylor]

I could write another page long post on just this. Most of you know that batteries are a passion for me (well, that may be putting it lightly). The most important part about your little 12 volt battery is its birth date. No other bit of info when buying a battery now a days is as important when we are talking about "new" batteries. Some of you old timers will remember buying "virgin" batteries back in the day. They don't do that anymore unless you are buying smaller motor cycle and some small aviation batteries. These were batteries that were purchased and shipped "DRY!" The acid was in a separate bottle. Once you put the acid solution in ALL lead acid batteries start to age. This is accelerated due to the fact that it is done in the factory, they are charged and tested there, and shipped. Then they sit for weeks, months, maybe longer - on the shelves at the point of sale/distributor. With only a few exceptions, they are not even connected to a battery tender sitting on the shelf so they are aging and self discharging, which means they are sulfating. You actually would be better buying a battery, putting it on a commercial desulfator for 2-3 weeks, then installing it. So, if you are the one PAYING for the battery which is now much more expensive due to EPA regulations on lead. Like any beer - check the born on date! Pass if it is more than a few months old, like milk, dig to the bottom of the stack! The total reduction in life of your "new" battery is a multiple of how long it sat since manufacture. If you find a dealer (of batteries) in your area that actually has their stock plugged into a commercial bank trickle charger, considering the price of batteries now (not $30 anymore), it would likely be worth a $10 premium for their products all things being considered. Especially if dealing with "battery failures" are a big hassle for you (you live is rural areas etc). At least, like beer, you can have a better idea of the starting quality before you bring it home and put it in your refrigerator (on the trickle charger)....

I'm all out of battery, um - beer,

Cash

 

[Landshark]

Some beers are made to be aged.

 

[SoWaClarity]

Due to the corona virus stay at home situation, we haven't driven this clarity for 3 weeks, and this morning it failed to start, nothing comes on, no lights, no sound, completely dead

A quick check on the battery shows it must be dead, this battery has a indicator window saying blue (ok), red(needs work), clear (dead). and it is clear.

My question is: Is it expected with the clarity? should we worry about this and bring the car to the dealership?
I would expect the 12v battery can last at least 6 week sitting still (we live in warm weather), so I am suspecting some kind of parasitic battery drain with the clarity.

Should I have the car towed to the dealer? It has only 3000 miles, practically new. The dealer probably will just recharge the battery and return it to us. If it is expected that the clarity's 12v battery needs to be recharged regularly I am ok with it.

I know, because we did it twice. Yes, it's a hard hit to the ego -- but you left the car "ON". Sorry ;-) !

 

[Ragman]

Due to the corona virus stay at home situation, we haven't driven this clarity for 3 weeks, and this morning it failed to start, nothing comes on, no lights, no sound, completely dead

A quick check on the battery shows it must be dead, this battery has a indicator window saying blue (ok), red(needs work), clear (dead). and it is clear.

My question is: Is it expected with the clarity? should we worry about this and bring the car to the dealership?
I would expect the 12v battery can last at least 6 week sitting still (we live in warm weather), so I am suspecting some kind of parasitic battery drain with the clarity.

Should I have the car towed to the dealer? It has only 3000 miles, practically new. The dealer probably will just recharge the battery and return it to us. If it is expected that the clarity's 12v battery needs to be recharged regularly I am ok with it.[/QUOTE

Due to the corona virus stay at home situation, we haven't driven this clarity for 3 weeks, and this morning it failed to start, nothing comes on, no lights, no sound, completely dead

A quick check on the battery shows it must be dead, this battery has a indicator window saying blue (ok), red(needs work), clear (dead). and it is clear.

My question is: Is it expected with the clarity? should we worry about this and bring the car to the dealership?
I would expect the 12v battery can last at least 6 week sitting still (we live in warm weather), so I am suspecting some kind of parasitic battery drain with the clarity.

Should I have the car towed to the dealer? It has only 3000 miles, practically new. The dealer probably will just recharge the battery and return it to us. If it is expected that the clarity's 12v battery needs to be recharged regularly I am ok with it.

@Landshark

That is an interesting question and hypothesis... I don't know, and am not 100% certain I understand your statement/question. Are you not using Hondalink? Never activated it with a Honda account/VIN etc?

If that is the case, based on what I observed today, I would completely agree with you. That may greatly reduce your vehicle's standby power use. I activated mine, never really thought about it as I know the vehicle TCU sends Honda all kinds of info anyway. I wanted the long range climate and power state info. Of course, later I find I don't use it as much as I initially thought I would. The Clarity definitely "calls home (Honda)" when it is first turned on, turned off, and anytime it begins or ends a charging cycle (there is a minimum time limit I think, of 10 or more minutes between scheduled automatic "calls"). As to the data that is being sent, I am still digging through that. This is part of Wiresharking that I am still learning, with a layer of Fiddler running on top, and well, let's just say I need to watch more youtube instructional videos. I think the panda may be an easier solution, but that is more coding making my head explode. We can assume they know everything, and Hondalink tells us just a few variable.

I do not believe that "not activating" Hondalink turns the info Honda itself can get remotely from the car off. However, it would effectively eliminate "owner" information requests (pings), and that would reduce load, maybe substantially. If Landshark's long term storage success ends up being a rarity compared to others, this may be a real thing. Since most apps on phones run in the background (unless you specifically turn that service off), and can update in the background (ie, send a request for status/data to your car without you asking) it is possible that just having HondaLink installed on your phone and activated (enabled) can cause info requests you did not actually initiate. I haven't seen the source code so this is speculation! However, based on a hack report I read on Nissan regarding the LEAF and remote feature servers for their phone app, this is not that far out in left field for a possibility.

I don't want to create a panic situation about Hondalink and this 12 volt draining behavior. We need more data, and this kind of data would require a current logger and, although I have one - I am really not looking forward to doing that (it is a data feed, and boring as hell). We would be looking for needles in a haystack of where your phone requested an update in the background, and we knew it wasn't Honda. I am continuously annoyed with any developer, OEM, etc when they put out a software update (mostly for mobile devices, but even in general) and just say "Bug fixes and performance improvements..." in the version description. This goes back to "Right to Repair" stuff, as without a change log you are in the blind. It is possible that if this is the case, it may get fixed, either on the car via software bulletin - or your phone via an app update (assuming you do it or it is auto). That is, of course, assuming this is a real issue and not a figment of my imagination....

The bottom line is that the TCU is the tattle tree for Honda and the Clarity is talking a lot. I keep my cars a long time, and as someone who once manufactured a tech device, I understand the warranty-telemetry deal. However, once my warranty is up, I am pulling the TCU cable, and the black box FCAN as well. No, I don't have that little insurance snitch device plugged into my OBDII port or on my phone either. Everyone here knows my driving would exclude me from any discounts anyway! I am also becoming less concerned about the TCU/AT&T 3G obsolescence deal the more I think about it.... but I will have to think about it...

Cheers,

Cash

This is weird. Mine was left 5 weeks in the garage, without being plugged in and it restarted no problem end the main battery had lost minimal charge.
]

 

[Ragman]

Sorry about posting in the wrong place. Mine was left 5 weeks unplugged in the garage and it restarted no problem. The main battery had lost minimal charge.

 

[Stephen Parks]

Due to the corona virus stay at home situation, we haven't driven this clarity for 3 weeks, and this morning it failed to start, nothing comes on, no lights, no sound, completely dead

Should I have the car towed to the dealer? It has only 3000 miles, practically new. The dealer probably will just recharge the battery and return it to us. If it is expected that the clarity's 12v battery needs to be recharged regularly I am ok with it.

>>

No, you probably don't need to tow it. Some car companies are still using traditional 12V batteries in plug in cars, because they either don't want to invest in developing the higher voltage hardware changes for the large battery, or it isn't available for their design, or they don't even want to use a voltage step down converter to drop it down to 12V for this old equipment (things like Stereo and some other car electronics). They many have many reasons for doing this, but either way, it should be charging the 12V battery when you plug the car in, so you can try that, but it may need the 12V power to run the big battery charger. If it continues to not respond after being plugged in, you can use another car to "jump start" or buy a trickle charger like motor cycle rider use to charge it back up when it isn't being used. Once it comes alive again, you may try plugging it in once a week or once every two weeks. The power drain is probably electronics in the car draining the battery waiting for door access and running the car alarm, etc. I have never had this problem on my Chevy Volt or Bolt, but it does happen on our son's 2012 Ford Focus electric. The 2012 model does not properly charge the 12V battery, so we tell him to just replace it every 3 years, sure it costs $150 to replace the battery, but still way cheaper than using gas!

 

[jpkik96]

All - just to add to this post, I parked my 2018 Clarity last Saturday night with close to a full charge and came out this morning to a dead 12V battery. Easy to jump start as outlined in the Clarity manual - using a jumper pack, and with clamps on the + and - Jumper posts it easily started and than proceeded to do computer reboot. Just make sure you have jumper cables long enough - approx 6 ft total - to accommodate the distance between the two posts.

By the way, as mentioned in several previous posts, everything cleared up within he first 3 minutes of driving but I was more that a little surprised that a car that the 12V batery would die in less then 6 days....have a great weekend!

 

[Landshark]

A healthy 12V battery should not discharge in 6 days in a Clarity or any other car that is parked and turned off.

Ours was left unplugged for 4 weeks. The 12V battery read 12.45V upon return and it started as normal. Currently it has been abandoned in So Cal for the past 12 weeks, garaged and unplugged. A few weeks ago I asked a friend to check on it, but he’s been unable to get over there. He should be able to take a measurement on the voltage before attempting to start the car.

Whatever the result, I’ll have him put the Tender on it.

 

[jpkik96]

A healthy 12V battery should not discharge in 6 days in a Clarity or any other car that is parked and turned off.

Ours was left unplugged for 4 weeks. The 12V battery read 12.45V upon return and it started as normal. Currently it has been abandoned in So Cal for the past 12 weeks, garaged and unplugged. A few weeks ago I asked a friend to check on it, but he’s been unable to get over there. He should be able to take a measurement on the voltage before attempting to start the car.

Whatever the result, I’ll have him put the Tender on it.

Landshark/All -

Thanks to your replies to this thread, I had my local Honda dealer inspect the 12v battery this morning and it failed the load test and was replaced under warranty. Still odd that a Honda battery fails within 24 months but good to know I now have a new one for the remainder of the lease (or if I decide to purchase it from Honda)

Have a great weekend!