Clarity A/C problem (and warranty extension on pg 10)

[vicw]

Agreed... Well, it was worth a try, Here is the static data I have collected so far from a few others:
@sabase is completely dead, and @vicw is questionable.

If you get the opportunity, it would be worth checking the static pressure again at a higher ambient temperature. If the Freon is low, it will fall off of the curve at some point as the temperature increases. Perhaps that is what is happening with @vicw although his seems to be working.

Operational data may be useful, but all I have so far is a single data point... I had 140 psi with an outside temperature of 88 F and an inside set point of 75 F.
View attachment 11887

That's a good start on the data reported so far. I'm eagerly looking forward to reporting and seeing others showing more input showing the static and operational pressures at higher temps, but we are currently in a cool cycle this week, so I will have to be a bit patient on that.

There is one point that keeps confusing me, though. We are charting 'Outside Temperature' as a variable, which is self-explanatory, but the data being reported in Car Scanner shows it as 'Temp Out', which could be considered to mean the Temperature of the air coming out of the A/C system. Assuming it really does show the Outside Air Temp, renaming the variable in the Dashboard, perhaps as 'Outside Temp' would be helpful to avoid confusion.

The 'Inside Temperature' variable is shown by the Scanner app as 'Temp In' is less confusing, since it does reflect the air temp going into the A/C system from the cabin using either naming, but if the 'Temp Out' were to be renamed in the Dashboard as 'Outside Temp', renaming 'Temp In' to 'Inside Temp' would pair well with it, and avoid confusion.

 

[MrFixit]

but the data being reported in Car Scanner shows it as 'Temp Out',

The terms "Temp Out" and "Temp In" are "Short Names" that get displayed in the dashboards, etc. For each parameter (PID) there is a "Long Name", and a "Short Name". All of these names were just created by me so they are subject to interpretation by others...

For instance:
"Temp Out" has a long name of "Air Temp. Outside Vehicle"
"Temp In" has a long name of "Air Temp. in Vehicle".

If you are in doubt, it is possible that the Long Name will help clarify. If you look at Settings, Sensors, you can see them all. If you click in one, it will show you the Short Name.

10 different people might choose 10 different ways to name a given parameter. The point of the Short Name is that it is easier to fit on the graphical items.

I could be persuaded to change a name here and there, but don't want to introduce extra confusion by having different names for the same thing in different releases of the PID's.

 

[vicw]

Thanks for the clarification @MrFixit, confirming that 'Temp Out' is actually the 'Air Temp Outside Vehicle'. Good to know the Short Name/Long Name access, for future reference. Hope the weather warms up soon, to get more data with elevated temps.

 

[Gbuff]

I am getting my 2018 AC condenser fixed by Honda Canada (Ontario). I was a bit over the 60k warranty limit last spring when I had dealer check for AC problem. After refrigerant refill, condenser failure was confirmed. It was near the end of the summer that Honda agreed to take care of the repair, but part was back ordered. Obviously haven't needed the air conditioning through winter, so waited to call the dealer until this week. They have the part now and should be able to do the repair next week.

Another data point - the first warm day in Ontario - A/C blowing warm Just outside warranty which ended in March 2021 - still under the 60,000 km limit but warranty ends whichever is earlier. Not impressed. Has anyone in Canada had any luck with getting the repair done on Honda's nickel?

 

[MrFixit]

@Gbuff:
I am curious... See if you can get a look at the 'bad' condenser. If you ask, they should give it to you.

Some owners have experienced condenser "failures" that were clearly mechanical damage due to a stone or road debris.
The Clarity's front grill has large openings that expose the condenser to possible physical damage.

There is a product called ClarityScreen (https://voltshelf.weebly.com/) to help protect this area. I installed one quite a while back, and it is a very well done product.

 

[vicw]

There is a product called ClarityScreen ([URL]https://voltshelf.weebly.com/[/URL]) to help protect this area. I installed one quite a while back, and it is a very well done product.

Glad you shared this @MrFixit. I installed a similar screen on my old Honda Odyssey some years ago. I just ordered one for the Clarity, using the link you provided. I just hope I haven't already had any damage to my condenser.

 

[vicw]

Here's another Operating Pressure data point for my Clarity, with the car set at 75f.:

Outside Air Temp: 77f., Pressure 101.24 psi

Inside Air Temp was shown as 78.8f., but I really think the cabin was closer to the 75f. setting, and the system was outputting colder air. I think I'll start also using a thermometer on the output to gauge the A/C performance, especially as we will be getting higher temps. soon.

 

[MrFixit]

I'm going to maintain updates associated with measured A/C performance in this thread:
https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...port-adapter-to-check-air-conditioning.10941/

Trying to avoid having to double-post results...

 

[britanyweel]

I was asked what the problem was, and so it was necessary to clean the filter. The repairs there were minor, I was able to fix everything myself. In general, it reminded me of this funny story with my friend. He is installing hdb air conditioners in one company. He received the order and asked me to take him because his car was being repaired. Of course, I agreed, but it is not difficult for me to help him. We agreed to meet in a cafe, have a coffee with a croissant. We had a good break and were about to leave the cafe, but a dude ran out to meet us. It turns out that my friend forgot his documents in the cafe, if he loses them, he will be fired. You should have seen the face of my friend, how he was frightened and rejoiced at the same time.

 

[Fidzio]

I had the system checked by Honda and received the following report:
Check A/C . not Blowing cold air. system works but low on freon. Connect A/C machine and recover freon 0.120 kg. Vacuum and Recharge system. Check with A/C detector and found small stain on condenser . Recharged system to proper level and add dye. 0.445kg. Thank you again Mr Fixit for suggesting the Clarity Screen - I'm getting one.

 

[MrFixit]

Check with A/C detector and found small stain on condenser

@Fidzio - You gave us some nice OBD readings while you system was proven to be low... It would be very nice if you had a chance to get some equivalent readings now that your system is known to be good ! We can denote your readings on the spreadsheet to represent 'low' and 'normal' conditions somehow.

Did they replace your condenser? Where do you stand with respect to the warranty? Clearly you have a leak, and the condenser stain corroborates that diagnosis. Unless they are claiming that the condenser was physically damaged externally (for instance, hit by a stone), then I would think it is a factory 'defective' and should be covered by the warranty.

 

[Fidzio]

So I'm picking the car up this evening. I'll post the OBD readings later today or tomorrow. Escalated to Honda Canada as I'm just outside the 3 year warranty but under the 60,000km. Now waiting for their reply as to whether they'll pay for the repair. The dealer reloaded the system with a dye so I have an appointment next week to check leakage. It's likely that the condenser will have to be replaced and it'll take a week or two to get the part.

 

[Fidzio]

So I picked up the car and after recharge it blows cold again - phew! I'll need a new condenser and somebody will pay . . . .

Summary of refrigerant from dealer report:
Connect A/C machine and recover freon 0.120 kg. Vacuum and Recharge system.
Check with A/C detector and found small stain on condenser.
Recharged system to proper level and add dye. 0.445 kg

Numbers from Autel scanner are as follows: (note: when A/C is off the pressure drops and finally levels out - I don't have enough patience to wait more than a few minutes so the pressure may have dropped further. As they say YMMV )

A/C Pressure kPA (psig) OAT (from car dash display)
Before recharge OFF 391 (58) 15 deg C (59 deg F)
Before recharge ON 480 (70) 15 deg C (59 deg F)
After recharge OFF 675 (98) 30 deg C (86 deg F)
After recharge OFF 605 (88) 29 deg C (84 deg F)
After recharge OFF 546 (79) 28 deg C (82 deg F)
After recharge ON 941 (136) 28 deg C
After recharge ON 952 (138) 24 deg C (75 deg F) (this reading was taken after a short 5 min hop to the grocery store after pulling into the driveway)

I really appreciate this forum and everyone's enthusiasm.

Thanks

 

[MrFixit]

I don't have enough patience to wait more than a few minutes so the pressure may have dropped further

Stability is important (both for a static reading and for an operating one). When you turn the A/C on or off, the pressure changes don't take very long, but what takes longer is for the temperatures to equalize again. This is why it is best to take a static reading when you first enter the car after it has been sitting idle for a good while.

I added your data to the plot. "Before Recharge" measurements labeled 'fid-lo', and "After Recharge" measurements labeled 'fid-ok'. your operating pressure is dramatically higher than the "Before Charge" measurement.

With the limited measurements so far, I think we are seeing that the pressure should be in the 130-150 psi for a 'good' system while operating.

Static pressures should follow the curve. if your Freon is 'low', the static pressure will match the curve when the temperatures are low, but the pressure will fall below the curve as the temperature increases. Without enough refrigerant, you reach a temperature where all the liquid boils off and there is nothing but gas. Static pressure will fall below the curve and the system cannot work like this.

I am thinking that @Hoon and @vicw may have a problem. It will be interesting to see more data for them at higher ambient temperatures.

Here is a link to the plot for convenience:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...p6pGo8m97MPip9s97kPDQMqw4/edit#gid=2093521734

 

[JFon101231]

I think there is a lesson to be had here...

If you live in a 'colder' climate, you will go for many months through the Fall / Winter without ever turning on the A/C.
In @Fidzio 's case, the A/C was undoubtedly already dead while the warranty was still good in March...
But If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

This is a recurring theme where some poor soul discovers that the A/C is dead at the start of summer and it is just beyond the warranty period. Ideally Honda should offer some latitude in the event that the warranty expires in the dead of winter because there is no reasonable way to know whether it is still working. It seems they don't however.

A suggestion:
This keeps happening to people... Before your warranty expires, it makes a lot of sense to somehow test the A/C to see if it is still alive.

You are completely correct. My Clarity is now out of warranty, but the failure likely happened in the Fall/Winter though I have no proof. I'm at 43k now (driving about ~1200 mi/mo) and I'm likely up a creek for the bill even though it certainly seems these cars have a design defect - I usually drive my cars to 200k or more and have never had to replace AC components on a couple year old car.

 

[Fidzio]

I'm also out of warranty with 56k kilometers on the clock and waiting for Honda Canada to reply as to whether they'll cover the cost of repair. I expect an answer by next week.

 

[JJim]

FYI, I am also in Canada and had my condenser and some other parts replaced last week, it only takes 2 days for the parts coming.

It's likely that the condenser will have to be replaced and it'll take a week or two to get the part.

 

[StickWare]

I’m at 154K miles. Recently my AC died. It doesn’t blow real cold air. I took it to a garage and they told me I needed to take it to dealer


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[MrFixit]

I’m at 154K miles. Recently my AC died. It doesn’t blow real cold air. I took it to a garage and they told me I needed to take it to dealer

Well, it is quite likely you are facing a $1000+ repair bill. Please keep us posted as to what is found.
Based on the experience of others in the forum, a condenser failure is a primary suspect.

 

[StickWare]

Well, it is quite likely you are facing a $1000+ repair bill. Please keep us posted as to what is found.
Based on the experience of others in the forum, a condenser failure is a primary suspect.

I doubt I’ll get it fixed if that much. I’m not using this car


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