2019 Niro EV reduction gear noise

H

Hoodoo_operator

New Member
I have a 2019 Niro EV that has abnormal reduction gear noise per technical service bulletin 234

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10191531-0001.pdf

The abnormal noise is exactly like what is shown in the video for reduction gear noise.

I just came back from the dealership, where I was informed that this repair would not be covered under warranty because I'm the second owner.

My question is, has anyone had experience getting this repaired outside of warranty, and what was your experience? Is there a major risk with this issue, or can repairing it be delayed? Isn't this something that should be covered by a recall, since it's due to a manufacturing defect? Can this repair be done by a shop other than the dealership?
 
I guess my other question is, is the car safe to drive? I assume of this was a flaw that caused some sort of catastrophic failure, Kia would have to do a recall, but this is Kia so maybe they're just being cheap.
 
I missed it, because the gearbox noise I'm hearing is definitely not a tapping or creaking noise. Frankly, it sounds almost like an ICE engine.
 
Hoodoo_operator said:
I just came back from the dealership, where I was informed that this repair would not be covered under warranty because I'm the second owner.
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I suggest trying another dealership. KIA has a 10 year, 100,000 mile powertrain limited warranty. If the TSB has not been rectified, KIA corporate must get involved.

*In my experience* Hyundai/KIA Dealers are interested in selling, not servicing EVs.

https://kia-motors.pissedconsumer.com/customer-service.html
 
Hoodoo_operator said:
I missed it, because the gearbox noise I'm hearing is definitely not a tapping or creaking noise. Frankly, it sounds almost like an ICE engine.
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Well, that's close enough as there's nothing else it can be. Can you contact the Kia importer directly? Having an audio recording of the noise will help. Are you certain you don't have a powertrain warranty? I'm assuming you're in the US, you didn't say. In any case, this is a common enough issue that they should cover at least the parts bill. You might get more time out of it with an oil change but it won't resolve the problem.

To answer your actual question, one Niro owner has repaired the gearbox while two owners in EU countries have repaired their Hyundai Ioniq, the same basic design. It's 'just' a matter of replacing the bearings in either the motor or gearbox. The gearbox is also not that expensive to purchase outright from a parts shop.
 
I am in the US, but I'm the second owner so the warranty get's dropped from 100,000 miles to only 60,000 miles, and the car has 71,000 miles on it. Both the dealership and Kia corporate have confirmed that the car is out of warranty. The dealership also tried to tell me that the motor and gearbox aren't part of the powertrain, which was frustrating. Kia corporate did give me a case number, for what that's worth, but basically told me to have the car diagnosed and fixed at the dealership and then try to follow up with maybe getting some kind of partial reimbursement from them possibly, which would cost several thousand dollars that I'm not really able to spend right now, and leave me without a car for weeks.

I feel pretty comfortable changing the oil on an ICE vehicle, so I'm sure I can change the gear reduction oil myself, but anything beyond that I would prefer to leave to a professional.

Right now I think my plan is to change the oil and just keep driving the car, and hope that the gearbox is pretty resilient and won't give out on me. This really is something that seems like it should be a recall fix, because the solution of "we'll issue a TSB and fix it under warranty" doesn't really work now that a lot of these cars are on the used market and have no warranties.
 
Hoodoo_operator said:
The dealership also tried to tell me that the motor and gearbox aren't part of the powertrain, which was frustrating. Kia corporate did give me a case number, for what that's worth, but basically told me to have the car diagnosed and fixed at the dealership and then try to follow up with maybe getting some kind of partial reimbursement from them possibly, which would cost several thousand dollars that I'm not really able to spend right now, and leave me without a car for weeks.
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That is pretty disturbing if true. I am glad I got my Kona fixed early on with the just faint ticking at low speeds. Although I do remember the dealer telling me not to worry as the 5 year year power train warranty will protect me.
 
Hoodoo_operator said:
...The dealership also tried to tell me that the motor and gearbox aren't part of the powertrain, which was frustrating...

... Right now I think my plan is to change the oil and just keep driving the car, and hope that the gearbox is pretty resilient and won't give out on me. This really is something that seems like it should be a recall fix, because the solution of "we'll issue a TSB and fix it under warranty" doesn't really work now that a lot of these cars are on the used market and have no warranties.
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Despite you as 2nd owner are just outside of the warranty period, given that there is a TSB it's disappointing that they won't cover at least the parts cost. I think you have a strong case.

Clearly the motor and gearbox make up the powertrain along with the inverter and traction battery. There should be a definition in the warranty fine print.

The gearbox could go for another year or longer with clean oil so that's worth doing. There are many descriptions of how to do this on Kona forums. Use Redline MT-LV, only 1 US qt needed if you don't spill a drop.

upload_2023-8-2_8-12-43.webp
 
Over the past 20 months perhaps a dozen+ Kona owners have reported the results of approaching their Hyundai dealers to have the oil changed. It's not an impressive scoresheet with some denying EVs have oil or that it's "a sealed unit" and can't be changed. Some say it doesn't need changing with one refusing to even carry out the job. In two cases customers were charged for an automatic transmission oil change, perhaps because there isn't a standard billing item for this simple job. One said they had to order new drain plugs before they could start. Several have insisted the oil volume was 3.5 litres, leading me to believe there may have been a honest mistake in their online documentation. One dealer here billed the customer for three bottles then when confronted said the two extra bottles of this expensive synthetic oil were to "flush the gearbox". Despite sticking to that claim, the added charge was quickly refunded. On the plus side, one report indicated a dealer in SoCal billed it as a differential oil change which is a reasonable equivalent, US$140.

It could be entertaining to ask them for a quote and to hear what they say when they see how black it is. Responses in the past have ranged from dismissive to concerned enough to "notify Hyundai". Unfortunately it will be a matter of luck rather than knowledge if them doing the oil change actually helps argue your case.

You could keep an eye out for a new or used gearbox (assuming that's the problem) if you think you will be on the hook for the cost. The motor on the other hand is about 4x the cost.

upload_2023-8-2_10-35-56.webp
(front page of the Transys powertrain catalog)

upload_2023-8-2_11-5-9.webp
(kia.parts, select 2020 model year)
 
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"The dealership also tried to tell me that the motor and gearbox aren't part of the powertrain, which was frustrating."

These have been in dealerships since 2015, and the still don't have qualified staff. Small wonder there is an excess of EV6 on lots.

The KIA warranty clearly states 8 years/100,000 on EV drivetrains and does not stipulate a shorter period for successive owners.

I suggest you need two things:

A dealership with a certified EV staff and a lawyer to send a demand letter to KIA.

This is a terrible way to treat customers, and has become standard practice from KIA.
 
Exactly what I've seen from my research. Our warranty in NZ is 3 years /100,000 km for all owners. But we have government consumer laws that require vendors to cover a reasonable product lifetime.
 
Did you get anywhere with this yet? I also have to take mine back in for it, the noise is getting very loud now, sounds just like the abnormal reduction gear sound in the TSB. At 37k they tried to tell me the sound was "normal"...so I'm going to record the sound from the motor bay, and I'm sure this is going to be a battle. I'm already suing Kia for another defect so I might as well get this looked at now while I have the lawyer.
 
Just following up. Any progress? Just got my car back and they again said it’s normal. The technician agreed they hear the sound and something is wrong but Kia refuses to diagnose or attempt any repairs. The dealer is a dead end at this point, so now we have to pursue legal action.
 
Oh man! Me too! Kia 2019 EV with 80k miles, TSB# 234, Extended warranty will not fix "defective" transmission if still working. Kia has refused "good will recall" of known problem - 6 weeks at dealership trying to get help. Quote cost 12k for repairs, Paid 30k 1 year ago. Suggestions?
 
Flora Burke said:
Oh man! Me too! Kia 2019 EV with 80k miles, TSB# 234, Extended warranty will not fix "defective" transmission if still working. Kia has refused "good will recall" of known problem - 6 weeks at dealership trying to get help. Quote cost 12k for repairs, Paid 30k 1 year ago. Suggestions?
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I’m suing. However I think after that there will be no recourse other than to blast them publicly and then get rid of the car. I think there needs to be a class action lawsuit against Kia.
 
Flora Burke said:
Oh man! Me too! Kia 2019 EV with 80k miles, TSB# 234, Extended warranty will not fix "defective" transmission if still working. Kia has refused "good will recall" of known problem - 6 weeks at dealership trying to get help. Quote cost 12k for repairs, Paid 30k 1 year ago. Suggestions?
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If you're sure it's the reducer and not the motor perhaps purchase the part yourself and have it installed by a local garage. $12k seems a lot for this no matter what currency you're using.

https://www.kiapartsnow.com/genuine/kia-0~4450018ea1.html

snowy2020 said:
.... I think there needs to be a class action lawsuit against Kia.
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There probably does but it's a hard one to prove. I'm not sure how long manufacturers remain responsible for their products.
 
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