Would you buy an SE at current prices without the $7500 credit?

Well a Signature 2.0 $36,000 (before incentives) to $23,000 residual over a 24 month lease would be in the $550/month range. That could leave a little money for the dealer for the CPO and $4,000 used EV rebate.

The point is that used EVs are exempt from the assembly requirements as well as the battery or critical minerals.

This is an extremely underrated comment. A $40,000 finance at 6.34% for 36 months would mean the cost of borrowing is about $4,030. Had the $7,500 rebate been directly applied $32,500, the cost of borrowing would be reduced to $3,275.

 

Oof, this really sucks. Car buying requires so much planning, it's ridiculous that rules can change so suddenly. It's so obvious that the main goal of this was to immediately disrupt EV adoption.

Ordered a Iconic SE in May and hoping to see it in person in October. We'll likely end up passing on it if there is little to no chance of getting that $7500 credit.

 

One could always throw the $7500 received at tax time toward the principle. I'm scratching my head more over the rate being model-specific... that seems real odd to me.

 

You can thank Joe Manchin for this change. He gets too much money from the fossil fuel industry and has made it clear he doesn't like the tax credit. If the senate wasn't evenly divided, the BBB bill could have been passed without this provision. It was a compromise to get this moderate to support the bill.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/automakers-press-us-senator-manchin-changes-ev-tax-credit-proposal-2022-08-02/

There is a lot of good stuff in BBB but Machin killed the EV tax credit.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/build-back-better/

 

In Canada we are offered Premier and Premier+ trim lines. We bought a Premier and qualified for the full 12k rebate in Canada. 5k federal and 7k provincial.

 

I’m not saying I disagree with you, but there are other places to discuss politics and policy, and where to point fingers.

Back on topic: speaking from north of the border, neither our federal or provincial incentive programs were renewed until the 25th of March, and they were both set to expire at the end of that month. I took a gamble and placed my order on the 18th, with a $1000 (refundable) deposit. Had either program died ($5000 fed, $8000 province), I’d have bailed. The provincial program went down to $7000 upon its renewal for orders placed beginning April 1, but the $8000 was grandfathered for earlier orders provided the cars got delivered and registered by the end of June. My car was built in May but sat at Southampton for almost six weeks, left the UK on July 16, and was delivered in August. That’s a thousand bucks just left on the table. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Halifax is experiencing some major rail delays now to add to the ro-ro shipping delays. As EVs get more and more “mainstream” the incentives to buy them will fade away. It’s possible at each renewal the rebate will be chopped

 

It's probably an indirect way for MINI Financial services to profit (dealer gets some commission as well). Taxpayers seem more than happy to share a portion of their $7,500 with MINI (with such high demand?).

This is why Quebec has the highest EV uptake in Canada. Electrified MINIs rebates based on Federal $5,000 iZEV stats say Quebec has 43.64%, BC 35.24%, ON 15.19% for a total of 94.07% in Canada. If I took advantage of Roulez Vert & iZEV each year since 2019, that would be $51,000CAD ($39,000 USD) of rebates already! That's a free MINI Cooper SE if you are rich enough for outright cash purchases!

 

The rebates also apply to leasing but is on a tier. We leased our SE for 48 months 20k per year. Will we do 20k per year doubt it. I’m not a huge fan of first year production cars which is why we went with the F56 SE vs waiting for the new G chassis or whatever it will be. Maybe in 2-3 years I’ll trade our 2019 F55 S in for one

Charging network is pretty good in Montreal and Quebec in general. The level 2 chargers on my street are 1hr and there are DC fast chargers a block away. I will have a level 2 at my house. My wife has free charging at her work. On top of that electricity is properly cheap here. For us it was a no brainer for a second car and introduction to owning an EV

 

Purchasing allows you to flip the vehicle the next calendar year and collect another $12,000 in Quebec ($5,000 Fed + $7,000 QC) for another qualifying EV.

Not sure if MINI will go to the CLAR platform (G generation) or Neue Klasse (2024+). I have a feeling the ICE MINI vehicles will follow CLAR but the EVs might be on the Great Wall Motors L.E.M.O.N (i.e. Ora Cat) platform. I really have no idea why they decided to call it LEMON??

 

I know people who were flipping and banking at the time the physical rebate cheque they sent you from QC using front buyers (family etc) Now it’s all applied at the dealer.

As for the next Gen we will find out soon enough. If it’s built in Europe I’ll likely still buy it. Although China won’t seem so bad considering how decent the MGs are

 

I am not a fan of manchin either, but let’s remember…..there are 50 republicans in the senate and not a single one voted for it. Let’s say Manchin, and the republicans, killed the ev credit.

Sorry for veering into politics….this convo was headed in that direction.

 

The credit is from the government hence politics naturally come into it.
The bill essentially kills the tax credit, at the very least it halves it.
If it was being done in good faith re battery production in the USA it would not have such a high bar from the beginning as everyone knows it takes years to plan, build and start producing. Which Manchin and his handlers know full well.

 

Apologies to those still waiting and even waiting to decide if they want a MINI Cooper SE that's $7,500 more expensive than they anticipated, but in hindsight, I'd definitely have purchased my SE even w/o the EV tax credit.

It was 2 years ago today that my wonderful MINI Cooper SE arrived 51 weeks after I ordered it! I've owned many fun cars in my life (eg: Austin-Healey 100-6, Morris Mini Moke, Fiat-Abarth OT-1000, Porsche 914 2.0, Mazda RX-7, Honda CRX-Si), but I'm so happy not to be sadly reminiscing and longing for the fun cars I used to drive because the future brought forth the quickest and most fun car of them all! I wish its range was greater and I wish its weight was less, but I think MINI's designers achieved the perfect balance between those two realities of today's battery-powered vehicles.

 

At this point in time, I’m not likely to buy mine when it’s delivered.

That said, there’s a pretty epic fight-to-the-death between the YOLO devil on my left shoulder and the Coast FIRE angel on my right on this decision. Your list of sexy-@$$ cars, when compared to my own (‘87 Ford Mustang LX (4-cyl <yuck>), ‘93 Chevy S-10 Pickup (5-speed, V6!), 2003 Altima SL, and current 2012 Acura TL) has given my YOLO devil renewed energy not just to fight, but fight dirty!

Mercifully, I don’t have a decision to make until probably early-November.

 

I know the conversation has moved on, but I just wanted to chime in that I fully expect to be able to modify my SE's battery in 10-15 years. I already do this with 25 year old video game consoles, adding new screens, batteries, etc. And people take ICE cars and turn them into EVs all the time. My background is IT and I'm way less intimidated by modding my EV than I ever was with my gas-powered cars. This will only get easier as the tech evolves.

So yeah, plan to see my MINI SE on the road in 20 years, likely with double the range.

 

I love the concept, but I'm not convinced there will be a robust marketplace for replacement or aftermarket batteries for the SE in ten years. Especially if sales are limited (or cut off after IRA), there may not be enough business incentive to create many drop-in options. We will see!

 

If the Oxford SE ends up being the only mass-produced (leaving out the Tesla Roadster), small, sporty EV ever sold in North America (Mazda whiffed on a Miata EV), I would expect a healthy market for upgraded batteries and other performance mods.

 

You're right, economies of scale may limit drop-in replacement options, but there will be generic ones at the very least that could be adapted to fit.

Also, don't forget it's a global economy and options may come from countries other than the US. I get a lot of electronics modding equipment from Australia these days!