A01 Advice

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Timothy

Timothy

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We finally got our "Service Due Soon." We'll get our tire rotation and our oil change (which we likely don't need). Do folks have a list of the fixes we should be asking for? I know we should get the HV mileage estimate fix but I am pretty sure that there have been posts about others fixes in the last few months. I don't necessarily trust the dealer to do things that I have not asked for. Thanks for any help with this you all can give.

Maybe this list could be added to the pinned post?

20181228_081646.webp
 
When did you purchase the car? And what’s your mileage?


I think I’m close to getting that message too, I bought it on 5/31 and have put 5,100 miles on it. I am not sure to ask for the updates or just tell them to do what my VIN number says it needs. I have read that some of the updates have changed the behavior of their clarity for the worse. I know that KentuckyKen hasn’t done any of the changes except for the HV range so I’m on the fence. Let us know what you decide to do and update us with the aftermath, good luck!
 
Alex0913 said:
When did you purchase the car? And what’s your mileage?
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We've had our Clarity since the beginning of February and it has about 6.9K miles. Also I see the long list of things the will be "inspected" during this service, have folks been charge for that (our dealer gives us a free oil change and tire rotation)?
 
I currently have an A1 service as well. I took an oil sample and am going to send it to a lab today.

I have used about 18 gallons of gas in the last 7200 miles. The cars manufacture date is in Apr 2018. It has not reach its 12 month oil life. Its ridiculous to change the oil after just 18 gallons of gas. A normal car should burn about 220 gallons between oil changes. I think my lawn mower might be more green then the Clarity is just because of oil changes.

I am going to go get the oil changed because of the warranty and try to talk to them about the issue again. I don't expect the Honda dealers to be helpful, as they haven't been last time I asked about this.

When the lab report comes back, I will take it to the dealers and ask for a refund for the unnecessary oil change. Tell them to address the issue. I will send a copy to corporate by certified letter with a letter explaining the problem. Then I will add a copy of both to a folder for a possible small claims court case in the event its all ignored.

While this issue is 'small' it affects the value of the car. It affects the warranty of the car and the total cost of ownership. It adds to the things that the owner needs to track when Honda says they have all of that handled using the Maintenance minder. Its an advertise feature that doesn't work as advertised. Honda needs to address that.
 
A dealer or manufacturer cannot mandate that service only be done through them to maintain a warranty in force, unless that service is provided for free.

So, oil changes done elsewhere or by an owner will not void a warranty, as long as the work was performed properly and documented.

Federal law on the issue explained here:

https://www.autoanything.com/popups/MossWarranty.aspx
 
My belief is that oil and filter change flags (the "A" in that code) are triggered whenever another upcoming service event is triggered, unless you reach the 12 month date on the same oil when it will flag for that service no matter what (and the probably the oil should be changed every 12 months, no matter how much the ICE is used). I believe the service trigger for most people is the the required tire rotation (the "1" in the code), which sets off the service notification somewhere in the 6xxx miles range. At that point, it will flag an "A1" or an "A01" (the "0" includes checking and topping off all fluids, checking brakes for wear, suspension linkages, etc.).

So since I am swapping onto snow tires today (~3xxx miles on the odometer), I will reset the tire rotation counter on the maintenance minder, and again when I switch back to the OEM tires in April. If my guess is correct, then it should not flag for an oil change until late summer when I get into my 11th month, and it should flag for "A0" service. In 3000 miles I have only used up about 10 gallons of gas.

I think if I keep up with this routine and roughly this amount of miles/month, then it should only require oil changes every 12 months.
 
Ray B said:
My belief is that oil and filter change flags (the "A" in that code) are triggered whenever another upcoming service event is triggered, unless you reach the 12 month date on the same oil when it will flag for that service no matter what (and the probably the oil should be changed every 12 months, no matter how much the ICE is used). I believe the service trigger for most people is the the required tire rotation (the "1" in the code), which sets off the service notification somewhere in the 6xxx miles range. At that point, it will flag an "A1" or an "A01" (the "0" includes checking and topping off all fluids, checking brakes for wear, suspension linkages, etc.).

So since I am swapping onto snow tires today (~3xxx miles on the odometer), I will reset the tire rotation counter on the maintenance minder, and again when I switch back to the OEM tires in April. If my guess is correct, then it should not flag for an oil change until late summer when I get into my 11th month, and it should flag for "A0" service. In 3000 miles I have only used up about 10 gallons of gas.

I think if I keep up with this routine and roughly this amount of miles/month, then it should only require oil changes every 12 months.
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Please keep us informed on the results of your "routine", this may be the work around I have been looking for to avoid excessive oil changes without risking the warranty. If I can delay oil changes to once a year with no regard for ICE miles I will be happy. From other posts on this subject I believe once you get the maintenance minder notice to change oil there is no way to delay that maintenance. But since you are resetting the "schedule" BEFORE the maintenance minder is triggered I'm hoping the oil change gets delayed until the next tire rotation or inspection maintenance. Keeping my fingers crossed.
 
Timothy said:
We finally got our "Service Due Soon." We'll get our tire rotation and our oil change (which we likely don't need). Do folks have a list of the fixes we should be asking for? I know we should get the HV mileage estimate fix but I am pretty sure that there have been posts about others fixes in the last few months. I don't necessarily trust the dealer to do things that I have not asked for. Thanks for any help with this you all can give.

Maybe this list could be added to the pinned post?

View attachment 3205
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Just noticed your 898 mile range. Lol.
 
Claire Green said:
Please keep us informed on the results of your "routine", this may be the work around I have been looking for to avoid excessive oil changes without risking the warranty. If I can delay oil changes to once a year with no regard for ICE miles I will be happy. From other posts on this subject I believe once you get the maintenance minder notice to change oil there is no way to delay that maintenance. But since you are resetting the "schedule" BEFORE the maintenance minder is triggered I'm hoping the oil change gets delayed until the next tire rotation or inspection maintenance. Keeping my fingers crossed.
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Will do.

I just put the new snow tires + wheels on and reset the maintenance minder for "1" (tire rotation). The 'Service Due' changed from '5 months' to '7 months'. That would put the next service at ~11 months of age for the car. However, I think that once again it is estimating 7 months based upon ~1000 miles per month and the next tire rotation would then be due at that time (roughly 7500 miles per rotation). But I plan to swap back to the OEM tires in April (and rotate their locations) and again reset the "1" on the maintenance minder and I think that ought to push the next service to the 12 month anniversary and trigger an 'A0'. I think I will also reset the "0" since I have done almost all of the items it listed and even took notes and pictures. So I think my only service at the 1 year date should be an oil + filter change.
 
Ray B said:
Will do.

I just put the new snow tires + wheels on and reset the maintenance minder for "1" (tire rotation). The 'Service Due' changed from '5 months' to '7 months'. That would put the next service at ~11 months of age for the car. However, I think that once again it is estimating 7 months based upon ~1000 miles per month and the next tire rotation would then be due at that time (roughly 7500 miles per rotation). But I plan to swap back to the OEM tires in April (and rotate their locations) and again reset the "1" on the maintenance minder and I think that ought to push the next service to the 12 month anniversary and trigger an 'A0'. I think I will also reset the "0" since I have done almost all of the items it listed and even took notes and pictures. So I think my only service at the 1 year date should be an oil + filter change.
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I wonder if the dealer can access the maintenance minder to see if any service has been reset. This would be the only way they can deny warranty if I keep pushing the oil change notification back by resetting tire rotation and maintenance inspection. I hope the system only records ignored notifications or delayed maintenance service. Your "service due" changing from 5 months to 7 months gives me confidence that this is the workaround I've been looking for to avoid the excessive oil change requirement without running into warranty issues.
What do you guys think?
 
So no doubt the HV range is wildly inaccurate, but prior to all the software patches I was getting higher estimated electric range. All the patching 'feels' like it reduced my electric range- which I cannot verify now. I will say for sure, my estimated electric range went down. And my actual range is very close to my estimated. So did they simply improve these estimates? i.e. had I driven before on my longer electric range, would it have matched actual, or did they just make the estimate more realistic?

I'll never know. If I had it over again to do, for me personally, I might of just left some of the patches undone. Now if you require the use of public charging stations then you'll likely need at least 18-079 to avoid the system power error. I think my electric range went down when I had them apply 18-097 (later version of patch for public charging stations).

-Dan
 
Claire Green said:
I wonder if the dealer can access the maintenance minder to see if any service has been reset. This would be the only way they can deny warranty if I keep pushing the oil change notification back by resetting tire rotation and maintenance inspection. I hope the system only records ignored notifications or delayed maintenance service. Your "service due" changing from 5 months to 7 months gives me confidence that this is the workaround I've been looking for to avoid the excessive oil change requirement without running into warranty issues.
What do you guys think?
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If the warranty requires the dealer to change your oil, they would have to include that for free. (It doesn't). You can change your own oil and reset it yourself. Just make sure you keep receipts of the oil and oil filter you bought.
 
Claire Green said:
I wonder if the dealer can access the maintenance minder to see if any service has been reset. This would be the only way they can deny warranty if I keep pushing the oil change notification back by resetting tire rotation and maintenance inspection. I hope the system only records ignored notifications or delayed maintenance service. Your "service due" changing from 5 months to 7 months gives me confidence that this is the workaround I've been looking for to avoid the excessive oil change requirement without running into warranty issues.
What do you guys think?
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If someone were to reset the MM 1 without really rotating the tires, I suppose if the Honda service people knew about it then it would affect only the warranty of the tires. I doubt they could extrapolate that to rejecting otherwise valid warranty claims on drivetrain components or EV components. In my case I think I have enough detailed notes, receipts, and pictures of my DIY service, that I can justify the MM 1 reset. And probably the MM 0 reset for that matter.

Anyway, I think if you have the ability to rotate the tires (or swap out snow/summer tires) then the reset of MM 1 should extend the oil service to its natural maximum whether triggered by the 12 month or actual miles. The car will notify if the oil should be changed, and that is all that matters with regard to warranty on those related items, if you ask me. The car just keeps bundling the oil change with the tire rotations, which becomes crazy for people who put so few miles on the engine. So Honda really needs to revisit the MM system on the Clarity to give it a more thoughtful approach to maintenance.

Also, the manual actually tells you how to reset the MM codes, and they wouldn't show you that if it was improper to do so.
 
My plan is push back oil and filter change to once a year irregardless of ICE miles and get it done by the dealer so there's a record of it getting done when the notification shows up. I have always done my own oil and filter changes in my other cars and I plan to do so on the Clarity when the warranty is up. Once a year I check for tire wear and rotate as necessary to even out tire wear on all four tires. What worries me is if they question the higher miles than what they're used to with other Clarity on their database. All I can do is play ignorant and blame it on the maintenance minder. As long as they can't prove I'm pushing back the oil change interval by resetting tire rotation and vehicle inspections then I'm not in violation of warranty terms.
 
Claire Green said:
My plan is push back oil and filter change to once a year irregardless of ICE miles and get it done by the dealer so there's a record of it getting done when the notification shows up. I have always done my own oil and filter changes in my other cars and I plan to do so on the Clarity when the warranty is up. Once a year I check for tire wear and rotate as necessary to even out tire wear on all four tires. What worries me is if they question the higher miles than what they're used to with other Clarity on their database. All I can do is play ignorant and blame it on the maintenance minder. As long as they can't prove I'm pushing back the oil change interval by resetting tire rotation and vehicle inspections then I'm not in violation of warranty terms.
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Kudos...right there with you except I'm not playing the MM games.

As long as a Clarity owner can document ICE miles using a logical method and keep good documentation...there is no reason to change oil in this car more often than every 12 months... period.

Since I can document less than 40% ICE usage...I will base oil changes on 15,000 miles on odometer or 12 months...which ever comes first. Why 15,000 miles? If I figure 40% ICE usage as worst case that equates to 6,000 miles on ICE...pretty simple. No playing games or trying to out maneuver Honda USA.

This way I'm straight up about it with nothing to hide or be ashamed off. Bottom line is the Honda MM may work fine for ICE vehicles...on the Clarity it's proving to be pretty useless for oil change interval recommendations.

Tire rotations are the least of my concerns relative to Honda USA warranty issues. Too many variables but suffice it to say once a year or sooner as needed.

Everyone will deal with this according to their comfort level and that's the way it should be. No harm, no foul as the old saying goes.

Good luck
 
Got notice of A01 service. With less than 7,000 miles total and less than 1,000 in HV, why should oil be changed, unless the oil is shared with the transmission? Anyone know about that?
 
bobcubsfan said:
Got notice of A01 service. With less than 7,000 miles total and less than 1,000 in HV, why should oil be changed, unless the oil is shared with the transmission? Anyone know about that?
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Not shared. Page 492 of the Owners Manual says
Specified fluid: Honda ATF DW-1 (automatic transmission fluid)

There are a few threads related to the unreasonably short oil-change intervals. Here's @KentuckyKen's original:
Let’s get the oil change interval bug fixed
 
Still in learning mode.

I thought there was no transmission, per sé. Are we discussing oil for some other kind of gearbox or transfer case? The Owner’s Handbook doesn’t seem to specify.
 
With respect to the oil change interval and the maintenance minder, two things should be remembered. First, the oil and filter change time interval of one year is a general automotive standard. Even Mobil One Extended Performance and Annual Protection motor oils have a one year change interval. Second, the Clarity's internal combustion engine works much harder than the ICE's in most other automobiles. When the ICE is running, the required output (throttle position) is near the maximum at a given rpm (unless in warm up or idle mode) so as to give a high charge rate to the battery and/or adequate power to the wheels (direct drive mode). The ICE also works at a relatively high rpm most of the time (about 1700 rpm at 45 mph and 2600 rpm at 70 mph in direct drive mode and usually well over 3000 rpm when in battery charge mode). In other words, the Clarity ICE works at a high load nearly all of the time. The 3.5 quarts of oil get quite a workout (as does the ICE). Yes, the oil change maintenance minder often comes up before a year and we do not know its algorithm. However, the algorithm seems to take into account the running time, work load history, and temperature history of the ICE as well as trying to minimize dealer service instances. The one year change interval, even with very low miles, is not unreasonable at all.

LeoP
 
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