Battery warmer necessary in NJ?

E

EgonSpengler

New Member
Title says it. I'm considering an EV in New Jersey now that there's a state tax rebate on top of the federal. I like the Kona or Niro (want a Tesla but with fed phased out I can't justify the cost) but don't want to pay extra for the battery warmer if it's not necessary. My charging would primarily be at home (plan to install L2) and driving 120ish miles per day all on Turnpike (high speed for those not familiar). Only time I would need DCFC would be if I have to make an extra trip while at work during the day at which point the car would have been sitting at ambient temperature for several hours and I'd need to top off with DC. Any advice?

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I would recommend finding a Kia and a Hyundai specific forum and ask them. Living in North Alabama, we only have short periods below freezing and both of our EVs have sophisticated battery management systems. The BMW i3 was built and designed to work in European climates and metrics from Tesla shows it is very conservative.

My home EVSE (i.e., charger) records usage and when the temperature dips below 50 F, I'll typically see 1-2 kW in short session throughout the night with either car. Left unplugged, I'm seeing ~2-3% SOC loss per 10 days. So once a month, I put the BMW i3 on the charger so it has enough energy to keep the battery in a happy place. The BMW i3 is backup for our Tesla.

Bob Wilson
 
I live in the mountains in California at 4000 feet in the winter night time temps are n the 20's with highs in the low 40's though most of the day will be in the low to mid 30's. The Lowest this year was 14 degrees. I don't have a battery warmer and have had no problems charging. Unless extra trips are over 100 miles I don't think you will have a problem. If you leave with a full charge on extra trip days you should have around 150 miles when you get to work. If you can plug in at a level 2 charger at or near work you can easily top up in a couple of hours. After the trip plug in again for a few hours and you should be near full and ready for the drive home. If you want to use a DCFC you will still get at least 20 kw/hour even on cold days with out the battery warmer, That will give you around 70 miles in and hour. I am not sure that the battery warmer get you charged that much quicker. Now on a road trip with several DCFC in a day that extra time might add up but not for the occasional day trip a work.
 
To compliment @Fastnf, I would recommend using Plugshare.com and setting the filter for:
  • CCS-1 plug - this will map the fast DC chargers around your area and along any longer distance routes you might drive.
  • J1772 plug - this will show local, L2 chargers. Use the descriptions and comments to see if they might fill your 'around town' needs. I would eat lunch at free L2 chargers. They are also useful on a long trip to identify motels with chargers for overnight. Also, places to eat and charge on the road. Understand cross country travel using just L2 chargers is not worth it.
I would suggest, as an exercise, use the Tesla Supercharger plug to see what we use. My first EV was (is) a BMW i3-REx and benchmarks taught me the lessons I shared. When it came time to replace our last Prius, the Supercharger network was a powerful argument lacking only the relative cost per mile, $0.025/mi local charging and $0.035/mi Supercharger.

Bob Wilson
 
I live in Maryland and have an SEL. For your needs I’d say get the heater if it’s in your budget (is it only available on the upper models?)

For long-term battery health reasons, I try to keep my battery SOC between 20-80%. That works out to 160 miles, without cabin heat or AC, which is more than enough for me.

I’ll charge to 100% before long trips and wouldn’t feel comfortable going below 10%, so I consider my longest drive (without charge) to be 230 miles.

However, there’s a different limit to consider when using a DCFC. You can get decent fast charging up to 72 kW when the battery has a low state of charge (SOC). But above 72% SOC, charging rate drops dramatically to around 25kW, with further reduction after you pass 88%.

But there’s one more important factor to consider, and the reason YOU should get the battery heater for your needs: DCFC charge rates are limited by temperature, sometimes a lot:

<33F: max power 18 kW
33F-41F: max power 25 kW
41F-59F: max power 40 kW
59F-77F: max power 56 kW
> 77F: max power up to 77 kW

I’ll generally limit the DCFC charge to 72% so I can get back on the road sooner and save $ (especially at EA, a topic for another post). Allowing myself to get down to 10% for those long trips, I consider my DCFC range to be (in general) 10% to 70%, or 160 miles. Yes, this is a conservative self-imposed limit.

So it comes down to how much time you have to spare on those long trips. I’d probably get the heater. And avoid EA chargers if possible.


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Thanks and yeah for the Hyundai the battery heater is only on the middle and top tiers. I was trying to avoid that cost if I didn't need it since, as my commuter car, I am trying to save money and can do without some bells and whistles (not to mention now paying for 2 kids in daycare). Getting an EV would be a money saving venture for me in the long run due to the miles I'm racking up.

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EgonSpengler said:
Thanks and yeah for the Hyundai the battery heater is only on the middle and top tiers. I was trying to avoid that cost if I didn't need it since, as my commuter car, I am trying to save money and can do without some bells and whistles (not to mention now paying for 2 kids in daycare). Getting an EV would be a money saving venture for me in the long run due to the miles I'm racking up.
Click to expand...

The other thing to keep in mind is that the batteries tend to warm up when you are on long trips, and it is on long trips that you are most likely to want to use DCFC. The reason for the warming is that the car captures heat from the motor itself and uses that to warm the batteries. It isn't quite as effective as a straight resistive heater, but I have noticed it myself.
 
I love the car. One thing to keep in mind if you have a family is that the trunk space is small compared to most.


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Check the Kona forum. There’s a recent thread about heat pumps for cabin heat, where a user in Maine (NRH) speaks to the battery warmer question.


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I live in NJ and I got my Niro EV this weekend from MD. Every Niro that I have looked at has the cold weather - battery warmer - package included. I don't think I saw one without this add-on. Must be a NE thing.
 
When you say got from Maryland did you buy it there or was it sent to an NJ dealer from Maryland?
porky said:
I live in NJ and I got my Niro EV this weekend from MD. Every Niro that I have looked at has the cold weather - battery warmer - package included. I don't think I saw one without this add-on. Must be a NE thing.
Click to expand...

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I got mine from Buchanan Kia. I think I got a decent deal - about a grand under MSRP plus the two grand Kia Finance rebate.
 
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