Wrong HV range

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Kyle, Jan 17, 2018.

  1. Kyle

    Kyle New Member

    Has anyone else seen falsely high HV ranges reported on the Clarity PHEV? After my last fillup of the 7-gallon tank, it reported 464 HV miles; this time it went to 519!

    Unfortunately my highway driving is in practice getting more like the 40-45 mpg advertised. The range only changes when the ICE is running, but falls much faster than the distance I drive, proportional to the amount of gas left.
     

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  2. loomis2

    loomis2 Well-Known Member

    My wife just filled up the car tonight and right now the app shows 563 miles of hv range. That sounds reasonable. ;)
     
  3. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Yes our HV mile estimate was only near correct for about a week. Then for the last six weeks it has shown 400-550 miles of range. It's useless as it is. It would be nice to have a way to reset it or plug in a more correct estimate.
     
  4. Tiralc

    Tiralc Active Member

    The manual doesn't shed much light on the question. One example shows HV 2200.

    Also, the manual writer confuses power with energy ("remaining power and fuel"). The driver's meter curve shows power, the power being drawn (or returned) the system ("watts"). The stored energy is watt-hours, e.g. 14 kWh used in a drive.

    It's not that difficult:
    Power (kW) is analogous to gallons / hour, and
    Energy (kWh) is analogous to gallons of fuel remaining or gallons used.

    I think another issue is what does "HV" of "HV mode" mean? Hybrid Vehicle? It kinda sounds like high voltage, but that is what EV means (i.e. battery miles).

    Screen Shot 2018-01-18 at 8.58.35 AM.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  5. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    I think they're using HV for high voltage battery, but I'm happy to stand corrected.
     
  6. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    I had assumed HV stood for Hybrid Vehicle after thinking that EV stands for Electric Vehicle. The manual pretty much avoids naming what HV stands for. Page 15 totally bypasses naming it by saying, "To maintain charge levels, you can, at any time, use the HV button to switch the vehicle to HV". Page 132 sort of names it Hybrid mode.
     
    Domenick likes this.
  7. PHClarity2018

    PHClarity2018 New Member

    My HV range currently shows 811 miles, I wish this was real.
     
  8. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    ...and I stand corrected.
    So, when it talks about HV mode range, it's talking about range after battery is depleted, then?
     
  9. jdonalds

    jdonalds Well-Known Member

    Well we know the HV range value is totally inaccurate but the promised action is when HV mode is used the traction battery charge level will be maintained. However there is an open question if that is true.

    The promise is, when in HV mode, one could preserve the battery power, saving it for use in EV mode, in a destination city. At least one report says that may not work as advertised.
     
  10. Kyle

    Kyle New Member

    HV mode range is supposed to be the range after the battery is depleted, and it changes when the ICE is running.

    Honda's reply to my service ticket is disappointing:
    We value you as a Honda customer and we appreciate the opportunity of responding to your concern. On behalf of American Honda Motor Co., Inc., we offer our sincere apologies for the circumstances which prompted you to reach us.

    The skilled technicians at a Honda dealership are in the best position to evaluate your vehicle in order to determine the available corrective action. We encourage you to contact the Service Department of your preferred Honda dealership for assistance with diagnosis. The dealership is able to contact our Technical Department if they require assistance regarding your concern. If further assistance is required after visiting your Honda dealer, please do not hesitate to reach back out to us.


    It appears I'll have to take it in, point to the dash showing what the picture shows, and hope someone at a dealer cares enough to convince someone at Honda that they have a bug in their firmware.
     
  11. Tiralc

    Tiralc Active Member

    yep, seems to be Honda Corporate policy that any technical questions are to be asked at the dealership. The dealer may reply with style (e.g. when J. Donalds brought us those pages on when remote climate control can be used), or not. It is a shame that we cannot access some of the higher level technical manuals ourselves.

    I tried to break through with customer service one afternoon. I actually thought I might get to talk a knowledgeable technical person on the Clarity if I pushed a little more. However, a very polite representative told me no, and that in reality she had no more information than an owner has direct access to (the manuals and Honda online materials). She referred me to the dealership.

    Oh well, it's a great car and the world is less than a perfect place. hey, I think that could be the Honda motto! :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
    Domenick likes this.
  12. bfd

    bfd Active Member


    And of course, we already know that the dealership and Service Dept. knows ALL about these cars. It's somewhat disappointing, yes. Same as with the original plug-in Prius. It pretty much took lots of early adopters (like those of us here) adding to the data file. Eventually, and it took several years, there was a pretty good fact base to work from (at PriusChat). Keep those observations coming in!
     
  13. dstrauss

    dstrauss Well-Known Member

    The HV range estimate is absolutely worthless. We know that it CAN'T get 550 miles HV range, but that's what mine said on the recent refill, AND after traveling 154 miles, I still had 435 miles HV range.

    So why doesn't Honda maintain a reporting blog for registered Clarity owners to start running down these issues.
     
    Domenick likes this.
  14. bfd

    bfd Active Member

    Great question. I recall that there was a Toyota Product Manager, Erika Gartsbeyn, who posted early and often on PriusChat during 2011, 2012 and the PriusPHEV introduction. She and her Prius Team were highly involved in fixing the online ordering fiasco that some experienced, and then remained active on the forum for the first year or so after the cars started coming off the boat. She handled many questions like the ones we're coming up with - or she forwarded them to someone who could answer them. I was most impressed by that.

    Besides that, early adopters were showered with gift bags from PriusChat and Toyota. It's really a head-scratcher that Honda USA doesn't have anything like this going on for their newest PHEV introduction. They held test drive opportunities for the EV but nothing for the PHEV. Didn't really even want to acknowledge them as I recall. However, there's also nothing like PriusChat for Honda. It really wasn't too difficult for Erika's Prius Team to locate the online nexus of most of their new PHEV's buyers.

    Honda may not even be aware that this forum exists. We could fix that, but I'm not sure who we'd talk to at Honda USA … or if they'd even care. Given one poster's response from Honda Customer Service already …
     
  15. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    Our best bet may be for all of us to call Honda Corporate and tell them both the HV and EV (graphical electric range indicator) are hugely inaccurate.

    The assumption has to be made that nobody at Honda reads this forum.
     
  16. Tiralc

    Tiralc Active Member

    I bet if we could figure out the right managers, without casting a negative light on Honda, they would talk to us. At the same time, I do not think an independent forum like this needs to become a PR wing of a company, just to get technical answers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
    dstrauss likes this.
  17. Ken7

    Ken7 Active Member

    So today we used up all of our EV range and the car switched over to HV. No problem, except that after 40 miles of gas (HV) driving, our stated HV range had dropped 100 miles. Talk about not even being in the ballpark...yikes!
     
  18. dstrauss

    dstrauss Well-Known Member

    For now I think you have to drive like there are no gauges - expect 40+/- EV and I'd refuel at 250 miles HV.
     
  19. ab13

    ab13 Active Member

    This is the YouTube playlist for Honda's PHEV videos. One of the PR people is demonstrating the car in one video.
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv_tG8yR7XJkARAC8FWvh5XWmp_WrYta8
     
  20. Tiralc

    Tiralc Active Member

    Good idea, but if you Google the name (following the lead, I was hoping to find an email address), that rep. is mired in controversy. In particular when the Washington Post asked what Honda does with collected data, the rep. refused to answer the question, and then provided a copy of the Honda manual. There are similar threads about similar questions posed at an auto show. I see no advantage to writing the name here, the goal is not to harm or shame anyone or Honda, just to find a contact who can and will competently answer some technical questions (to the extent that they can without saying company design secrets).

    It seems like there are maybe three different classes of topics so far folks have said they want Honda to hear.

    1) There are a number of technical questions, mostly about how some function works. For example, not in any particular order: a) If the Clarity remains plugged in after reaching full charge, will it ever do anything else (beyond support for remote climate control)? b) When does the engine come on and why, and when will it turn off and why? (folks here continue to find some answers in the manuals) c) why does the battery continue to discharge in HV mode? d) What in heck do the estimated EV and HV range numbers mean? Is there a bug in that software? e) What's up with the SiriusXM radio hangs? f) Those are just a few examples, I suppose if there is interest, we could have a running list that could be added to;

    2) There are a number of features that folks would like to see added to the Clarity, or features that should be changed or done differently (jdonalds probably is aware of the most comprehensive list for this one) (not everyone will agree with all of the suggestions, but still there are many common threads); and

    3) There are a number of ideas of what future Honda EV, BEV, PHEV should be like in the years to come (e.g. a recent comment was to put more battery range behind PHEV)

    Within reason (e.g. not demanding trade secrets (also, I would never sign a NDA with Honda, I'm not interested in that kind of relationship with them, or that kind of information)), I think we almost have a right to answers for the 1) type questions. Certainly we would like Honda to care enough to listen to 2). 3) is tougher, telling Honda how to proceed in the world, but it sure would be nice if they at least listened to the ideas.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018

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