AC usage in summer

J

Jose Moreira

New Member
Have you noticed any significant impact on range, by using AC in summer?

In my Mini (this is my first summer with it), I can see a drop in the predicted range of 5 to 10 km, by just putting the AC on.

Then, it looks that after all, one has impact on range both in winter by using heating and in summer by using AC, what makes me wonder, what's the point of the OEM's stating that a car has a certain range, as stated in their documentation.

After all, if one buys a car with 500 km of range, it actually is only usable on a daily basis for maybe around 300 km. Such difference coming from never achieving WLTP/EPA range, using car conditioning (both pre conditioning and actual conditioning during use of the car) and the recommendation to use the car between 80% and 10% of state of charge.

I really would say, that OEM's need to made to state the claimed range in a more truthful way, as I think that just increasing battery sizes to give usable ranges equivalent to ICE cars, is not the way to go.
 
Running the heat pump for both heat and AC hasn't been a big hit for us. We always see at least EPA range with heat or AC running. We see a larger range drop from the wet roads over running the HVAC (increased rolling resistance). But the U.S. EPA figures are more conservative over other posted range figures abroad.

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There is also no way to program a maximum state of charge, nor does Mini recommend against charging to 100%. At least for the North American model, we can only charge to 100% evey day. This battery has some upper and lower battery buffers, charging to "100%" is below 100% of actual capacity. A feature that isn't available for many other EVs where battery buffer protection falls on the owner with manual selection.

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Zim said:
There is also no way to program a maximum state of charge, nor does Mini recommend against charging to 100%. At least for the North American model, we can only charge to 100% evey day. This battery has some upper and lower battery buffers, charging to "100%" is below 100% of actual capacity. A feature that isn't available for many other EVs where battery buffer protection falls on the owner with manual selection.

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Even if Mini claims that there is no problems to always charge to 100% (I hope that's true in the long run, fingers crossed), such is not practical if one depends on public DC charging, or then DC charging on the go on a road trip (where, 80% to 85% is almost a must, as going beyond that, is very time consuming).

Like so and unless one only uses the car on the range from 100% to 10% (for example for commuting) with the ability to charge on AC overnight (for example, at home), the usual useful range that one gets from an EV, is only around 70% of its claimed range/battery capacity.
 
Jose Moreira said:
Like so and unless one only uses the car on the range from 100% to 10% (for example for commuting) with the ability to charge on AC overnight (for example, at home), the usual useful range that one gets from an EV, is only around 70% of its claimed range/battery capacity.
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70%? I respectfully disagree, unless your assertion applies to other EVs. I don't think it applies to the Mini SE use case. Over 9,000 miles on the SE, and my average calculated range is running at 125 miles, or 110% of EPA 114 miles. And in SC I run the A/C on auto mode 100% of the time, so the A/C gets used a lot.
 
GvilleGuy said:
70%? I respectfully disagree, unless your assertion applies to other EVs. I don't think it applies to the Mini SE use case. Over 9,000 miles on the SE, and my average calculated range is running at 125 miles, or 110% of EPA 114 miles. And in SC I run the A/C on auto mode 100% of the time, so the A/C gets used a lot.
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70% refers to a generic case of usage of the car (not only the Mini), not for specific cases. Also 70% in the generic case, refers to the battery capacity, not what which one of us can draw from it in terms of driven distance.

Please remember for generic use, one should avoid to go below 10%, not to risk to not get to the next charging station, and also is not practical to go above 80% of charge (on public DC charging), as one will then spend much more time charging, than actually driving.
 
Jose Moreira said:
In my Mini (this is my first summer with it), I can see a drop in the predicted range of 5 to 10 km, by just putting the AC on.
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I've been putting over 80 miles a day on my SE with temperatures above 90 ºF this week, and the constant A/C usage (let's say two hours of drive per 80 miles) has dropped my range average from about 5.2 mi/kWh to 5.0 mi/kWh.

I'm still seeing total range way above the EPA rating, so I have no complaints.

Here's a comparison of my range in two different temperatures, the second one with heavy A/C use:

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Jun 6, 2022 at 18:54 ** 71.6°F ** Wind: 4.971 mph from N ** Humidity: 42% ** Driven: 84.7 Mi ** Start-Batt: 100% ** End-Batt: 47% ** Mi / kWh: 5.53 ** GOM Reading: 50 Mi ** Range Left: 75.11 Mi ** Total Range (From 100% charge): 159.81 Mi ** Total Range (From 100% charge): 159.817 Mi

***********************************
Jun 14, 2022 at 18:59 ** 91.4°F ** Wind: 11.185 mph from SW ** Humidity: 44% ** Driven: 95.3 Mi ** Start-Batt: 100% ** End-Batt: 36% ** Mi / kWh: 5.15 ** GOM Reading: 41 Mi ** Range Left: 53.58 Mi ** Total Range (From 100% charge): 148.88 Mi ** Total Range (From 100% charge): 148.835 Mi
 
Puppethead said:
***********************************
Jun 6, 2022 at 18:54 ** 71.6°F ** Wind: 4.971 mph from N ** Humidity: 42% ** Driven: 84.7 Mi ** Start-Batt: 100% ** End-Batt: 47% ** Mi / kWh: 5.53 ** GOM Reading: 50 Mi ** Range Left: 75.11 Mi ** Total Range (From 100% charge): 159.81 Mi ** Total Range (From 100% charge): 159.817 Mi

***********************************
Jun 14, 2022 at 18:59 ** 91.4°F ** Wind: 11.185 mph from SW ** Humidity: 44% ** Driven: 95.3 Mi ** Start-Batt: 100% ** End-Batt: 36% ** Mi / kWh: 5.15 ** GOM Reading: 41 Mi ** Range Left: 53.58 Mi ** Total Range (From 100% charge): 148.88 Mi ** Total Range (From 100% charge): 148.835 Mi
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Those are really good numbers. What wheel/tire combination are you using? Is that in green mode or green plus?
 
Cheap Sunglasses said:
Those are really good numbers. What wheel/tire combination are you using? Is that in green mode or green plus?
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  • 17" Power Spoke with Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 3 205/45R17 (stock tires).
  • Mid mode driving.
  • Average speed is around 60 mph, mostly freeway (60-70 mph limit) with some highway (55 mph limit) and a little bit of surface street.
  • Cruise control (non-adaptive, this is a 2021) used as much as possible on the freeways/highways.
As for calculation accuracy, it seems right to me. My car actually goes as far as the MINI SE Range Calculator indicates. As you can see, after my 95 miles of driving I still had over 35% SoC left. Also, I have driven over 38,700 miles in the SE.
 
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Jose Moreira said:
70% refers to a generic case of usage of the car (not only the Mini), not for specific cases. Also 70% in the generic case, refers to the battery capacity, not what which one of us can draw from it in terms of driven distance.

Please remember for generic use, one should avoid to go below 10%, not to risk to not get to the next charging station, and also is not practical to go above 80% of charge (on public DC charging), as one will then spend much more time charging, than actually driving.
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Charging at home it fantastic, and the ideal situation for frequent EV driving. However, depending on the EV, 10% could mean as little as 5 miles or as much as 50 miles. Many gasoline cars will consider 50 miles usable range without any fuel warnings whatsoever. Total battery voltage and specific thermal management systems also play a significant role in charging speeds at DC fast chargers. The old rule to avoid charging above 80% or discharging below 10% should be tossed in reference to individual operating manuals, or are they called owner's handbook IDK

Our other car is an e-Niro, personally, the range is complete overkill for us. Charging to 60-70% will be sufficient for an infrequent 140 mile roundtrip commute, year round in the Pacific Northwest, while offering over 10% at the end. We can travel 250-300 based on efficiency calculations and the season, if needed.

Not to say we never drive below 10% We have on numerous occasions. But one should avoid keeping the vehicle unplugged below 10% for extended periods of the time. The software in the Mini will also override charging delays to bump up the battery to around 12% or so, then shuts off until scheduled charging. If you experience prolonged periods (unplugged) below 10% frequently, I'd consider that a valid concern.

Going back to that 10-80% hype. The e-Niro is recommended to charge to 100% periodically. Probably for proper battery cell balancing. I do not recall Kia recommending against charging to 100% frequently, but hey, they only have to honor the 8 year battery warranty, there are little to no battery buffers on Kia products that I'm aware of.

As a whole, battery cell chemistry, construction, thermal management and BMS software has come a long way since 2010.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
 
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