Buy Now or Wait for 2024

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I’ve bought plenty of junk made in the USA, and plenty of junk made in Germany, and plenty of junk made in China.
Where it’s made is of less concern than who specifically is making it.
It is the design, selection of parts and testing and quality control that ensure the quality, not the ethnicity/citizenship on the line screwing it together.
They behave no problem with a car made in China. Tesla’s made in Shanghai are of higher quality than those made in the USA.
 
In my professional life, I've worked with contract manufacturers in Asia, including China.

My experience is this: if the contracting company wants inexpensive, low quality products, manufacturers in China will happily make it for them. If the contracting company wants high quality products, manufacturers will also happily make it for them, at a higher price of course. Often the same manufacturer can supply both sets of products. At any given price/quality point, they can make it cheaper in China than in the US. This is due to factors including different prevailing wages, labor laws, environmental restrictions, etc....I won't get into the morals of all this.

The supposition that stuff made in China is necessarily low quality is a myth. It's up to the contracting company to decide what they want and how much they want to pay for it. If the product is low quality, it's not the fault of China or the Chinese manufacturer. It's a decision made by the contracting company.
 
My MA just emailed me this:
Good afternoon (SameGuy),

I hope you are doing well.

If your friend wants a MINI Cooper SE, I suggest we order as soon as possible.

MINI Canada will soon change the order. It will be standardized and no longer possible to select a personalized configuration.

You can ask him to call on my mobile : 514 555-1212.

Thanks.

Jonathan
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Uhhhhh…
 
Alf_W said:
At any given price/quality point, they can make it cheaper in China than in the US. This is due to factors including different prevailing wages, labor laws, environmental restrictions, etc....I won't get into the morals of all this.
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This has been, and continues to be, my reservation of buying anything made in China. You are right that the quality can be good from China. But those morals that you didn’t go into … those matter to me. And should matter to all of us.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
 
GetOffYourGas said:
But those morals that you didn’t go into … those matter to me. And should matter to all of us.
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You are correct - morals should matter. The problem is that there are moral issues everywhere. We assume that lower wages mean lower prices, but US wages don't necessarily mean lower prices. Some of us won't buy "American"-made cars because of the workmanship, and yet American workers complain about income not keeping up with the cost of living. Some of us won't buy Chinese-made cars because of the repressive government, and yet a growing number of American politicians are passing repressive laws. I guess the answer is for each of us to buy the car we feel is best suited for our particular needs. That's why I own a Mini SE.
 
Have you seen Chinese state-owned Comac C919 airplane? It's cutting edge and best in class!

I'm also curious to what agreements Tesla made with the SeeSeePee to get an early 4 year joint venture exemption before the full foreign ownership was allowed in China starting Jan 1, 2022. Hmmmmmm......
 
GetOffYourGas said:
This has been, and continues to be, my reservation of buying anything made in China. You are right that the quality can be good from China. But those morals that you didn’t go into … those matter to me. And should matter to all of us.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
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If we had morals we wouldn't be on this forum because we wouldn't have a computer, wouldn't have a cell phone, wouldn't have.... because it is from China.
 
Tommm said:
If we had morals we wouldn't be on this forum because we wouldn't have a computer, wouldn't have a cell phone, wouldn't have.... because it is from China.
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Vietnam for Samsung and India for Apple. Have you seen phenomenal build quality on Xpeng cars in China? Their self driving is #1 even better than Tesla.
 
Alf_W said:
Agreed they matter. However, it is such a complex topic, and everyone has their own viewpoints, standards, and biases....I thought it best to just leave it there instead of opening up a can of worms!
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Yeah, but consider can of worms opened...What is GOYG talking about?? What do people's, or a company's, or a society's morals have to do with a country?? While it's popular these days to hate on China, why would anyone ascribe the "morals" of the supreme leader to the public? They're just trying to make a living. They do far more with manufacturing at a much lower price than our "moral" Americans. Case-in-point: I despised the leadership that sent me into Iraqi "Freedom" a few years ago, but I did so to support my country and their service members. I was in Japan for 5 of my years in the Navy, and I can't tell you how many Japanese WWII vets, and their families, and their citizens were so magnanimous and were so welcoming. I met a kamikaze pilot who wasn't able to complete his mission, and his message was not to hate the soldiers, but fight against the policies. He sent his kids to the US for college, and held no grudge against the fact that the Hiroshima bomb killed everyone else in his family.

Yeah, I stepped on a pretty big soapbox there, and I'm sorry. But it's so important to not equate people with policy, or regime. How about less judg-y and more enjoy-y? If you want to support your country's manufacturing then buy from them!
 
Carsten Haase said:
MINI engineers with all of their resources should be able to do better than a couple of guys doing a retrofit.
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I very much agree with you, but as a practical matter I think it likely that MINI engineers addressing global market and engineering standards, varied local government regulations (including crash regulations), and etc. may have a lot of resources but also are hindered somewhat by many constraints that local DIY guys just don't have to face (or at least can far more easily ignore).
 
My feel is that the new one lost that European flair or the BMW aura. I would rather wait for when Fiat sells the 500e in North America than to get the next MINI EV. To be honest. I would pick the Fiat over today’s MINI too
 
Lol notwithstanding that the ICE 500 was the least reliable mass-market car in North America.
 
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SameGuy said:
Lol notwithstanding that the ICE 500 was the least reliable mass-market car in North America.
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I will add this---I had the electric Fiat 500e. Sold it when I got the MINI SE. That car was fine in terms of reliability, and I had no issues. I guess all the unreliable bits got replaced by the electric battery and motors from Samsung and Bosch!
 
drdunkyn said:
Yeah, but consider can of worms opened...What is GOYG talking about?? What do people's, or a company's, or a society's morals have to do with a country?? While it's popular these days to hate on China, why would anyone ascribe the "morals" of the supreme leader to the public? They're just trying to make a living. They do far more with manufacturing at a much lower price than our "moral" Americans. Case-in-point: I despised the leadership that sent me into Iraqi "Freedom" a few years ago, but I did so to support my country and their service members. I was in Japan for 5 of my years in the Navy, and I can't tell you how many Japanese WWII vets, and their families, and their citizens were so magnanimous and were so welcoming. I met a kamikaze pilot who wasn't able to complete his mission, and his message was not to hate the soldiers, but fight against the policies. He sent his kids to the US for college, and held no grudge against the fact that the Hiroshima bomb killed everyone else in his family.

Yeah, I stepped on a pretty big soapbox there, and I'm sorry. But it's so important to not equate people with policy, or regime. How about less judg-y and more enjoy-y? If you want to support your country's manufacturing then buy from them!
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I think you read a bit too much into my statements. I'm being very measured as I don't see any good coming from prolonged discussions on the topic of morals through the medium of an internet forum. We should all value things like good working wages and environmental protections for all people in our international human family.
 
Texas22Step said:
I very much agree with you, but as a practical matter I think it likely that MINI engineers addressing global market and engineering standards, varied local government regulations (including crash regulations), and etc. may have a lot of resources but also are hindered somewhat by many constraints that local DIY guys just don't have to face (or at least can far more easily ignore).
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Mini is a butcher car to make EV they did not remove a tunnel in a middle of a car using Cooper ICE design but Chinese design make a difference. Not for me I use a bicycle as I’m American
 
Smart Wannabe said:
My feel is that the new one lost that European flair or the BMW aura. I would rather wait for when Fiat sells the 500e in North America than to get the next MINI EV. To be honest. I would pick the Fiat over today’s MINI too
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Yeah, but you would even pick a 2-1/2 ton Taycan over today's roundabout-warrior MINI SE. The 2nd-gen Fiat 500e takes 8.7-9.2 seconds to get to 60 mph so it must be the Italian's appearance--not its performance--that attracts you.
 
Smart Wannabe said:
My feel is that the new one lost that European flair or the BMW aura. I would rather wait for when Fiat sells the 500e in North America than to get the next MINI EV. To be honest. I would pick the Fiat over today’s MINI too
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Wow you really hate this car! May I ask what you don’t like about it??

Meanwhile, I just placed an order on my second SE and it can’t get here soon enough.

I’ve driven just about every EV available in the US (notable exception: Rivian R1T). None of them are perfect, but the SE stands out to me as the most cohesive and charming product of the bunch. It’s got soul.
 
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