Official Honda statement on availability

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by DucRider, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. 2002

    2002 Well-Known Member

    It might be doable in some cases as I think some states won't charge sales tax for a vehicle if you can prove that you paid sales tax to another state. And the California tax might not be much higher than the state tax they would have paid locally. I'm guessing if the California tax was lower than local tax then they would have to pay the difference to their state.

    I think I remember one person saying they did pay some more in taxes but the discount they got more than compensated for it. The important thing is for people to check it out prior to purchase what their state's policy is.

    I also heard about someone who was thinking about taking delivery of a Prius Prime in Las Vegas and then driving it home from there. I never heard if they did or not but that's certainly being creative.
     
  2. stacey burke

    stacey burke Member

    I bought in California in 2013 and drove it back to Colorado, no problems at all. I bought my Clarity in Nebraska and drove it back to Colorado no problems. Each time I paid my tax when I got my plates in Colorado. I don't know about how it would work in other states. One big difference between the 2 times was the trade in. On the first I sold the car my self. When I went to Nebraska I drove and used it as a trade in. In Colorado if you trade the car in you do NOT pay sales tax on the amount of the trade in. So I bought the Clarity for 35,000 and got 10,500 for the trade and paid sales tax on 24,500...
     
    Domenick likes this.
  3. 2002

    2002 Well-Known Member

    Interesting, you apparently got lucky and the California dealer incorrectly reported that the car was delivered outside of California, and thus did not collect sales tax. If they got audited they could have had a problem.

    Vehicles purchased for use outside California

    You are generally not required to report tax on a vehicle that is sold and delivered for use outside California. You must establish that the vehicle was delivered to the purchaser outside California (for example, delivered by your employee or by common carrier), and that the purchaser did not take possession of the vehicle in California.

    Required documentation

    This may include evidence of the customer’s out-of-state address, such as utility bills or property tax bills.

    If the delivery is made by a common or contract carrier, customs broker, or forwarding agent, documents supporting the delivery or shipment may include bills of lading.

    A statement signed by the delivery person and the purchaser, such as a CDTFA-448, Statement of Delivery Outside California, certifying delivery of the vehicle to an out-of-state location, may be used. You are urged to have this statement notarized at the out of-state delivery point. This form can be used by a dealer to certify a vehicle was delivered to a purchaser at an out-of-state location. It is also used by a purchaser to support the fact that delivery was accepted out of state. Once completed, the original must be returned to you for your records


    https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/formspubs/pub34.pdf (page 3)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  4. su_A_ve

    su_A_ve Active Member

    In NJ and PA you can buy a car and they collect state tax based on the state the vehicle will be registered to. I believe same thing with NY and DE (which though there's no sales tax, there's some type of automobile tax)

    With the Clarity last year, the problem was with PA buyers getting prices in NJ that were extremely good. Problem is PA is not a ZEV state while NJ is, so dealers where giving Honda incentives only available in ZEV states. This would eventually show up when signing docs with the finance manager "oh, car price is actually $2000 more - sorry"

    From what was quoted above, it seems CA laws prevent you from buying and registering to another state unless the car is shipped by common carrier or dealer employee. So a dealer trade from Oregon should be fine, or having them ship the vehicle for you.
     
  5. stacey burke

    stacey burke Member

    When I bought in California I bought it in Sacramento. I went to the dealer signed all of the papers and then an employee drove the car toReno with me following in a loaner When we got just outside of Reno we went to a notery and signed a paper releasing the car to me
     
    LegoZ likes this.
  6. 2002

    2002 Well-Known Member

    This can certainly be a problem in California also where the current dealer incentive (now $4,000) is only for cars registered in California. Not that all California dealers are willing to part with the incentive even for California resident purchases. But if someone is buying from out of state they need to make sure that the dealer is aware that the car will not be registered in California, and make sure that is stated somewhere on the written quote. I have heard reports about purchases on the east coast exactly like you said, even when they made it very clear to the dealer that they were purchasing from out of state and were assured verbally that that is no problem, then like you said they get to the actually signing and are told they don't get the discount since they will be registering in a different state.

    It's not so much that it prevents taking delivery in California it's just that in some cases you could wind up paying more for taxes depending on where you live. Most if not all states will not charge sales tax if you can show that you already paid sales tax to California. But you can still wind up paying more tax than you would have, for example we had someone on here who had to pay I think 1% more because they would have paid like 6.25% sales tax in their home state but instead wound up paying 7.25% to California. But they said the difference was only around $300 so no huge deal.

    We don't have a list of what happens in all 49 states so we can only talk in generalities and warn people that California does things differently so check with their local agency to find out what the tax situation will be for them if they purchase a car in California and take delivery there.
     
  7. 2002

    2002 Well-Known Member

    Wow that is really great that they were willing to do that. If you still have your paperwork I would be willing to bet that one of the papers signed in front of the notary was a Statement of Delivery Outside California, as the CA website that I linked to recommended to the dealer that they have that statement notarized at the place of delivery.

    Thanks for posting this as it is exactly the type of information that can help people outside of California to know at least what is possible, even though finding a dealer who is willing may be more of a challenge. What type of car did you purchase in 2013?
     
  8. victor_2019

    victor_2019 Active Member

    6 month wait is what we are normally told in Canada for the clarity due to the high demand, caused by the combined federal and provincial rebates (5000 federal, 8000 provincial in quebec). There's waiting lists at every dealer for the car.

    If you want a clarity, you'll wait 3 months. if you're not willing to wait 3 months, what will you buy? the Volt is discontinued. What other PHEV of this size and with this electric range can you get?
     
  9. victor_2019

    victor_2019 Active Member

    That's not what they're saying at all.

    you can order the trim and color you want and wait the amount of time it takes to manufacture your car and ship it to you.

    or, if you are flexible on color or trim, you can get your car faster, because of cancellations, extra stock etc.

    When I was looking at getting one from a local dealer, they had a long waiting list for the car but they had a touring in stock ready to sell to me, and when I asked why the people on the waiting list weren't getting that instead of me, he told me it's because of trim and color choices.

    When I was considering getting a hyundai Ioniq, the dealer told me the same thing: it's much more likely he will be able to quickly find me one if I'm flexible on color, if I want something specific I need to order it and wait.
     
  10. 4sallypat

    4sallypat Active Member

    Wow, what exceptional service the dealer did for you to make a sale!

    Yes, this is another way of circumventing the tax in CA - drive it across state lines and notarize the transfer. Rather clever!

    I hold a BOE resale permit for my side business and the only way to not pay taxes, is to have it shipped. The dealer selling the car also has a BOE permit and can ship to anywhere outside CA to avoid tax, registration, and titling. The only fees due would be the negotiated price plus $85 doc fee. This assumes you bought the car "cash" paid in full or you have secured financing on your own. This will NOT work for a lease unless your home state's dealer has arranged the lease and is accepting a trade or transfer from another dealer....
     
  11. Ohliuw

    Ohliuw Member

    Well, in Canada you actually pay taxes in your province of residence when:

    1. The car is shipped to you
    AND
    2. The dealer’s name is listed as sender on the shipping bill, regardless of who pays for the shipping

    https://www.ucda.org/DealerInfo/OutOfProvince.aspx
     
    2002 likes this.
  12. 2002

    2002 Well-Known Member

    Sound similar to California, although it seems like there is no provision for a dealer employee to deliver the car, as the required documentation is a bill of lading. Also I'm not sure if the customer can arrange for shipping themselves, as you indicated the Ontario requirement states:

    • If the buyer is shown as consignor on the bill of lading, delivery takes place in Ontario.

    • If the selling dealer is shown as consignor on the bill of lading, then delivery takes place in the destination province.

    The consignor listed on the document is the person delivering the goods to the shipping company. I am not sure if someone arranges shipping themselves if they can have the dealer listed as the consignor, if not then I guess the dealer has to arrange the shipping even if the customer ends up paying for it. In the U.S. you can arrange your own shipping at probably lower cost than what the dealer will arrange, especially since the dealer will mark it up.
     
  13. victor_2019

    victor_2019 Active Member

    In canada you pay taxes when the car is sold and when it is registered in a different province, but you get a refund of the taxes paid at sale.

    I live in Quebec, bought my car in Ontario. I paid HST in Ontario and paid QST in quebec, then asked the revenue agency to refund the Ontario portion of the HST i had paid.
     
  14. Ohliuw

    Ohliuw Member

    Yes, but this requires cash upfront. If the ON dealer ships to Montreal, it would save you the hassle of the HST rebate and also save you from potential issues with the QC ZEV rebate. Also, most ON dealers in Ottawa have QST accounts, so they can charge you QST off the bat - they just ask you where you want it plated, et voila.

    For leases, the rule is if it’s more than 3 months, you pay the taxes at your province of residence (I decided to lease the Clarity for 48 months with the intent of buying it if all well after 4 years as the govt rebate
     
  15. Danks

    Danks Member

    When I went to NY and bought my Clarity - no delivery or shipping - I paid the sales tax when I registered in MI. They have an exemption for non-residents with no business in NY.
     
  16. 2002

    2002 Well-Known Member

    As far as I know California is the only state that collects sales tax even when the car will not be registered there. At least we never hear about other states doing that when people purchase cars in neighboring states, something which has happened quite often due to the scarcity of Clarity in many areas.

    On a related subject I am not aware of any state that will "double-tax" meaning making someone pay full sales tax in that state regardless if sales tax was paid in California. As far as I know on that one also people only have to pay the difference if the local tax is higher than California. However if the local tax is lower (or non-existent) that's when someone can pay higher taxes by taking delivery in California.
     
  17. Mowcowbell

    Mowcowbell Active Member

    Not sure of the availability in Canada, but the Chrysler Pacifica PHEV is another option. Not exactly a sedan, but an awesome road trip vehicle.
     
  18. 4sallypat

    4sallypat Active Member

    When you bought in NY, with the car being registered in MI, did you qualify for the Northeast states DLFC tax credit and NYS tax exemption ?
     
  19. css28

    css28 Active Member

    I wish!
    (It's all about the state you title in, I have to believe).
     
  20. Danks

    Danks Member

    No tax credit other than the federal $7,500. I expect that the NYS tax exemption was why we were not charged tax in NY.
     

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