Battery Swapping is key for cold weather

[OneEV]

We really need battery swapping to become the next big thing . That would immediately end cold weather issues. For me with a heated garage not a big deal but for tens of millions without ability to charge at home even then make sense.

really hoping nio eventually makes it to usa

 

[OneEV]

 

[OneEV]

And for road trips...! Back on the road in 5 minutes .

Each one of these holds roughly 20 batteries , busy locations could have 4 , 5 , 6 of these so swaps happening every few minutes.

 

[insightman]

We really need battery swapping to become the next big thing . That would immediately end cold weather issues. For me with a heated garage not a big deal but for tens of millions without ability to charge at home even then make sense.

really hoping nio eventually makes it to usa

There is so much frozen ice and mud under my EV right now. If I had a swappable battery, it would take a very long time to get it out and more time to make sure nothing nasty gets between the replacement battery and my car.

Getting carmakers to standardize on a swappable battery pack would seem to be a difficult task--how would they agree on a battery capacity? Owners of expensive EVs would have large-capacity batteries and owners of entry-level EVs would have batteries of lower capacity. Would a Bolt or a MINI have to provide space for the same battery used in a Ford Lightning or a Tesla Model S?

Then there's the potential for a swappable-battery EV owner to come out to their EV and find that catalytic-converter thieves have stepped up their game.

I believe battery technology will improve faster than a swappable battery standard could be realized.

 

[OneEV]

There is so much frozen ice and mud under my EV right now. If I had a swappable battery, it would take a very long time to get it out and more time to make sure nothing nasty gets between the replacement battery and my car.

Getting carmakers to standardize on a replaceable battery pack would seem to be a difficult task--how would they agree on a battery capacity? Owners of expensive EVs would have large-capacity batteries and owners of entry-level EVs would have batteries of lower capacity. Would a Bolt or a MINI have to provide space for the same battery used in a Ford Lightning or a Tesla Model S?

I believe battery technology will improve faster than a replaceable battery standard could be realized. Then there's the potential for a replaceable-battery EV owner to come out to their car and find that catalytic-converter thieves have stepped up their game.

Nio seems have it figured out...millions of battery swaps.

Also we will for at least the next decade never have enough dcfc ...30 new ev this year alone..another 1.5 million or so Evs on the road. Going to be a net loss of dcfc .


Umm yeah that's something I'd like to see, 2 hillbillies trying to crawl under a car and stead a thousand pond battery

 

[OneEV]

There is so much frozen ice and mud under my EV right now. If I had a swappable battery, it would take a very long time to get it out and more time to make sure nothing nasty gets between the replacement battery and my car.

Getting carmakers to standardize on a swappable battery pack would seem to be a difficult task--how would they agree on a battery capacity? Owners of expensive EVs would have large-capacity batteries and owners of entry-level EVs would have batteries of lower capacity. Would a Bolt or a MINI have to provide space for the same battery used in a Ford Lightning or a Tesla Model S?

Then there's the potential for a swappable-battery EV owner to come out to their EV and find that catalytic-converter thieves have stepped up their game.

I believe battery technology will improve faster than a swappable battery standard could be realized.

I'm searching for bio battery swaps in winter..wonder if they have heaters or what to remove ice from battery bolts ? Ill post if I find anything..

Btw...30 million battery swaps now.. !https://electrek.co/2023/10/09/nio-completes-30-million-global-battery-swaps-proving-viability/

 

[insightman]

I'm searching for bio battery swaps in winter..wonder if they have heaters or what to remove ice from battery bolts ? Ill post if I find anything..

Btw...30 million battery swaps now.. !https://electrek.co/2023/10/09/nio-completes-30-million-global-battery-swaps-proving-viability/

I'm sure they could use car-wash technology to melt the ice coating the chassis and then blow the underside dry, but that would add time.

Those battery swaps you cite are for a single manufacturer's vehicles. Would each manufacturer have to maintain their own battery-swapping stations? Installing a universal DCFC charging station looks much easier than that.

Don't sell the ingenuity of thieves short--especially for unguarded high-ticket items.

 

[OneEV]

I'm sure they could use car-wash technology to melt the ice coating the chassis and then blow the underside dry, but that would add time.

Those battery swaps you cite are for a single manufacturer's vehicles. Would each manufacturer have to maintain their own battery-swapping stations? Installing a universal DCFC charging station looks much easier than that.

Don't sell the ingenuity of thieves short--especially for unguarded high-ticket items.

Actually nio has deals for battery swapping with at least 4 other manufacturers. Including Jac and chery , geeky and changing https://www.electrive.com/2024/01/12/nio-sings-battery-swapping-agreement-with-jac-and-chery/

Its already proven technology.

The stations are movable, you can set them up anywhere. The 20 batteries are all slowed charged so they last longer and The stations are Now being set up in China as bidirectional where they feed the grid when needed !

 

[OneEV]

Older version swap station out of spec visited over a year ago ...he best comment..

chaukeram
1 year ago
I was watching your video and getting my Tesla charged… in 23 minutes I’m at 66% (started at 25%)… I’ll take a battery swap any day!
8
12

 

[OneEV]

Notice when Kyle asks the attending if most people swap or use the chargers he says most swap.

I know if I was road tripping that's what I would be doing...why would I sit at a diff for 30 minutes to get to 80% when I can swap and get 90% battery in 5 minutes

 

[OneEV]

Especially in winter ! Which was my main focus...The Teslas in Chicago taking 1 and 2 hours too charge..

 

[bwilson4web]

It is easier to lease an EV than just lease a battery. Or in my case, pay a onetime fee until my EV goes to the salvage yard or next owner. Leasing a new EV means not only a better battery, battery management, and battery chemistry but also improved total vehicle systems. There are manufacturing saving too. For example, making the battery part of the vehicle crash structure:

This approach radically reduces the labor cost of making an EV. The battery pack and seats can be assembled on all sides without workers stumbling over each other. The empty hole in the bottom makes installation of interior wiring, HVAC, and safety equipment much easier than trying to noodle them through the doors:

No, I prefer my vehicles to be fully integrated from design, manufacturing, and operation. I buy them knowing it is a snapshot of EV technology the day it was made. So the battery swap approach has no appeal.

Bob Wilson

 

[insightman]

Actually nio has deals for battery swapping with at least 4 other manufacturers. Including Jac and chery , geeky

Its already proven technology.

The stations are movable, you can set them up anywhere. The 20 batteries are all slowed charged so they last longer and The stations are Now being set up in China as bidirectional where they feed the grid when needed !

If Nio and the other Chinese companies end up ruling the EV world, perhaps their collaboration can create a single battery that fits all of their cars. However, I don't see Nio's swappable battery taking the EV world by storm the way Elon's NACS charging connector has. High-end and low-end EVs will always be using batteries of different capacities.

Swapping may be proven technology, but it's expensive technology. I'm ancient and remember when every gas station had attendants who filled your tank, checked your oil, and washed your windshield. Those attendants had to be paid by the gas station and so they're now history in most places.

Can a battery-swapping station be completely automated? Even if a battery-swapping station could be completely automated, compare the cost of such a station to the cost of a you-plug charging station. I can't see how the cost to the EV owner would be even close. If the battery-swapping station requires an attendant, the cost of swapping is even greater.

What is the benefit of battery-swapping stations being moveable? What the stations would need to be is numerous and ubiquitous. The argument that charging stations aren't numerous or ubiquitous enough right now does not suggest that battery-swapping stations solve that problem because battery-swapping stations cost more and require more maintenance than simple charging stations.

The idea that there would be cheaper-than-charging battery-swapping stations everywhere that would always have the single battery every EV is forced to use would be a difficult dream to realize. It would require an authoritarian govenment to enact and enforce, and not all authoritarians are pro-EV.

 

[OneEV]

The idea that there would be cheaper-than-charging battery-swapping stations everywhere that would always have the single battery every EV is forced to use would be a difficult dream to realize. It would require an authoritarian govenment to enact and enforce, and not all authoritarians are pro-EV.

Single battery not required , you can have has many different as you want not sure why you think it has to be "single battery" from one company... You can have has many different batteries as you like you just need a STANDARD for connections. kind of like all Gas Pumps require standard nozzles . (Not like Tesla that is going to own the entire charging network with NACS)


BTW Ample in the United States also provides swappable batteries ..They are working with GM, Ford stellantis Fisker etc... Currently there main focus are fleets where "fast charging' isnt fast enough. Specifically Uber drivers ..


In the US, Ample has already been working with Uber since 2020 to “participate as a key partner in Uber’s global electrification strategy”. Specifically, Ample provides Uber drivers in California with its battery-swapping technology

Instead of California they need to bring that to the COLD Upper Midwest .. that would be awesome to get all the rideshare drivers that dont have home charging from clogging up the dcfcs and battery swapping is a way to do that.

 

[bwilson4web]

If we had human sized, battery modules in the 20 kG (~44 lbs) size that could be swappable by the owner, it might be interesting.

So around town, carry just enough for say 100 miles range and the rest in a benign for battery life state. Then when I want to do long distance travel, load up the car.

In effect, a human sized, set of batteries. They could line the outside of the EV also solving the battery fire problem with an emergency quick release.

After all, Nio has proven that power and coolant quick releases work great. Just make human sized batteries and the problem is solved.

Single, mechanically removable batteries are not appealing.

Bob Wilson

 

[Puppethead]

Battery swapping may be possible for smaller vehicles like scooters/motorcycles, but I don't see it as practical for large vehicles. If you think waiting for a charger is bad, think of how many swapping stations would be needed to service hundreds of thousands of large EVs traveling the highways and byways of North America. It's like visiting a Jiffy Lube, but doing it on a daily basis (or more if traveling cross-country!). Not to mention the enormous costs of maintaining inventory of replacement batteries at each of these locations. And @insightman's thievery concern is well-founded.

 

[insightman]

Single battery not required , you can have has many different as you want not sure why you think it has to be "single battery" from one company... You can have has many different batteries as you like you just need a STANDARD for connections. kind of like all Gas Pumps require standard nozzles .

Not from one company, but only one standard capacity. Otherwise, the swapping stations will have to stock as many different capacity batteries as anyone might want? That makes the swapping-station model much more problematic. "Sorry, Mr. Tesla S, that Bolt just took our last battery with more than 60 kWh."

 

[marshall]

Battery swapping may be possible for smaller vehicles like scooters/motorcycles, but I don't see it as practical for large vehicles. If you think waiting for a charger is bad, think of how many swapping stations would be needed to service hundreds of thousands of large EVs traveling the highways and byways of North America. It's like visiting a Jiffy Lube, but doing it on a daily basis (or more if traveling cross-country!). Not to mention the enormous costs of maintaining inventory of replacement batteries at each of these locations. And @insightman's thievery concern is well-founded.

I agree. Battery swapping can work for scooters in counties where scooters are the primary means for transportation.

You might be able to make a case for cross country trucking and municipal busses if they can standardize on the size, connections, and software.

The capital costs are too high for these to be profitable in the USA. Heck, the current fast chargers are not likely profitable in most locations.

 

[bwilson4web]

Let's take a look at a practical version of swappable batteries. I use 80VDC Greenworks batteries:

The extended run battery, 288 Wh, is on the left. The smaller 144 Wh batteries are on the right. But the right most one failed.

The problem is one or more cells have started corroding:

These are 18650 cells that I could buy on eBay for ~$40. Add to that a battery tab, spot welder, and a couple of hours and the 144 Wh battery would recturn to service.

Instead, I bought a new, 21700 cell, 288 Wh battery, $400, that is the same size as the original, small 144 Wh battery packs. Lighter than the large, extended run battery, it makes a lot of sense over several years of operation.

Fitting the 21700 cells in the same dimensions as the original 18650 cells is a neat trick. But 18650 cell chemistry has improved. The originals appear to be 2500 ma cells and I see 3000-3500 ma cells available. It makes more sense to let battery technology continue to improve and replace the failed 18650 with higher energy density, LiON cells within a year. So how does this relate to 'battery swapping?'

Notice the overhead of swappable battery packs. This adds weight and non-payload volume to the vehicle. These parasitic loads on the EV reduces their range and efficiency. They carry around extra structure. In contrast, the structural battery pack weights only as much as the minimum number of parts needed.

So I add swappable battery packs to hydrogen fool cells as another, dead-end technology. In PowerPoint or user forums, sounds GREAT. In real engineering, something less.

Bob Wilson

 

[OneEV]

Battery swapping may be possible for smaller vehicles like scooters/motorcycles, but I don't see it as practical for large vehicles. If you think waiting for a charger is bad, think of how many swapping stations would be needed to service hundreds of thousands of large EVs traveling the highways and byways of North America. It's like visiting a Jiffy Lube, but doing it on a daily basis (or more if traveling cross-country!). Not to mention the enormous costs of maintaining inventory of replacement batteries at each of these locations. And @insightman's thievery concern is well-founded.

Nio has already done over 30 MILLION battery swaps , wait times are not an issue. The Battery swap stations have 20-30 batteries and takes 5 minutes to swap. The Swap Stations are modular and you cna set up as many as needed per location.

Think about this ..

At present, a swap takes place on average, every 1.6 seconds. NIO’s Third Generation Power Swap Station, capable of 408 swaps per day, up 30 per cent on today’s capacity, entered service this month.


capable of 408 swaps per day per station !