Level 2 Charging for under $20

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Mowcowbell, May 7, 2019.

  1. Here's some easier math...

    Assume I have a fully depleted battery which requires 15kwh to fill. My electric rate is $0.088 / kwh = $1.32.

    Gasoline where I live is about $2.50/gallon.

    If you assume that I get approximately the same EV range per charge as I get on a gallon of gas - ~45 miles, then:

    $2.50-$1.32 = $1.18 difference on each full charge, in MY situation, assuming that I only charge at home; but, I charge (120-volt, 16-amp) at one of my work places at no cost.
  2. RogerB

    RogerB Active Member

    Except that doesn't get at the heart of the question here. I gave 5 simple equations to figure out how much the jury-rigged electrical option would save each person. All you need to know is how long you charge each night, your average EV mileage, your HV mpg, local gas price, and your electricity price.
  3. Like @Mowcowbell stated early on, I have the same ZenCar charger. I use it to charge faster either on 120-volt or 240-volt.

    I think that the issue, and the reason for this topic, is time. If your EVSE is 120-volt 10-amp, or 240-volt 32-amp, the co$t is going to be the same for the same kwh of electric usage (assuming rates are constant during your charging time, which they aren't in may locales.) The deciding factor then is the time required to perform the charge.

    If I didn't have the ZenCar, then I would be purchasing one of these adapters, too. There are times when I work late, and have to leave early, have a depleted battery, and the stock EVSE wouldn't be able to charge to full in the time in between. This is why I purchased the ZenCar to start with.

    As stated previously, it is cheaper for me to go on electrons than gasoline. The more I can use electricity, the more that I save $$$ in the long run. And that, gets down to the time-factor again.

    Great discussion!!
    Mowcowbell likes this.
  4. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    Here’s the easiest math of all from my upcoming book, Charging for Dummies by a Dummy.

    Solar panels on roof = $0 cost/EV mile

    (Well, $0 cost after ROI breaks even in 9 years, and then I save $55,000+ over the 25 yr product and production warranty. No solar incentives in coal country. That’s projected using Aurora software and not factoring in any increase in value to the house since no solar houses have sold in my area. And my electric bills are now just the base charge of $14.13/month. Also, I’m grandfathered in for 25 yrs on net metering, so POCO rate increases only make my payback quicker.)
    My fusion (sun) powered Clarity is partially visible on the right. All panels facing practically due south.
    David in TN and Mowcowbell like this.
  5. Mowcowbell

    Mowcowbell Active Member

    I wish I had your setup, KentuckyKen. That would be awesome to charge my Clarity for free.
  6. RogerB

    RogerB Active Member

    The equations I posted take time into account. Math is cool like that. It is even called "charging time". It factors also in the price of gas and electricity. It's amazing. It does all of the things you talk about in generalities, but gives you hard numbers. If someone is on the fence about a real Level 2 or this haphazard solution, it should make the decision a lot easier.

    For me, it would take me a long time at $0.20 a day to justify the cost of an actual Level 2 charger. The potential hazard of this jury-rigged solution, no matter how small the likelihood, is definitely not worth $0.20 per day. I'd have to be bankrupt before resorting to something like this.
  7. Robert_Alabama

    Robert_Alabama Well-Known Member

    I am appreciative of this thread. I don't know I will invest the time or money in an adapter, but it is nice to know there is the option. I built a Level 2 Open EVSE from parts (bought the board and display together, then found cheapest relay, transformer, etc). It's relatively compact and is configurable at 8,12,16,24,32 Amps so I keep it in the trunk with the OEM level 1 charger (along with my full size spare, jack, etc). I might want to one day cut back on all the stuff I haul and just buy an adapter for the Level 1 OEM. It would take care of most of my travel charging "needs" (I'll occasionally use the Level 2 at relative's houses for the most part.) Anyway, I just thought I'd say thanks for OP starting this thread. I see minimal risk (and probably none) using this outside for occasional travel charging which is what I would do.
    AlanSqB and Mowcowbell like this.
  8. RogerB

    RogerB Active Member

    Very nice setup. Looks like you're well prepared for future electrified vehicles as well.
  9. @KentuckyKen, because someone has to stir-the-pot....

    Your picture shows cloudy, but there is sunshine on your house. Also, shouldn't your grass be blue?? :)
    KentuckyKen and Robert_Alabama like this.
  10. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    The picture is from the installer’s drone about 6 pm on the day they finished. The weather is updated each time I log on the monitoring portal. The bluegrass must be like the Great Smokies not being actual smoke since all the grass I’ve seen here (even on horse farms) is green. I’m an old Georgia boy transplanted to KY (How ‘bout dem dawgs?!) and I married a little red haired girl from eastern TN (Elizabethton).

    For being such a good sport, here is some more solar eye candy for you from last month. (The EEs out there will notice I get about 2 hours of clipping on a sunny summer day when production goes over 8 kW). The tall red peak is o\n charging the Clarity and the blue and red peaks are shower and dishwasher hot water use. I expect a lot more red when I have to turn on the ac so it’s good to over produce to have some electrons in the bank for the hot summer months. With net metering, I'm using the utility as a battery. I sized the system to zero out my electric bill but will have to wait for the first calendar year to see how close real life is to software predictions.
    6AACD6A0-8B4A-4DF7-96A8-8464DE21163B.png 399D76CC-6F50-46D2-97B3-5403D99EA755.png
  11. ab13

    ab13 Active Member

    This issue with more connection points is greater chance of poor connection. Tesla did recall some of the optional wall adapters due to overheating. If you have to take care of different loose parts, over the years the connection points could degrade by corrosion. Not everyone will take care to avoid this. You always have to consider that most people don't concern themselves with details, so the simplest choice is the least problematic.
    HagerHedgie likes this.
  12. Mowcowbell

    Mowcowbell Active Member

    "the simplest choice is the least problematic"... that's probably why Honda didn't list the OEM EVSE as being a 120-240v device. They figured most drivers would just overnight charge using 120v.
  13. ab13

    ab13 Active Member

  14. Tomrl

    Tomrl Member

    cost more than 20 bucks, but it's pretty nice.


    Just installed today. I was very impressed w/ the entire packaging and installation set up, classy and complete. They even provide the correct bit and nut driver. Top notch product, not so impressed w/ the app. so far, probably just continue to use HondaLink.
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  15. Mowcowbell

    Mowcowbell Active Member

    Would like to have a GoPlug Pro 40 to be able to track my energy usage. $499 is a lot to spend for a little information.
    AlanSqB likes this.
  16. AlanSqB

    AlanSqB Active Member

    Advanced kit bundle on sale right now for $375 with free shipping. If you have a screwdriver, you can do it!
    Mowcowbell likes this.
  17. dannieboiz

    dannieboiz New Member

    I couldn' t agree more, B
    I couldn't agree more, If you have an EV it makes sense to have solar. Not all systems are created equal and you need to plan your usage to make it worth while. In 2016, I installed a 7.3Kw system. I did not plan for an EV at this time or else I would have gone with a bigger system. at the end of the year, PGE ended up paying me back something like $80. The following year, we bought a Nissan Leaf. That entire year, I paid about $800 in electricity bill all together.

    In the SF Bay, our rate is $0.25kWh on tier one and it starts to get really expensive once you hit the higher tire. My average electricity bill was $200/month before solar. After 7.5 years the solar would have paid for itself and my electricity is practically free.

    BTW: I'm using a modified version of the original Nissan Leaf Level 1 charger as a level 2, 240v on the clarity. I gave the original honda charger to the buyer of my Leaf. Charges in about 4.5 hours from empty. It's rather safe to do so because it maxes out at 16amps.
  18. Right off, has anyone had any issues pumping 240v into the stock Honda charging cable? Any at all?

    Today I compiled the elements to make an adapter cable, to run from my 240V L14-30R generator receptacle to the stock cable's 15A plug, plus the necessary lubricant:


    I decided to use 8' of SJOOW 10ga/3 conductor cable to give a little more reach. I will mark the 15A receptacle very clearly that its "NOT FOR 120V APPLICATIONS".

    I'm still a bit hesitant, but from what's been posted here, it should work, right?
  19. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    Wouldn’t it make more sense from a safety and Code standpoint to make the extension cord have identical male and female 240 V ends so no one could mistakenly plug in a 120V plug and play human bug zapper?
    Then you use an adapter that stays plugged into the end of your charger (not the extension cord) that posts seem to to indicate can run OK on 240 V. Also going this route let’s you buy a generator cord instead of having to make your own. I’m not gonna do any of this ans not advocating this use of the OEM EVSE, but you and everyone else are of course free to make you’re own choice.

    Also, I think (not an EE) that the ampacity or wire gauge is driven by the size of the breaker/circuit and not the anticipated load. So then a 40 Amp circuit would need 8 gauge wire not 10 gauge. What size is the breaker in this circuit?
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
    insightman likes this.
  20. JCA

    JCA Active Member

    If this is really a generator inlet, it's not going to work -- first of all, the direction is wrong (the inlet should have male prongs that you plug the female end of a cord into), and there's a transfer switch or interlock that will prevent the inlet from being energized from the street power.

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