These problems you're describing are very disturbing. I guess you bought a 2017? It shouldn't matter that it was a first-year car at this point. I would think most of the parts, especially the windshield, are the same on the '18, '19 and '20 Claritys. Are others having issues like this when they need repairs?
Clarity A/C problem (and warranty extension on pg 10)
- Thread starter Benoit Paquette
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Valente
Active Member
No. Mine was a 2018 purchased January 1, 2018. There is so 2017 model. Others are having parts issues. I was told by the extended warranty people that all Clarity plug-ins have AC issues as well as other engine issues and that getting parts is a real problem. I was even told this by the shuttle driver who drove me home when I dropped off my car a month ago. A lot of AC issues.
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Here is an interesting observation (unfortunately it doesn't help you however)...
The A/C evaporator on the Clarity Plug-in Hybrid is P/N 80211-TRT-A41.
This part does indeed seem to be unique to the Clarity PHEV and thus there are no aftermarket parts available.
It sells for $260 at Honda (but as you note, who knows how long it will take to get it).
Oddly, the Clarity BEV uses a different evaporator P/N: 80211-TBA-A11.
This part is used by many different Hondas including Accords, Civics and the Clarity BEV.
As such, this part is widely available from Honda and from the aftermarket parts stores. It is also a substantially lower cost ($133)
These two parts sure do look the same on the crude parts diagrams...
It is pretty unlikely, but I wonder if an enterprising mechanic could adapt the Accord evaporator to work in the Clarity PHEV?
The A/C evaporator on the Clarity Plug-in Hybrid is P/N 80211-TRT-A41.
This part does indeed seem to be unique to the Clarity PHEV and thus there are no aftermarket parts available.
It sells for $260 at Honda (but as you note, who knows how long it will take to get it).
Oddly, the Clarity BEV uses a different evaporator P/N: 80211-TBA-A11.
This part is used by many different Hondas including Accords, Civics and the Clarity BEV.
As such, this part is widely available from Honda and from the aftermarket parts stores. It is also a substantially lower cost ($133)
These two parts sure do look the same on the crude parts diagrams...
It is pretty unlikely, but I wonder if an enterprising mechanic could adapt the Accord evaporator to work in the Clarity PHEV?
aapitten
Active Member
So another datapoint - after almost an entire day of diagnosis on Tuesday 5/19/20 (and lots of frustrations with thh 1234YF refrigerant) the dealer determined my condenser was leaking and would be covered by warranty.
They called and let me know they could get it next day without any issues BUT our cars require a special oil in the system due to the electric compressor. They indicated (on Tuesday) the oil was oil stocked in Cali and would take about a week to get here. I'll keep everyone posted. Seems they must have condensers in stock and not evaporators.
I asked (ballpark) what this would have cost out of warranty and they said parts would have been about $800 plus labor. I don't know if that included the (Very expensive) 1234YF or not. Makes that extended warranty more tempting (though I never do those....)
They called and let me know they could get it next day without any issues BUT our cars require a special oil in the system due to the electric compressor. They indicated (on Tuesday) the oil was oil stocked in Cali and would take about a week to get here. I'll keep everyone posted. Seems they must have condensers in stock and not evaporators.
I asked (ballpark) what this would have cost out of warranty and they said parts would have been about $800 plus labor. I don't know if that included the (Very expensive) 1234YF or not. Makes that extended warranty more tempting (though I never do those....)
I'm glad I bought the Honda Care extended warranty (8 years, 120K miles). I probably won't have the car that long. If I have a problem, I won't be accepting a Civic. I wouldn't fit in it.
Valente
Active Member
Just got back from the dealer. THey've had my car for almost a month and decided to inject freon/refrigerant into the system to make it usable until the evap core arrives....probably late July. Last time they installed refrigerant was Sept 2019 so apparently it had a very slow leak that lasted about 7 months. They really should have done that at the very beginning instead of making me drive a small Civic. Car dealers. Useless.
I'm glad you'll have it back in the meantime. You're right. they should have suggested that to begin with.
I just read your post. My ac doesn't have the same cooling power as it did in the beginning. My Clarity is 1.5 years old with 24,150 miles.
May you expand on your experience so that I may prepare for my fight with the dealer?
Also, I have never read about the 24k mile warranty limit. Am I screwed at 24,150?
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Just looked in the warranty manual...
The factory warranty is 3 years / 36K miles, but there are a few things that are limited to less. One of those things is 'refrigerant'.
Here is the wording:
I would interpret this to mean that the A/C system is covered under the 3Y / 36K. If something fails and the repair entails replacing refrigerant then it is covered.
Of course, if a stone punctures the system that's not covered. The gray area is if your refrigerant leaks out slowly over time (your likely scenario), then they may balk. The reality is that this is supposed to be a sealed system, and a small leak could very likely be a defect in a component, or a manufacturing / assembly defect. To me, that should be covered within the 3Y / 36K. It probably depends on the nature of your service guy, and how you approach them.
There is always that fine line when you are just beyond the time / miles... A reasonable service manager should honor the 24K if you have 24.1K, but you better get in there pronto !
Anyone else have an opinion about this one?
The factory warranty is 3 years / 36K miles, but there are a few things that are limited to less. One of those things is 'refrigerant'.
Here is the wording:
I would interpret this to mean that the A/C system is covered under the 3Y / 36K. If something fails and the repair entails replacing refrigerant then it is covered.
Of course, if a stone punctures the system that's not covered. The gray area is if your refrigerant leaks out slowly over time (your likely scenario), then they may balk. The reality is that this is supposed to be a sealed system, and a small leak could very likely be a defect in a component, or a manufacturing / assembly defect. To me, that should be covered within the 3Y / 36K. It probably depends on the nature of your service guy, and how you approach them.
There is always that fine line when you are just beyond the time / miles... A reasonable service manager should honor the 24K if you have 24.1K, but you better get in there pronto !
Anyone else have an opinion about this one?
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
So let's say the dealer determines that the condenser or evaporator is bad, but there is no evidence of physical damage.
Isn't the burden of proof on them to identify the physical damage caused by a rock, etc?
If he can't point to some physical damage, then it MUST be a factory defect (bad seam or similar). Refrigerant doesn't just go away spontaneously.
I just read through this thread more closely. You've been dealing with this since September of last year? I take it they refilled the system them (and charged you for it?), and it then slowly leaked out over the next several months? And probably didn't become noticeable until warm weather hit again? That's a long time to try to get a repair done. Is there any indication that it might be taking longer to get the part due to all that is going on with Covid-19? Maybe this is partially a supply chain issue, or an issue of limits to staffing or shipping delays? I'd really like to think this isn't normal.
craze1cars
Well-Known Member
Yes.
Now all someone has to do is get the warranty company to agree with my opinion and pay for the repairs.
I’m no attorney, but where the burden of proof lies depends on how the warranty is written, who is interpreting the warranty, in which way, in which state, on a given situation. Burden of proof is battled on these types of situations every day. Even the courts are inconsistent in interpretations:
https://www.ballardspahr.com/alerts...press-warranty-claim-burden-shifts-to-defense
This is America, land of the attorneys. Roll the dice.
Valente
Active Member
I was told by Honda Corp of America that the "evaporator core" is being shipped from Japan via boat - not cargo plane. That's why it takes so long. Anyone having issues with AC should take their car immediately to dealer before the original warranty expires and before the car hits 24,000 miles. When my AC stopped working in Sept of 2019, the dealer said they couldn't find a leak so they replenished with refrigerant and charged me $300 because I had 38,000 mi on my car and refrigerant is only covered up to 24,000 mi. The dealership LIED!! When I bought my car back in with broken AC in April of this year, they suddenly discovered it was the evaporator core. Thankfully, I purchased an extended warranty but unfortunately, it was an extended warranty through another company NOT the standard Honda extended warranty. Bad thing is - this warranty can only be used through their dealership. I can't take it to another Honda dealership. I'm seriously thinking about selling the car but Blue book value is only $15,000 for trade-in. What a mess.
That's a lot of information! As far as service extended service contracts go, I've bought the off-brand (third-party) service contracts before, but I've decided I won't do that again (I bought Honda Care for my Clarity). I bought one in the 90s and actually had to use it for a massive repair. It worked fine, and I didn't have to go to the dealership I bought the car at. It wasn't honored everywhere, but it was honored at many dealerships. You might check to see if yours is honored at other dealerships. I think it will be honored by any dealership that sells those same warranties, and maybe more who just want the business from the repairs.
When you say the dealership lied, do you mean they lied about the leak in the evaporator core? They probably weren't lying about that. I had a 2000 Toyota Sienna minivan that developed a similar problem. When the A/C got steadily weaker, I brought it to my mechanic, who is a friend of mine whom I trust. He checked it, filled it up, and found no leaks. Like your situation, it was right before the cool weather started. I started having the same problem again the following April (when the weather got warm). I brought it to him again with the same result (and he really checked it that time). It leaked out again, so the next time I believe he put refrigerant in with some sort of dye and then used what he called a "sniffer" to find the leak. It was the evaporator core. It's hard to test the core because it's way up under the dash. Anyway, he replaced it, recharged the system, and it's worked fine ever since (another friend has that Sienna now, so I know). My mechanic friend wasn't lying to me. I suppose he could've put the dye in and used the refrigerant the first I brought it back (in April), but I guess that isn't standard procedure. Anyway, it sounds like it was the same situation, though my Sienna was about 12 years old at the time with about 175K miles. I would demand a refund for the $300 you paid for the refrigerant, however. Someone in this thread quoted language that says that if the refrigerant has to be replaced as part of a repair under the warranty, the cost of the refrigerant replacement is covered. Because it was ultimately a covered repair, you are owed a refund for anything you spent along the way to them finally finding and diagnosing it.
Yikes, I have an important meeting today, so by the time that I get to my Tuesdsy appointment, I will have 24,200 miles on the odometer.
Why didn't I check this thread a little earlier? I took an unnecessary 200 mile joy ride just a few days ago
I've never heard of a 24k mile cutoff for part of a car warranty in my life.
I'll share my dealership adventures with everyone.
I'm still in shocked disbelief over the $1800 cracked windshield in my Clarity. I'm delaying the $500 deductible until after Corona.
I had hoped that these expensive car repairs would not happen for a long while, since I decided to purchase a new car. I bought into the false security of what I thought was a good warranty. I can understand paying for a cracked windshield, but $1800 is absolutely insane. Even with my $500 deductible, it's crazy. I realize that other new cars have expensive windshields, but $1800?
Sorry to get off track, it stills burns me up to think of it.
Once again, I'll gladly post details of my dealer experience when I go in with 24,200 miles and an ac unit that is approximately 60% as cool as it was several months ago.
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Valente
Active Member
What they lied about was the first time I had AC problems in Sept 2019 was that there was no leak. They said refrigerant just evaporates sometimes. (How could it in a closed system?) 2 other dealers told me if it needs refrigerant then there's a leak especially in a newer car! Unocar Honda just wanted to gouge me $300. Then 6 months later AC breaks down again and they suddenly find out it's the evaporator core? Sounds suspicious.
My understanding is that gas will always escape from an air conditioning system at some rate, though it should be so minor as to not become a factor for many years. They probably weren't lying to you as much as they were ignorant and, more importantly, failing to check for a leak well enough. As new as your car was (and is), they should have immediately suspected a leak. They should have gotten up under the dash and used the additive and a sniffer to find the leak. I really think this is more incompetence and laziness more than trying to lie to you (not that it's much better). I would definitely be demanding a refund for the money you spent before. Now that they've determined it was a leak, they know that you should have never paid that. I kind of felt that way, too, when the same thing happened with my older Sienna, but the mechanic was a friend of mine and I knew he wasn't trying to rip me off. He just wasn't going as far as needed to find the leak.
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Slow leaks are very tricky to find. And, it is not unreasonable depending on the circumstances to just add some refrigerant. Suppose your car was 8 years old... If it leaked out over the course of 8 years, you could possibly get another 8 years with just a refill. So, sometimes it is reasonable to try that before going on a witch hunt looking for a tiny leak. Of course it is also possible that the 8 year old vehicle was leak free for 8 years, and then suddenly a large leak developed...
In your case however, with a vehicle that is only a couple years old, that is not a "small" leak, and it should have been investigated more thoroughly.'
In your case however, with a vehicle that is only a couple years old, that is not a "small" leak, and it should have been investigated more thoroughly.'