Musk on sabotage

Discussion in 'General' started by bwilson4web, Jun 19, 2018.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Active Member

    Source: Elon Musk email: Employee conducted 'extensive and damaging sabotage'

    I was dismayed to learn this weekend about a Tesla employee who had conducted quite extensive and damaging sabotage to our operations. This included making direct code changes to the Tesla Manufacturing Operating System under false usernames and exporting large amounts of highly sensitive Tesla data to unknown third parties.

    The full extent of his actions are not yet clear, but what he has admitted to so far is pretty bad. His stated motivation is that he wanted a promotion that he did not receive. In light of these actions, not promoting him was definitely the right move.
    . . .

    Even paranoids have enemies.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    I'm not familiar with this "Elon Musk is paranoid" meme. Is there any factual basis to this, or is it merely another example of the extreme jealousy expressed by many of Musk's many successes and his wealth?
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Active Member

    The difference between paranoia and reality is evidence. So far, we've only seen one side from one person. As the story develops, I'm looking for:
    • more than one reporter - a Tesla firewall or network security technician
    • logs showing what happened and when - also called evidence
    • civil lawsuit - for damages against the party or parties who did it
    • criminal lawsuit - there are laws against damaging a computer system
    I understand the need to be open and above board when something bad happens. I'd seen that at my former employers. But it doesn't become real until the miscreants are identified, evidence presented, and judicial action taken. BTW, being paranoid is not a bad thing because there are bad actors out there.

    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
  4. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]
     
    toomie likes this.
  5. "His stated motivation is that he wanted a promotion that he did not receive."
    Sounds a little made-up to me. Just for a promotion?
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Active Member

    Interview him 10 times and you'll probably get 11 justifications depending upon who is asking. The criminal case will get his financial records and I suspect another insight.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. David Green

    David Green Active Member

    Police had said there is no police report earlier today... I think this story is all BS... the first thing a company does in a case like this is report it to police, and have the employee arrested, by law they cannot even question the accused without the person signing off on it. Most companies would quietly do an internal investigation, and try to figure out what is going on and way... Elon coming out publicly, and no police report make the whole thing fishy...
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Active Member

  9. Old story. This is new.
    https://insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/musk-on-sabotage.2354/

    "But that ex-employee is fighting back, saying he's being targeted by Tesla for trying to bring problems at the company to light.
    "I am being singled out for being a whistleblower. I didn't hack into system. The data I was collecting was so severe, I had to go to the media," said Martin Tripp.
    ..
    But Tripp told CNN he was fired within the last week and sued by Tesla because he was trying to warn investors and the public about problems at the electric carmaker. He said that he discovered that 1,100 damaged battery modules were installed in Model 3 cars that are on the road today. He said that he was also concerned about excessive scrap that is being stored in a dangerous manner on Tesla's property in Nevada that will be expensive to safely dispose of in the future. And he claims that Tesla inflated the number of Model 3's it made when it said it had built 2,020 of the cars in the seven days prior to a much anticipated April 3 report. Tripp said the actual number is closer to 1,900."

    Agreed. This is a developing story.
     
  10. David Green

    David Green Active Member

    He has spoken publicly now...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ls-hunt-for-saboteurs/?utm_term=.7b2b9858d26e
     
  11. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Seriously? That has been the motive for a lot of traitors leaking or selling classified intelligence to the enemy, and this isn't nearly as drastic a sell-out as that.

    Now that he's been caught, he's claiming to be a "whistleblower" after the fact. :rolleyes: Reminds me a lot of Edward Snowden, who likewise was passed over for promotion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  12. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    How predictable of you. :rolleyes:

     
  13. That's nonsense. Promotions at these lower levels mean nothing. In Silicon valley, whoever can leak the boots better gets the promotion. But read the Washington post article. He denied that.

    * Tesla lawyers claimed, disgruntled about not getting a promotion. "That's their generic excuse," he said. "I could literally care less."
    * Musk saying, "You’re a horrible human being,"
    * He said he now believes Musk is a "narcissist" who "only cares about himself.

    * Tripp said he left his previous job with a medical-device company and moved his family to Nevada to work for Tesla, believing it was "a golden opportunity. I looked up to Elon, I looked up to Tesla. I was always drooling about the Teslas and wanting to buy one. And I was living the mission: to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy."

    But he said he grew disillusioned after seeing the company's waste, unsustainable practices and "seeing how Elon was lying to investors about how many cars they were making." He added, "I wanted to leave the world better for my son. And I felt I was doing everything but that."

    Getting really interesting.
     
  14. David Green

    David Green Active Member

    Yes, I think Tesla should have let him quietly sneak away for giving production data to the media, by suing him, this will be a front page story.... I cannot wait for discovery, this is going to be fun, and expose what is really going on behind the fence.
     
    TeslaInvestors likes this.
  15. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    This thing where you keep trying to refute actual facts and reasonable, logical, thoughtful comments and analysis with nothing to back it up... not working for you, dude.

    I don't think you're fooling anyone here. Everyone can see that your only motive for posting is to attack Tesla with FUD, untruths and half-truths. You have no interest at all in anything else discussed here.

     
  16. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    The similarities to Edward Snowden's rationalizations and self-justification for his treason grow more and more obvious with everything this guy says.

    Thanks for confirming my analysis, Teslainvestor; I didn't expect that so soon, nor such a close parallel to Snowden. Altho of course that wasn't your intention! :p

    * * * * *

    From an article on Edward Snowden at The Rolling Stones:

    Then, in 2006, he landed a job as a computer technician with the CIA.

    The CIA, with its air of entitlement and mystery, is the most elitist of U.S. government agencies. But the beauty of the IT sector, no matter where you were, as Snowden said, was its egalitarianism. "Nobody gives a sh*t what school you go to... Employers fight over me. And I'm 22."

    In 2007, he was posted to the CIA station in Geneva. Mavanee Anderson, a young legal intern also stationed in Geneva, befriended Snowden and recalled him as thoughtful but insecure...

    Snowden came to be bothered by much of what he saw in the CIA. He would later cite an operation to recruit a Swiss banker as an asset that involved getting the man arrested on drunk-driving charges. He also recalled, in an interview with The New York Times' Risen, the retaliation from a senior manager whose authority he'd once questioned. The incident arose over a flaw Snowden found in some CIA software, which he pointed out to his superiors. Rather than praising his initiative, however, one manager, who didn't appreciate such enterprising behavior, placed a critical note in his personnel file, effectively killing Snowden's chance for promotion. He eventually left the agency, "experiencing a crisis of conscience of sorts," as Anderson remembered.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  17. David Green

    David Green Active Member

    Tripp shared some production data, hardly a treasonous national secret... If he did not get paid, his whistleblower claim will stick, and Tesla is going to be giving lots of discovery....
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Active Member

    I prefer to start from court documents because they are subject to judicial review, a step above 'flame wars':

    1. This suit arises from the misconduct of Martin Tripp (“Tripp”), a former employee of Tesla, Inc. (“Tesla”) who unlawfully hacked the company’s confidential and trade secret information and transferred that information to third parties.

    2. Tesla has only begun to understand the full scope of Tripp’s illegal activity, but he has thus far admitted to writing software that hacked Tesla’s manufacturing operating system (“MOS”) and to transferring several gigabytes of Tesla data to outside entities. This includes dozens of confidential photographs and a video of Tesla’s manufacturing systems.

    3. Beyond the misconduct to which Tripp admitted, he also wrote computer code to periodically export Tesla’s data off its network and into the hands of third parties. His hacking software was operating on three separate computer systems of other individuals at Tesla so that the data would be exported even after he left the company and so that those individuals would be falsely implicated as guilty parties.

    4. Tripp also made false claims to the media about the information he stole. For example, Tripp claimed that punctured battery cells had been used in certain Model 3 vehicles even though no punctured cells were ever used in vehicles, batteries or otherwise. Tripp also vastly exaggerated the true amount and value of “scrap” material that Tesla generated during the manufacturing process, and falsely claimed that Tesla was delayed in bringing new manufacturing equipment online.
    Source: https://sc.cnbcfm.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2018/06/20/Tripp.pdf

    First comes facts and data which get adjudicated in court. Then comes a ruling and assessment of damages and legal fees. To me, it looks like Tripp is in trouble provided Tesla provides the evidence. But one part seems confirmed, "Tripp made claims to the media . . ."

    Source: http://uk.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-scrap-waste-high-gigafactory-2018-5?r=US&IR=T

    Internal documents reviewed by Business Insider show that the company expects . . .

    Elon has been dealing with an attack by 'short' sellers including buying a bunch of Tesla stock for ~$10M. This was apparently due in part to Tripp's leaks. I would not want to be Tripp who has next to nothing in resources, no technical job prospects, and faced with a significant civil action. He has become toxic to any technical firm.

    One early report claimed Tripp had adulterated the factory software implying contributing to the manufacturing woes. That is not in the current court pleading.

    Bob Wilson
     
  19. David Green

    David Green Active Member

    Exactly, Tripp has no money of assets so why sue him? This is another case of Musk bullying the little guy, and making sure to make a big example of Tripp to other employees who may think about leaking more production data to the media. I personally wish Musk would just be honest about production data, so that employees do not feel the need to leak what they consider important data.

    As for sabotaging the production system, that was just Elon dreaming, I am sure Tripp's lawyers will fill a defamation countersuit. The guy took production data and leaked it to the media, not really a big deal, it happens every day in business. Actually I have heard of it happening at executive levels of many companies, and the one example I have personal knowledge of the company fired the employee, and walked him to the property line, and let him go on its way, Oh and this was a much larger company then Tesla.

    Elon attacked by short sellers? how so? Short sellers are attracted to Tesla because Tesla's financial position is so weak, and Elon has poor skills at setting up and managing production. Look at google earth of the Fremont factory, and look over the South and West sides of the factory, it is just mess after mess, after mess... there is so much wasted material out there, you can see many of Tripp's claims for yourself. Then look at all the damaged cars in their mini junkyard, its really a mess. Then search any GM factory, or Magna In Graz Austria, what a difference.
     
  20. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    That would certainly be sufficient for a rational motive on Tesla's part for a lawsuit; a clear message of "You mess with us, and we'll mess with you." However, those commenting on the InsideEVS news articles about the case have pointed out that Tesla may be more motivated by using the "discovery" process of a lawsuit to see who else was involved in this; to find out who was receiving or paying for the data Tripp stole.

    This is rather disingenuous of you. You can see Tesla and Elon attacked, with lies and FUD and half-truths, in scores or hundreds of comments every single day on Seeking Alpha alone, and reportedly the attacks are even more virulent (altho with less daily volume) on the Yahoo Finances forum.

    Not to mention oddly similar posts on InsideEVs... some of which carry your name, David Green. One bit of FUD that's been developed into a full-blown conspiracy theory, repeated for years now, is that Tesla is faking its production numbers. And that's precisely what you are insinuating here, David Green.

    Your pretense of ignorance on the issue of short-sellers attacking Tesla is every bit as disingenuous as you accuse Elon of being!

     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018

Share This Page