A new kind of range anxiety

jdonalds

jdonalds

Well-Known Member
Are you finding the same?

The 47 mile EV range of the Clarity makes it quite easy for us to drive for days or weeks without the ICE kicking on. Most of our single trips are about 30 miles duration. We plug in at home, then might take another 20-30 mile trip later in the day. All of course on EV. This has become our style of range anxiety.

It's like a game not to run out of battery power. We are treating the car as if it is a BEV for weeks at a time, reluctant to do anything that would kick on the engine. I've tested the accelerator, when the car is parked and turned off, to feel the mechanical detent after which the engine would start. But I've not, in over 1,100 miles of driving, pushed the pedal down that far when driving because I like the purity of driving only on the battery power.

Before I jump in the car to head to the hardware store I check the HondaLink app to see what the state of charge is before heading out to the garage. Even though the hardware store is only about 6 miles round-trip I certainly don't want that gas burner to come on.

By the way the 2005 4Runner sits for days at a time. There's no way we want to, unless we absolutely have to, drive a car that only gets 13 mpg.

What fun this car is and I do so love driving on electric only.
 
That's funny. I had not read that article.

Charging at public charge stations, unless free in some cases, is expensive though. Every station I've looked at is not only higher in cost than at home, but most of the time it's higher than paying for gas for the ICE. So to me this shows Volt drivers are more interested in driving in electric mode than they are saving money on fuel.
 
Speaking of range anxiety, here’s something I’m trying to understand and get a handle on.

Since we’ve had our Clarity, we’ve had temperatures that ranged from about 50 to a low of 11. At 50, the Clarity showed an electric range of 45, close to its rated 47.

However at the lower temperatures, our topped off electric range has been 35, an almost 25% reduction!

Now contrast that with our Tesla. At the 50F temperature I had a range of 221 miles (with a setting of 90% of battery capacity). However at 11F, the range dropped only 2 miles to 219, a drop of less than 2%. That’s a huge disparity between two cars that both use lithium ion batteries.

The cars are in our non-heated garage, with temps that ranged from 50F-46F. I keep both cars plugged in until they are used.

I’m sure there’s an explanation for it, but the Tesla, at least on the surface, seems to have batteries that are more ‘willing’ to take a full charge regardless of temperature whereas the Clarity is not.
 
You won't know true range anxiety until you're 50 miles from Las Vegas with 20 miles showing on the Tesla range-o-meter, you're headed uphill, and you're praying for some downhill to regen. LOL
 
Ken7 said:
Speaking of range anxiety, here’s something I’m trying to understand and get a handle on.

Now contrast that with our Tesla. At the 50F temperature I had a range of 221 miles (with a setting of 90% of battery capacity).

I’m sure there’s an explanation for it, but the Tesla, at least on the surface, seems to have batteries that are more ‘willing’ to take a full charge regardless of temperature whereas the Clarity is not.
Click to expand...

That could be a piece of the answer. I suspect the Clarity is topped out at 80% capacity - that would be the safe call for Honda. Also, I am not entirely confident in the range estimates on the Clarity. We haven't been told much about how they are calculated. In any case, the cold temps you all are getting right now are not going go play nicely with EVs - just as the sometimes hotter than hades temps we can get out here can create problems with expected range.
 
bfd said:
You won't know true range anxiety until you're 50 miles from Las Vegas with 20 miles showing on the Tesla range-o-meter, you're headed uphill, and you're praying for some downhill to regen. LOL
Click to expand...
I would never cut it that close without knowing there’s a nearby SC. ;)
 
Ken7 said:
I would never cut it that close without knowing there’s a nearby SC. ;)
Click to expand...

That's what I used to say. LOL Took a side trip - thought we'd be OK, didn't figure in the temperature/terrain factor. We made it - Las Vegas has two SCs.
 
bfd said:
That could be a piece of the answer. I suspect the Clarity is topped out at 80% capacity - that would be the safe call for Honda. Also, I am not entirely confident in the range estimates on the Clarity. We haven't been told much about how they are calculated. In any case, the cold temps you all are getting right now are not going go play nicely with EVs - just as the sometimes hotter than hades temps we can get out here can create problems with expected range.
Click to expand...
But if it’s topped out at 80%, that would be true at both 50F and 15F. My point was the range reduction is about 25% between those two temperatures in the Clarity and less than 2% in the Tesla. So there’s something very different in how both cars take a charge in cold weather.

A range reduction of 25% is a lot.
 
bfd said:
That's what I used to say. LOL Took a side trip - thought we'd be OK, didn't figure in the temperature/terrain factor. We made it - Las Vegas has two SCs.
Click to expand...
That’s also why my wife wanted a PHEV for our 2nd car. She wasn’t comfortable with 2 all electrics. I had suggested the Model 3 (who knows when we would have gotten it), but she liked the idea of the Clarity.

I hate to say it, but she’s probably right. ;)
 
Ken7 said:
But if it’s topped out at 80%, that would be true at both 50F and 15F. My point was the range reduction is about 25% between those two temperatures in the Clarity and less than 2% in the Tesla. So there’s something very different in how both cars take a charge in cold weather.

A range reduction of 25% is a lot.
Click to expand...

The Clarity range algorithm would have to be the same as the Tesla algorithm - otherwise the range estimate is not comparing exactly the same thing. If you can get a voltage reading, that would be better.
 
Ken7 said:
Speaking of range anxiety, here’s something I’m trying to understand and get a handle on.

Since we’ve had our Clarity, we’ve had temperatures that ranged from about 50 to a low of 11. At 50, the Clarity showed an electric range of 45, close to its rated 47.

However at the lower temperatures, our topped off electric range has been 35, an almost 25% reduction!

Now contrast that with our Tesla. At the 50F temperature I had a range of 221 miles (with a setting of 90% of battery capacity). However at 11F, the range dropped only 2 miles to 219, a drop of less than 2%. That’s a huge disparity between two cars that both use lithium ion batteries.

The cars are in our non-heated garage, with temps that ranged from 50F-46F. I keep both cars plugged in until they are used.

I’m sure there’s an explanation for it, but the Tesla, at least on the surface, seems to have batteries that are more ‘willing’ to take a full charge regardless of temperature whereas the Clarity is not.
Click to expand...

The heater uses 6kWh regardless it has 12kWh battery or 85kWh battery.

6 kWh is 50% of the battery in a Clarity.
6 kWh is 7% of the battery in a Tesla.
6 kWh is .6% in Tesla semi.
 
bfd said:
The Clarity range algorithm would have to be the same as the Tesla algorithm - otherwise the range estimate is not comparing exactly the same thing. If you can get a voltage reading, that would be better.
Click to expand...
I’m finding the Tesla & Clarity are not significantly different in terms of the range stated and the miles you get, assuming a similar driving style...certainly not a 25% difference.

I think it’s simply the cold battery of the Clarity not accepting a charge anywhere near what the warmer battery would. Of course that’s true of any rechargeable battery, but cold temps really seem to impact the Clarity’s battery.
 
JyChevyVolt said:
The heater uses 6kWh regardless it has 12kWh battery or 85kWh battery.

6 kWh is 50% of the battery in a Clarity.
6 kWh is 7% of the battery in a Tesla.
6 kWh is .6% in Tesla semi.
Click to expand...
That could be part of it, but if you turn off the HVAC, the range estimate doesn’t change. On my Sonata PHEV, turning off the HVAC would cause the range estimate to immediately increase 2-3 miles toward its rated range of 27.
 
Tesla probably preheats the battery prior to leaving, I do not believe that the Clarity does. This might have an impact on that range number. As others say, climate usage will affect both, so the Tesla is still taking a hit in cold weather. Did you actually try driving the Tesla 220 miles, or was it just guessing the range and you are driving say 20 miles?

This weekend the high temp is 0 F with a low of -20 F. Burning a lot of gas. I notice the Clarity will stay in EV mode when I leave the house, but when I park and get back in it tends to go to hybrid mode. This is actually better, at 0F I found my Volt is horribly inefficient. My range in my Volt is as low as 15 in this weather with a rated 35. My Clarity is showing 24 miles range (better vs rated than the Volt).

For example, these Tesla drivers are losing up to half their range in similar weather to what I am seeing with my Clarity (so comparable).
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/cold-weather-range-loss
 
jdonalds said:
...to me this shows Volt drivers are more interested in driving in electric mode than they are saving money on fuel.
Click to expand...

Indeed!

And that's why I get a bit irked at EV "purists" who write as if the only "real" EVs are BEVs. PHEVs are EVs too, and many if not most of those who drive PHEVs are every bit as concerned about not using gas as BEV drivers!

Okay, down off my soapbox now. :)
 
jdonalds said:
Are you finding the same?

The 47 mile EV range of the Clarity makes it quite easy for us to drive for days or weeks without the ICE kicking on. Most of our single trips are about 30 miles duration. We plug in at home, then might take another 20-30 mile trip later in the day. All of course on EV. This has become our style of range anxiety.

It's like a game not to run out of battery power. We are treating the car as if it is a BEV for weeks at a time, reluctant to do anything that would kick on the engine. I've tested the accelerator, when the car is parked and turned off, to feel the mechanical detent after which the engine would start. But I've not, in over 1,100 miles of driving, pushed the pedal down that far when driving because I like the purity of driving only on the battery power.

Before I jump in the car to head to the hardware store I check the HondaLink app to see what the state of charge is before heading out to the garage. Even though the hardware store is only about 6 miles round-trip I certainly don't want that gas burner to come on.

By the way the 2005 4Runner sits for days at a time. There's no way we want to, unless we absolutely have to, drive a car that only gets 13 mpg.

What fun this car is and I do so love driving on electric only.
Click to expand...

Hi jonalds: Thanks partly to your posts I picked up a Crimson Clarity Touring today, just like yours.
I drove it about 40 miles from the dealer (on electric) and it is now snugly charging in my garage. I am impressed with the interior electronics thus far.
 
Johngalt6146 said:
Hi jonalds: Thanks partly to your posts I picked up a Crimson Clarity Touring today, just like yours.
I drove it about 40 miles from the dealer (on electric) and it is now snugly charging in my garage. I am impressed with the interior electronics thus far.
Click to expand...
Congratulations on your new car. I really like the looks of the car in the crimson color, black looks great too. After 1,100 miles I really like this car a lot. I'm sure you'll enjoy yours. I think Honda has a hit with this car.
 
The dealer told me that he thinks mine is the first sale in SC. I think it will do well here, since I see a fair number of Teslas around.
 
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