28% more expensive to plug in than gas up

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Geor99

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I have had my car for several months. I find a full charge to give me almost exactly the same distance as a gallon of gas. The distance is very close, although gas wins by a mile or 2.

With my watt-o-meter it takes at least 16kwhr to go from 0 to full. It's actually a little more, but let's round down.

San Diego power prices just jumped to 25 cents per kWh. 24 with a plan. Gas is $3.13 today. So, 16*.25/3.13 is 1.28.

28% more to plug in.

Yes, many have free work charging, ev is a quieter ride , less pollution , etc.

But for people in the region, it's a rich man's luxury to jack up their commuting costs almost 30%.

So the Government jacks up the price of power to subsidize renewable energy , but removes the economic incentive to drive an ev by a staggering amount, 30%.

So if money is tight, Clarity owners in the region will not bother to plug in. It is nice to have the option, though.
 
Where I am on the east coast (PA) electricity is 12 cents and gas is $2.50 per gallon or less. In our case to plug in is 30% less than gas. But, our gas prices are higher than some areas.
 
mpeters42 said:
Central Ohio here.

When we got the Clarity last June, the calculation was 30 - 40% cheaper on electricity than on gas.

Now, with the winter range drop and cheaper gas, it's probably 10 - 15% more on electricity.

In summer it'll flip back.

That's fine. We didn't get the Clarity to save money.
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I guess that my point was, how the hell can it cost a dollar for 4 measly kwhrs of power?

We need to get those damn fusion reactors working. There are 2 in the city being worked on to no avail, yet:)
 
First off, sorry to hear how expensive power is where you live. I guess you can take heart in that you have options. The Clarity also gets good gas mileage. I guess if gas goes to $4 or more (by your estimate), you can go electric again. Worst case, maybe consider selling it to someone who has lower cost electric rates (i.e. in Oregon or Washington).

With national gasoline costs low, it does hurt the argument for EVs and PHEVs. For most of us it's just less savings, but still some savings over gas. As you know, these things do tend to flip around over time. I wouldn't be surprised to see gas go over $4 again too.

Since I got the car, I've given a lot of thought as to if to recommend. It gets tricky as the cost-benefit varies (as you note). Also if I knew going in I'd be driving 100% on gas, the cost benefit wouldn't be worth it to me. I just mean that Clarity does seem to require some electric charge even to do HV well, which is an unnecessary hassle for an all gas user.

Best of luck in whatever you decide. i.e. keep the car, or get rid of it.

PS: and maybe too involved, but you may be able to invest in a home solar rig to get your power-cost down.
 
During the summer, when gas was more expensive and EV is much more efficient than winter, EV cost 1/6 as much as gas. I think it was only about half during the polar vortex. Our electric rates are low here. Because I use so little gasoline, I'm secretly hoping that gas prices will skyrocket.
 
Did they remove that super off peak plan of 9cents? I am from north cal but have a friend there.

Personally an electric car like clarity just on operating costs is not that far better than Accord hybrid. Once a car reaches 35mpg in a city any mpg gains make no sense from financial standpoint.
 
Geor99 said:
I have had my car for several months. I find a full charge to give me almost exactly the same distance as a gallon of gas. The distance is very close, although gas wins by a mile or 2.

With my watt-o-meter it takes at least 16kwhr to go from 0 to full. It's actually a little more, but let's round down.

San Diego power prices just jumped to 25 cents per kWh. 24 with a plan. Gas is $3.13 today. So, 16*.25/3.13 is 1.28.

28% more to plug in.

Yes, many have free work charging, ev is a quieter ride , less pollution , etc.

But for people in the region, it's a rich man's luxury to jack up their commuting costs almost 30%.

So the Government jacks up the price of power to subsidize renewable energy , but removes the economic incentive to drive an ev by a staggering amount, 30%.

So if money is tight, Clarity owners in the region will not bother to plug in. It is nice to have the option, though.
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You will need to go to TOU 5 rate plan from SDGE where the electricity charge is 9 cents per KWH, if you use those rates, electricity is much cheaper than gas. You will have to charge your car during the nights though
 
I was more railing about the unintended consequences of government intervention. My roof and backyard look like a cross between a junkyard and a science experiment with my solar panels and windmills.

I spend far more than 25 cents with all of my fun, power producing projects.

With the sky high price of power, they are supporting ice vehicles.
 
Living in St Louis here, my electric rates are 8.5 cents a kwh. I think I calculated something like gas would have to be like 1.2 a gallon for it to be cheaper than electric.
 
Geor99 said:
I was more railing about the unintended consequences of government intervention. My roof and backyard look like a cross between a junkyard and a science experiment with my solar panels and windmills.

I spend far more than 25 cents with all of my fun, power producing projects.

With the sky high price of power, they are supporting ice vehicles.
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Now tell us how much your net cost was after the federal tax credit, the state rebate, any rebate from the local air quality district and any power company rebate.

Some folks are reporting some pretty remarkable net cost figures.
 
Rebate from the local air quality district and any power company rebate?

I'm completely ignorant of these. Are these applicable in Socal? Perhaps not, as my previous exhaustive Google research came up empty, but certainly correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Otherwise , I'm at $34k- 7500-1500= $25k, 100% all-in with taxes, registration, etc for a basic model. I also charge at work for free.

Once again, I'm more commenting on a skewed power market potentially reducing ev demand in the region than my specific situation.
 
TIger said:
You will need to go to TOU 5 rate plan from SDGE where the electricity charge is 9 cents per KWH, if you use those rates, electricity is much cheaper than gas. You will have to charge your car during the nights though
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There are acronyms here that I don't know, but are you saying that the OP could pay only 9 cents off-peak?
 
Geor99 said:
I was more railing about the unintended consequences of government intervention. My roof and backyard look like a cross between a junkyard and a science experiment with my solar panels and windmills.

I spend far more than 25 cents with all of my fun, power producing projects.

With the sky high price of power, they are supporting ice vehicles.
Click to expand...
@Geor99, please tell me about your windmill(s). Vert or horiz axis? What kind of power are you able to generate? Initial Cost/kwh generated? Approx payback in years? Pictures? You can DM me since we are off topic, if you wish.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Inside EVs mobile app
 
You pay a $16 monthly surcharge and it's from midnight-6am, I believe. Go to the Ca ev rebate site for the link.
 
Geor99 said:
Rebate from the local air quality district and any power company rebate?

I'm completely ignorant of these. Are these applicable in Socal? Perhaps not, as my previous exhaustive Google research came up empty, but certainly correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Otherwise , I'm at $34k- 7500-1500= $25k, 100% all-in with taxes, registration, etc for a basic model. I also charge at work for free.

Once again, I'm more commenting on a skewed power market potentially reducing ev demand in the region than my specific situation.
Click to expand...
https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/ev/incentives/local-rebates
 
Here in Florida, gasoline is $2.26 per gallon and electricity is 11 cents per kilowatt-hour. The Clarity is rated at 47 miles per charge and 42 mpg combined. If it takes 16 kilowatt-hours to charge the Clarity battery, EV driving costs only 70% that of HV driving, by my calculation. This is pretty close to the information on www.fueleconomy.gov for the Clarity PHEV. ($1.01 to drive 25 miles on electricity versus $1.34 to drive on gasoline only; 75%)
 
Richard_arch74 said:
@Geor99, please tell me about your windmill(s). Vert or horiz axis? What kind of power are you able to generate? Initial Cost/kwh generated? Approx payback in years? Pictures? You can DM me since we are off topic, if you wish.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Inside EVs mobile app
Click to expand...

My payback is probably infinity:) I have 3 of them up to tinker with. I can dig up the datasheets and a run down of my performance over the weekend, if you're interested.

But if you are 100% dollars and cents, I think that you will struggle to beat the power company with small windmills.

My wife hates them and thinks they're ugly. I have actually rigged mine to come down and up in seconds for when we have visitors.

I'm also 100% off-grid with my power production. I have grid power, but I don't mix the 2; as I don't want the inspections, permits, etc.

It's legal as long as you don't interact with the grid in any way. I have a giant battery system.

It's a money sink. It's for fun only. I can't beat the grid with battery storage, yet. The batteries lose the cost battle.

If I were grid tied, Id win. I definitely dont break the law and "gorilla" connect . I want no chance of harming a line employee.

So, I'm off grid with my "fun" systems.
 
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