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Kyle scary CCS-1 trip

Discussion in 'General' started by bwilson4web, Jul 3, 2021.

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  1. Jul 3, 2021 #1
    bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Huntsville, AL
    I first used CCS-1 chargers in 2016 only to find them slow, expensive, and unreliable. Then in April 2021, Kyle goes on a cross country trip:

    After six years, Kyle's video show nothing has changed.

    Since 2019, my SuperCharger experience has been fast, reliable, and affordable. Within 20 seconds, the car, a Tesla, is charging and often completes so rapidly I have to move it to avoid idling fees.

    IMHO, when EV dealers have a 24x7 available, fast DC charger, like the Tesla Service Centers, I'll take another look. But today, an EV becomes a charging orphan when driven off the lot ... except for the SuperCharger compatible Teslas.

    The others are not selling EV driving as a product but anything to take your money and ignore your charging on the road afterwards.

    Bob Wilson

    ps. Sorry to vent but recently I had a discussion with a CCS-1 advocate who wanted Tesla to 'let them in.' I soon realized they wanted to kill SuperChargers instead of fixing their CCS-1 problem(s). In my family, you don't get seconds until you clean your plate.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021

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  2. Jul 3, 2021 #2
    ericy

    ericy Well-Known Member

    Rehoboth Beach, Delaware
    That's just one trip, and possibly bugs related to the Mustang implementation of plug-and-charge, and I believe have all been fixed by now. These days, most CCS charging is uneventful.
     
  3. Jul 3, 2021 #3
    bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Huntsville, AL
    From day one, SuperChargers have been boring and over time, both Tesla cars and chargers have gotten better. For example, new my Model 3 would peak charge at 100 kW on the 120 kW SuperChargers. Today, my Model 3 has a peak charge at 170 kW on the 250 kW SuperChargers. That is 170/100 ~= 70% faster peak charge with potential 250/120 ~= 108% faster charging capability. My Tesla did not change but the SuperChargers were upgraded by Tesla.

    Bob Wilson
     
  4. Jul 3, 2021 #4
    hobbit

    hobbit Well-Known Member

    Bahstahn
    170 kW? Is Tesla really passing over 400 amps through that same stock connector of theirs, or
    has that been beefed up somehow?

    _H*
     
  5. Jul 3, 2021 #5
    ericy

    ericy Well-Known Member

    Rehoboth Beach, Delaware
    Peak charge rates are really just good for clickbait headlines. Some cars maintain high rates for only a couple of minutes, and then drop down. The overall charging curve is what is really important.

    And I have seen some of Kyle's roadtrip videos where he has to use a cold washcloth on the supercharger plug to reduce the temperature and maintain a higher charge rate.

    In the long term, I suspect 800V is where we all need to go, but getting there is easier said than done.
     

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  6. Jul 3, 2021 #6
    hobbit

    hobbit Well-Known Member

    Bahstahn
    It'll take me a while to get through the vid, but soon into it: if there's a worry about "thermal throttling" the
    pack, we'd want to think to whip out the OBD-2 app and ask it [for which Ford would have provided the necessary
    query data so for this technical promotion] and ask it, or just reach under the car and *feel* the bottom?

    And yes, no surprise that plug-n-charge takes forever. For all we know EA was fetching data from Ford to
    load the car's first certificate, unless they'd done that already. Again, that protocol is a nightmare.

    _H*
     
  7. Jul 3, 2021 #7
    Fastnf

    Fastnf Well-Known Member

    Tehachapi Calif, 2023 F150 Lightning Pro
    I can only speak from my own experience on the west coast over the past 2 years. All of my ccs charging has been uneventful and simple. I have done 2000 mile road trips from so Cal up through Oregon and am never concerned about the ccs infrastructure. I use the free cal trans chargers along with EA, EVgo and, ChargePoint. Sample data point of one.

    I might add that I use plug share and only select DCFC’s. That have ratings of 8 or higher on a scale of 1-10. I am sure that helps
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  8. Jul 3, 2021 #8
    R P

    R P Well-Known Member

    Vancouver, BC, Canada 2023 Solterra Tech Pkg
    Where I live (BC) CCS chargers are plentiful and many are free. Never had any problems charging with them. It is the Tesla superchargers that are lacking off the main routes. My son has a Tesla M3 and he had to buy an additional Chademo adapter, $600, so he could travel off the main routes in BC, incl up north. And they are limited to 50 kW.

    I don't think it will be long before CCS becomes dominant in the US as well, with all the new non-Tesla EVs coming available.
     
  9. Jul 3, 2021 #9
    ericy

    ericy Well-Known Member

    Rehoboth Beach, Delaware
    Perhaps the real problem is a lack of charging infrastructure once you get off the beaten path. Major cities and interstates for the most part are covered now.

    The nearest 50kW CCS from my home is 30 miles away (50kW). The nearest Electrify America is 90 miles away. Which I can easily reach, so it isn't a big deal (and then charge at home). But we are in a huge tourist area and the tourists are definitely here this year. A lot of companies just don't want to invest in infrastructure in areas where the usage is so seasonal.

    I note that EVgo is installing chargers with both CCS and Tesla. The writing is on the wall for CHAdeMo, but if it was mainly Teslas that were using it, they would still be covered. It is the Leaf that is on borrowed time.
     

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  10. Jul 3, 2021 #10
    bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Huntsville, AL
    The V3, 250 kW, chargers have a slightly thicker, liquid cooled cable. Early Model S plaid charging curves show it is effective:

    At a nominal 400 V pack voltage, the Model S Plaid, 250 kW / 400 V = 625 A. In +90 F weather, I hear a cooling fan start in the V3 SuperCharger housing even with my 170 kW / 400 = 425 A, Model 3.

    Some early EVgo fast DC chargers were limited to 50 kW. I look forward to seeing the dual plug units being performance tested.

    Bob Wilson
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  11. Jul 3, 2021 #11
    marshall

    marshall Well-Known Member

    South Puget Sound
    1. BC has done a very good job of providing non-Tesla chargers. However, Tesla is still adding chargers too. Over the last month, I see three new Tesla locations and two new ones under construction.
     
  12. Jul 3, 2021 #12
    ericy

    ericy Well-Known Member

    Rehoboth Beach, Delaware
    True for the 1st gen chargers. I have seen newer chargers that are in the 150kW range (don't remember the exact spec).
     
  13. Jul 3, 2021 #13
    bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Huntsville, AL
    • Tesla SuperCharger installations are supported by Tesla EV sales and usage patterns. They are 24x7 accessible even at Tesla service centers.
    • CCS-1 installations have a different set of design rules. They all but do not exist at other EV dealers where even their L2 EVSEs are locked up outside of business hours.
    Tesla is selling EV transportation. The others have a different set of business practices.

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. Jul 3, 2021 #14
    marshall

    marshall Well-Known Member

    South Puget Sound
  15. Jul 3, 2021 #15
    bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Huntsville, AL
    In February 2020, Kyle did a trip through a SuperCharger desert between Oklahoma City (OKC) and Little Rock on I-40.

    When I did that segment in April 2021, there were two new SuperChargers:
    • Ozark AR, near Fort Smith between OKC and Little Rock - originally I used an L2 network at this truck stop.
    • Brinkley AR, half-way between Little Rock and Memphis TN
    These were not funded as part of court fine for the diesel cheat. Rather, they come from Tesla sales of their EVs, a sustainable revenue source. They are operated to make Tesla EVs a practical, cross country vehicle:
    • Are other EV manufacturers funding CCS-1 charging stations?
    • Are other EV manufacturers operating CCS-1 charging stations?
    • Are EV dealers offering 24x7, CCS-1 charging stations?
    I welcome the pioneer efforts showing CCS-1 is 'less bad' than 2016 when I got a BMW i3-REx. It is good that other EVs are meeting the cognitive style of other owners. But Kyle's April 2021 drive of a Mach-E is not inspiring.

    Bob Wilson

    ps. My 2014 BMW i3-REx is an announced 'orphan', discontinued by BMW. So we may soon be in the market for a replacement with these requirements:
    • 28 kW/100 mi minimum efficiency
    • fast DC chargers every 120-180 along common routes
    • ~250 mi EV range at 100% SOC
    • 150 kW peak charge rate
    Happily, there are used EVs that meet the above requirements.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  16. Jul 4, 2021 #16
    marshall

    marshall Well-Known Member

    South Puget Sound
    Yes! There are Nissan and GM funded EVgo chargers in Seattle. See the above post with their locations.

    https://dot.la/gm-evgo-2652815992.html

    https://www.engadget.com/2019-08-06-nissan-evgo-charger-expansion.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZXZnby5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADu6Ac_KPtTU6liZ2mvf9nHqwKGnColBKq2knmykWzmtvf9iXadhL3f-xrR6mnv-UKWKsYndmpWmcZ4Gdkr521LnEAq6o_6ju6jGMW_u8dZBr_j21S9aYHBitBo71gAWvfV88DfANFdWOpaWjWbVb8fg3OPqIXDzUh6F01pWViS4
     
  17. Jul 4, 2021 #17
    bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Huntsville, AL

    "The financial support GM is providing to EVgo has accelerated our station deployment plans in 40 metropolitan areas across the U.S.," EVgo CEO Cathy Zoi said in a statement. "By year-end, EVgo expects to have approximately 500 stalls from the GM/ EVgo collaboration live, and we are just getting started."

    GM and EVgo partnered last year to add 2,700 fast-charging stations across the United States by 2025. That has so far produced just four stations, none in Southern California.    ​


    Nissan is adding 200 more chargers to its network

    But it's unclear where or when.    ​

    Citing a link without adding a text excerpt often means the claimed source needs to be read so a skeptic can quote the relevant text. So compare and contrast that Tesla provides 100% of the SuperCharger network hardware and operations. But based on these two source, the other EV makers are offering very much less than 1% of the CCS-1 fast DC chargers.

    Bob Wilson
     
  18. Jul 4, 2021 #18
    Clamps

    Clamps Active Member

    Stoneham, MA, USA, 2020 Kona Ultimate
    All I can say is I took a 2000 mile round trip from Boston to Milwaukee and my only charging hassle was with an EVConnect station which eventually worked just fine if not a little slow. The majority of the trip was with EA and it became fairly seamless once I sorted my account. EVGo and ChargePoint were easy too but there charging speed was slow.

    I do like the Tesla model of the cars software being interconnected. Still the easiest way to drive an EV on a long trip.

    My biggest gripe with long distance travel and charging is station locations.

    And is isn’t EA supported by VW?
     
  19. Jul 4, 2021 #19
    marshall

    marshall Well-Known Member

    South Puget Sound
    But it's unclear where or when

    There are two locations in Seattle that have the Nissan/EVgo 100KW chargers. They are located at the two Whole Foods stores in the downtown.

    There is one 350KW/100 KW GM/EVgo location in Seattle. It's located at Ballard Blocks.

    Note that there are no Tesla Superchargers here in Pierce county Wa. This county is the second most populous county in Washington state and has the third highesr number of electric vehicles in the state, but not one freaking Supercharger.

    However, there are three EVgo locations, and two Electrify America locations in Pierce county with a third Electrify America location in the works.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  20. Jul 4, 2021 #20
    bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Huntsville, AL

    "Partial Repair"
    https://www.plugshare.com/location/312243

    The recent comments suggests Ballard Blocks has operational problems:
    Source: https://www.plugshare.com/location/312385

    Hopefully these operational problems will be soon cleared.

    We don't have a Supercharger in Madison County AL either. However, the nearest SuperCharger is located about 17 miles away, just off I-65, a major North-South Interstate in Athens AL. Regardless, well within 100% SOC range:
    • Tupelo MS
    • Memphis TN
    • Nashville TN
    • Manchester TN
    • Chattanooga TN
    • Atlanta GA
    • Birmingham AL
    The Tesla approach is SuperChargers support cross country driving and limited local charging. They recommend L2 chargers instead. So far, it has worked well.

    Bob Wilson
     
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