Any outlook for large batteries (more range) for future Mini's?

Discussion in 'MINI Cooper SE' started by The Dark Side, Sep 16, 2021.

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  1. Texas22Step

    Texas22Step Well-Known Member

    Thanks from me too, except the Mustang photo isn't my neighbor's car (I wi$h!), but rather a photo of my very first new car over 50 years ago (showing how old I am!).
     
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  3. MustangMan

    MustangMan New Member

    My MINI as a second car and BEV is just peachy from my perspective, range, handling, charging all good.
     
  4. Cindy B

    Cindy B Member

    I wanted to give a rebate update specifically for Arizona. SRP's $1000 rebate has already expired after just starting in April. Very disappointing, as we had calculated the rebate into the costs of buying our SE. The offer ran out of money on 30Aug21 according to SRP's website. I can only assume it was due to the plethora of new Teslas that I see on the road everywhere here now.
     
  5. Luis Hoffer

    Luis Hoffer New Member

    The F56 shape reported here has a drag coefficient of .28

    I was surprised to see that this is not that far off other ground up EV's listed below
    1. VW ID 4 cd: 0.28
    2. Mustang Mach E cd: 0.30
    3. BMW I3 cd: .30
    4. Honda Ioniq 5 cd:0.288
    5. Polestar 2 cd: 0.278
    6. Audi e-tron cd: 0.28
    The shape although not Model 3 or Taycan slippery still aids in its ability average 4.4 kwh
     
  6. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    4a. Hyundai Ioniq 5 cd: 0.288
    4b. Honda e cd: 0.27
     
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  8. CuriousGeorge

    CuriousGeorge Active Member

    This may help put the Cd numbers in context for anyone not familiar with them.

    upload_2021-9-24_9-53-55.png

    (Drag force = 0.5 x air density x Cd x frontal area x velocity^2. Power to overcome aero drag = 0.5 x air density x Cd x frontal area x velocity^3)
     
  9. Puppethead

    Puppethead Well-Known Member

    I'm curious how much lower it is with the addition of the slits in place of the fog lights. From what I've read those slits make a big difference and have been adopted by many car makers.
     
  10. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    I, too, would love to know what MINI knows about the cD of the 2020/2021 vs 2022 SE.

    Are the slits responsible for the EPA range jump from 110 to 114 miles? Perhaps the cD didn't change much because if the slits produced an EPA range of 125 miles, MINI would boast about it. Did the 2022's less-aerodynamic grille prevent a jump in the range to 125 miles? No matter; I drove an aerodynamic wonder (gen-1 Honda Insight) for 20 years, but being able to achieve 85 mpg was nowhere near as much fun as driving my SE.

    Our Honda Clarity Plug-In Hybrid has all kinds of aero tricks, including a full-length underbody fairing, cut-off rear wheel-well arches and air-curtain slits for BOTH the front and rear wheels. You'd think Honda would be proud of the results of those tweaks, but the company has never divulged the car's cD.

    I laugh when I think about the 2019 letter I wrote to head designer Oliver Heilmer, begging him to help me get an SE without a hood scoop (none of his conceptual drawings, concept cars or prototypes for the SE had hood scoops). In an effort to butter him up by applauding his sense of design, I included in my letter a close-up photo of the driver-side fog-light area and told him how I thought this part of the SE was an example of perfect design incorporating a classic element. Of course, with the lead-time required to make the changes for 2022, Mr. Heilmer already knew the gorgeous fog lights were being replaced with slits when he received my letter.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
  11. CuriousGeorge

    CuriousGeorge Active Member

    You could conduct some highway range testing (or other field tests) with and without them taped over to come up with an estimate.
     
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  13. Puppethead

    Puppethead Well-Known Member

    Well not me, I have a 2021 SE without air curtain slits. But it's a good idea.
     
  14. CuriousGeorge

    CuriousGeorge Active Member

    Box cutter? ;)
     
  15. Carsten Haase

    Carsten Haase Well-Known Member

    Stumbled across this on Reddit (supposedly a recall for a small number of battery modules).

    The battery is a lot thinner than I thought it was! The case is obvious but you can also see the modules on the left below the car

    DH0G14m.jpg
     
    insightman likes this.
  16. polyphonic

    polyphonic Well-Known Member

    SE recall? I don't see it on the NHTSA website.
     
  17. Lainey

    Lainey Well-Known Member

    The Leaf was in my list of cars I looked at in 2020. Because of the pandemic there were 2019s on the lot for cheap i could've traded my 2016 Mini S and only had to come up with $5k to pay the difference which I could have recouped and then some at tax time. I was soooo close to doing so because of the deal. I didn't for a reason... and it was because of how boring the Leaf was to drive. Sporty is not even close to how the Leaf drove.
     
  18. vader

    vader Active Member

    If research follows the current trajectory, the next thing in batteries will (as others have mentioned) probably be solid state. This removes almost half the battery size (think taking the top piece of bread off a sandwich), which in turn decreases the weight for the same capacity battery. You can have a lighter battery of the same size, or a larger capacity for the same size. This could almost double your range overnight. Luckily, our MINIs will be good for 8-10 years before needing to change batteries, so there is a chance that we can make use of these new batteries. Think of the original leafs that have new battery packs - they doubled their range due to better packaging.

    As far as the debate over a dedicated package vs "compliance", MINI did an amazing job. Their "compliance" car is a stunning bit of engineering which minimised the cost and time to market. If you compare the performance of the system with one of its closest rivals (Honda e), the Honda has no advantages from being a bespoke platform. It is heavier, slower, less efficient, lower range, lower performance, more expensive - in fact, the only area it trumps the MINI is in sheer technological grunt. This has nothing to do with the platform though.

    The rally MINI (or the formula e pacesetter) removed about 100kg of weight by effectively stripping the car. You could add 100kg of batteries for around 50% more range (give or take). Personally I wouldn't even consider it. Lightening by using carbon fibre (as in the i3) would do the job, but would add significant cost. I think the engineers over at MINI (BMW) did a cracking job of juggling the tradeoffs between range and performance. I wouldn't change a thing (until SS batteries ;) )
     
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  19. Carsten Haase

    Carsten Haase Well-Known Member

    Solid state could be a revolution or they could be eternally stuck in a lab... but a properly done EV specific chassis (no clue what Honda was doing...) can get a battery energy density of 260Wh/kg today. The MINI is currently at 163 Wh/kg (with the full 32.6kWh). That's almost the double you were expecting from solid state!

    To look at it another way, the MINI could lose 75kg (165lb) with today's technology without changing the range.

    The engineers absolutely did a great job on design, manufacturing, and cost but think how much better they could do if they didn't have one hand tied behind their backs by an existing chassis!
     
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  20. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    I drove nothing but Hondas since 1986 (CRX Si, CRX Si, Insight, Insight, Insight, Clarity Plug-In Hybrid) and when the Honda e was announced for Europe, I wrote many, many letters to Honda, begging them to bring that car to the US. If they had agreed, I'd have been robbed of the best car I've ever driven: my MINI Cooper SE. I don't need 5 screens extending the entire width of the dashboard. Heck, I barely use my SE's center screen--it's always displaying the clock. I want my car to be fun to drive, like my CRXs were.

    Being a Honda fan for so long, I was surprised that Honda's clean-sheet design couldn't easily best MINI's electric make-over, but it didn't. It's possible that MINI could have done better than the SE with a clean-sheet design but I don't know how. The only change I'd ask for would be to add more lightness. If the holy grail of the solid-state battery comes to pass, I expect the aftermarket will come through to help me make my SE even perfecter.
     
    Lainey likes this.
  21. Puppethead

    Puppethead Well-Known Member

    I wonder if the shift to China assembly is MINI's plan to go to a dedicated EV platform, without disrupting things at Oxford for the time being. Since MINI seems committed to going all EV I'd be surprised if they haven't been working on a new platform.
     
  22. Sully151

    Sully151 Member

    They may have to go bigger if the US tax credit changes with the new proposed Bill.
     
  23. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member

    Yes, there will be a new platform. Yes, it will be made by Great Wall Motors in China. Yes, it will be bigger--and heavier. Our SEs will become highly sought-after by drivers who don't want a larger MINI EV that's trying to compete with Tesla.
     
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