Angry Bees uphills

[Phil_Meyers]

Our Clarity almost has 10K miles on it. This car will quickly get a work out, as we drive about 40K a year. We charge at home and at work. By the time we get to work, the battery is drained and I drive in on gas. On the way home it's a little different because the battery is drained just before the ascend into the mountains, so we get pretty bad angry bees going home up the hills. I generally don't want to fiddle around with the modes too much, figuring the car will figure things out, so I generally just leave things alone. However, my wife says "it sounds like the engine is about to explode". Too bad Honda didn't isolate/insulate the engine noise a little better. HV mode when the battery is below half still seems to bring out the angry bees. Any other advice?

 

[Carro con enchufe]

Our Clarity almost has 10K miles on it. This car will quickly get a work out, as we drive about 40K a year. We charge at home and at work. By the time we get to work, the battery is drained and I drive in on gas. On the way home it's a little different because the battery is drained just before the ascend into the mountains, so we get pretty bad angry bees going home up the hills. I generally don't want to fiddle around with the modes too much, figuring the car will figure things out, so I generally just leave things alone. However, my wife says "it sounds like the engine is about to explode". Too bad Honda didn't isolate/insulate the engine noise a little better. HV mode when the battery is below half still seems to bring out the angry bees. Any other advice?

When I have an uphill like that, I use HV on the initial drive to keep the battery range at 20+ miles so I can speed up the hill stealthily at 70mph in EV

 

[tim]

When I have an uphill like that, I use HV on the initial drive to keep the battery range at 20+ miles so I can speed up the hill stealthily at 70mph in EV

That's also my basic strategy. I use EV in city driving and switch to HV on the highway. In the city, EV is quiet and good for acceleration. On the highway, the road noise makes EV and HV equally noisy. When I know I have enough EV range left to get all the way home, I switch to EV.

 

[Dan Albrich]

So my specific case, had tons of "Angry Bees" for months. Folks in these forums didn't understand me; I mean to say that it was not a common experience. KentuckyKen at one point suggested I "reboot" the car by removing a 12v battery lead, wait a little bit, and re-attach. After you do this, you see a bunch of scary warnings but if you drive the car normally 10-15 miles (or fewer) the warnings all go away, and things go back to normal.

So I'd suggest:
1) reboot your car.
2) no matter circumstance, if you get down to 10 EV estimated miles, press HV. In my Clarity's case there is still a big difference between driving in HV mode with some EV range left and letting EV go to 0. And yes, my goal state is always avoid EV going to 0 (save the case where I'm on my way home or close to charging).

Also, nowadays, anytime I drive, if I know I must significantly exceed EV range, I just start out in HV mode. And if I lend the car to a family member, I have them press HV before each drive to avoid explaining how to best drive the car. If one has EV range, HV mode is pleasant (or should be).

Hope this helps. -Dan

PS: And as stated before, my feature request for HV mode that it simply remain 'sticky' like Economy mode does. i.e. if the last time I drove, I was in HV, just leave that. If HV was off last time, leave that.

 

[CyberDyneSystems]

Definitely agree that it's time to lose your fear of messing with modes, and start your home bound commute in HV mode. I find HV on the flat highway is pleasant enough, usually devoid of "angry bees". The electric motor is simply more powerful and smoother to drive in demanding situations, so saving some "juice" for your uphill climb is a good way to go.

 

[markc]

If you know you are going to exceed your electric range (I use 47 as a baseline in warm weather, 35 in cold) then spend your highway miles in HV, saving the battery for the last few miles in local travel. The Clarity is designed for optimum performance when the gas engine and eletric motor can complement each other. Performance suffers when there is not enough energy in the battery for the electric side of the equation.
All that said do not worry about high revs from the gas engine. These engines have inherited a lot of tech from both Honda's racing program (about 1/2 of Indy cars use Honda 2.2L V6 engines which can rev to 12,000 rpm) as well as decades of high-revving motorcycle engines (which can redline at 14,000 rpm). The engineers know what they are doing, the engine will not damage itself.

 

[Agzand]

Not sure how long the climb is, just keep some EV miles and climb in EV mode. That is the only way to completely eliminate high reving engine. Depending on slope you might need to keep range of 1.5 to 2 times the actual slope length to account for higher usage.

 

[stacey burke]

Anytime that I have a trip longer than the EV range I drive in HV. That keeps the charge high and no angry bees. When you get within the EV range switch back to EV.

 

[css28]

If you find yourself depleted of battery range several miles before a big climb, do a long press of the HV button for HV Charge mode to build it up.
In the Chevrolet Volt this was called Mountain Mode for that reason.

 

[BeMurda]

It should be noted, though I think you know this, that the high revving engine is completely normal too. But other people have given you good advice here.

 

[Agzand]

Anytime that I have a trip longer than the EV range I drive in HV. That keeps the charge high and no angry bees. When you get within the EV range switch back to EV.

In general this is correct, but it also depends on road conditions. I had several occasions when I had a good charge in the battery and still got very high revs. This happens on steeper and slower roads, when the engine cannot connect directly to front wheels. This happened to me on Hwy 89 (Monitor Pass). Going up at 8300 ft elevation at 35 mph was a noisy affair, and I had about 70% left in the battery.

 

[ClarityBill]

This happened to me on Hwy 89 (Monitor Pass). Going up at 8300 ft elevation at 35 mph was a noisy affair, and I had about 70% left in the battery.

At slightly higher speeds, you can 'reset the HV mode'. Do this by pressing the HV button twice, about 2 seconds apart. You want to go out of HV mode, and then back in, without shutting off the engine. This resets the SOC target, and allows the rpm's to drop.

The battery charge will drop from 70%. When you lose about 2 miles of EV range, the rpm's will rise again, and you can do another reset. Resetting whenever the rpm's start to rise, will maintain a quiet ride in the car.

I am wondering if it is actually possible to keep the engine running through the reset at low speeds. Does anyone know if this works at speeds this slow?

 

[Agzand]

At slightly higher speeds, you can 'reset the HV mode'. Do this by pressing the HV button twice, about 2 seconds apart. You want to go out of HV mode, and then back in, without shutting off the engine. This resets the SOC target, and allows the rpm's to drop.

The battery charge will drop from 70%. When you lose about 2 miles of EV range, the rpm's will rise again, and you can do another reset. Resetting whenever the rpm's start to rise, will maintain a quiet ride in the car.

I am wondering if it is actually possible to keep the engine running through the reset at low speeds. Does anyone know if this works at speeds this slow?

Yes, this will work but it is more like a band aid solution. I wish the car had an additional mode where you could use both power sources together, I would call it mountain mode where the engine provides 2/3 and the battery 1/3 of propulsion, letting you drive about 100 miles using combined power. That should be enough to cross any real world mountain range. Since such a mode is not available, if I do this route again, I will just use EV for that section.

 

[Dan Albrich]

One thought I've had with my Clarity-- i.e. when family come to visit, and want to borrow a car. Just tell them to press HV before selecting D for Drive. Yep the car will burn gas in HV mode, but it's a simple way. I'm almost surprised Honda's engineers didn't default to this. Anyway, that gives you a normal hybrid car with 40mpg, which is still nothing to sneeze at.

Those with more experience may find themselves doing some things to optimize, and even enjoy doing so. That being said, not everyone wants to think about optimizing their fuel economy and I respect that.

For the car owner, you probably want to learn enough to do a little optimization. But yes, for an occasional user there's no need to get into the details.

 

[insightman]

One thought I've had with my Clarity-- i.e. when family come to visit, and want to borrow a car. Just tell them to press HV before selecting D for Drive. Yep the car will burn gas in HV mode, but it's a simple way. I'm almost surprised Honda's engineers didn't default to this. Anyway, that gives you a normal hybrid car with 40mpg, which is still nothing to sneeze at.

I believe that HV isn't the default and isn't sticky after you shut off the car for EPA testing reasons. However, if I was loaning out my Clarity, I wouldn't deny the borrowers the joy of driving under EV power. If they're going to drive it so far that they'll be hearing engine noise anyway, why not delay it as long as possible?

 

[Dan Albrich]

If they're going to drive it so far that they'll be hearing engine noise anyway, why not delay it as long as possible?

My Clarity may not be the same as others. It really isn't a pleasant experience to drive anytime EV range = 0. There is no comparison with my Clarity between say 10 EV remaining with HV mode, vs forced HV mode (when EV=0). I don't think this is every Clarity owners experience but it has been mine.

If it were the case that there was no difference, running in HV vs. just automatic HV (due to EV=0), then I'd definitely agree.

 

[RickSE]

I don’t like using HV when I’m not on the highway. On city roads the engine noise is annoying, although part of my annoyance is probably because the EV mode is so quiet. On the highway the ambient noise level, including my radio, easily drown out the engine noise in HV.

 

[fotomoto]

I generally don't want to fiddle around with the modes too much,

If pushing a button twice on the return leg is too much to ask, then you're SOL.

 

[bpratt]

Two years ago I took my 2 month old Clarity from Salt Lake City to Las Vegas. The speed limit for about 75% of the trip is 80 MPH and another 20% it's 75 MPH. A lot of the trip is at altitudes above 4000 feet and some is above 6500 feet. I started with a full charge and set HV mode when I hit the freeway. My EV range started at 60 and until it hit 40 the engine was fairly quiet. After that and for maybe 70% of the trip I had angry-bees. I never had a chance to charge the car, so the trip home was the same angry-bees as the trip down. The EV range slowly decreased the entire trip and I arrived home with 17 miles of EV range left.
At the end of this month I am going to take the same trip again and I'll try hitting the HV mode twice, then to EV mode and then back to HV mode.

 

[KClark]

Two years ago I took my 2 month old Clarity from Salt Lake City to Las Vegas. The speed limit for about 75% of the trip is 80 MPH and another 20% it's 75 MPH. A lot of the trip is at altitudes above 4000 feet and some is above 6500 feet. I started with a full charge and set HV mode when I hit the freeway. My EV range started at 60 and until it hit 40 the engine was fairly quiet. After that and for maybe 70% of the trip I had angry-bees. I never had a chance to charge the car, so the trip home was the same angry-bees as the trip down. The EV range slowly decreased the entire trip and I arrived home with 17 miles of EV range left.
At the end of this month I am going to take the same trip again and I'll try hitting the HV mode twice, then to EV mode and then back to HV mode.

I've driven from LA to St. George UT on I15 3 times since I got my Clarity 13 months ago. The first two times I observed the behavior you noted. Last time I experimented with HV charge mode on some of the flat stretches and it worked really well. I got back a charge equivalent to about 35 miles and I didn't see a drastic change in gas mileage. Keeping the charge level higher seemed to make a more pleasant trip on some of the uphills.