Another Extremely Poor Tesla Model 3 Quality and Experience

Bob Long said:
That's Tesla for you! I live in Norway and had a Model S which I sold after just 10 months. Every time I took it to our local Tesla dealer with a problem, I got the same reply "That's Normal"....Tesla came rock bottom in the customer's satisfaction list, and Volvo came top. Because of this we decided not to buy a Model 3 and opted for a Hyundai Kona EV. Best decision ever! :)
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Well Tesla's ace-in-the-hole is that most folks find the model 3 is so much fun to drive that they over look the issues. Apparently you couldn't.

What I find interesting is that there are so few used ones for sale for what you and two others think is a crappy car, not to mention the 4 week plus wait time of a newly built one. I guess that goes back to the consensus that the cars are too much fun to drive.

See the Bloomberg survey. https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-tesla-model-3-survey/
 
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ven cho said:
I do not agree "problems do happen with every make and model". Even cheap cars by most of the rest car manufacturer are with good quality, I mean in most cases.
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Well of course they do happen with every make and model. That's why there are "lemon laws". You'd think from what some Tesla detractors and Tesla bashers say, that there was no need for lemon laws until Tesla came along.

Reality check: "Lemon laws" have been around a lot longer than Tesla has!
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Bob Long said:
opted for a Hyundai Kona EV.
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So how long have you owned the Kona? Miles (or km?)

The CCS-2 charging network in the EU appears to be well developed with multiple networks and reasonable, fast DC, charging rates. I don't know about the cost to charge as apparently each network has their own price structure.

Have you done any long trips that required remote charging?

Bob Wilson
 
ven cho said:
I do not agree "problems do happen with every make and model". Even cheap cars by most of the rest car manufacturer are with good quality, I mean in most cases.
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If you spend any time on forums dedicated to any particular make or model, there's a high probability you'll encounter owners who have experienced frustrating quality issues with their vehicles.
 
To add a datapoint, the ‘Tesla Model Club’ is an excellent place to bring up quality problems. But I don’t spend much time there.

I spend more time in the ‘Tesla Owners Forum’ as they are more hands on like me.

I’m here for EVSE and charger news and discussion. For example, I just got my NEMA 14-30 adapter that I’ll test at a Shorepower truck station this week. I have a cheap EVSE that works BUT they knocked off the safety ground that differentiates a NEMA 14-30 from a NEMA 14-50.

Bob Wilson
 
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Bob Long said:
That's Tesla for you! I live in Norway and had a Model S which I sold after just 10 months. Every time I took it to our local Tesla dealer with a problem, I got the same reply "That's Normal"....Tesla came rock bottom in the customer's satisfaction list, and Volvo came top. Because of this we decided not to buy a Model 3 and opted for a Hyundai Kona EV. Best decision ever! :)
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What customer satisfaction list are you referring to?
 
Pushmi-Pullyu said:
Obviously not Consumer Reports' survey of automobile customer satisfaction, where Tesla comes in at #1 every year. The Model S only got bumped out of first place by the Model 3.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/2019/02/05/model-3-tops-consumer-reports-satisfaction-survey/
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Well, when you pay the big bucks for a Tesla, you had better like it..., haha.
But that is not a reliability survey. None of Tesla's models make it into Consumer Reports top ten most reliable cars.
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/02/10-reliable-cars-2019-according-crs-annual-survey/

2020 survey results should be out soon.
 
R P said:
Well, when you pay the big bucks for a Tesla, you had better like it..., haha.
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I don't think the cost has much to do with it. The consensus is that the car is just fun to drive! Plus, the over-the-air updates are like getting a new toy every few months to play with.

I wouldn't be surprised to see more electric cars on the satisfaction list in the following years, simply because of the driving experience.
 
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marshall said:
I don't think the cost has much to do with it. The consensus is that the car is just fun to drive!
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You kidding!!?? It is an old well known corollary that the more you pay for a car, the more likely you will say that you like it. German luxury cars are the best example. They traditionally have got the highest satisfaction surveys, but often terrible reliability surveys.

I actually like the the residual value surveys (KBB, ALG, etc) the best. Nothing like what people are really willing to pay for a used car to indicate true desirability and value of a brand or model. Since Teslas have not changed much over the last 5 years, they should score very highly with these surveys. And indeed they do.
https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-i...s-tesla-and-technology-headline-luxury-story/

And in general, Tesla is really hurting traditional luxury brand residuals.
https://www.autonews.com/used-cars/luxury-residuals-fall-some-cite-tesla

But back to reliability, Tesla still has a ways to go, even with the latest M3s.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car...es-cr-recommendation-over-reliability-issues/
 
R P said:
You kidding!!?? It is an old well known corollary that the more you pay for a car, the more likely you will say that you like it. German luxury cars are the best example. They traditionally have got the highest satisfaction surveys, but often terrible reliability surveys.

I actually like the the residual value surveys (KBB, ALG, etc) the best. Nothing like what people are really willing to pay for a used car to indicate true desirability and value of a brand or model. Since Teslas have not changed much over the last 5 years, they should score very highly with these surveys. And indeed they do.
https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-i...s-tesla-and-technology-headline-luxury-story/

And in general, Tesla is really hurting traditional luxury brand residuals.
https://www.autonews.com/used-cars/luxury-residuals-fall-some-cite-tesla

But back to reliability, Tesla still has a ways to go, even with the latest M3s.
https://www.consumerreports.org/car...es-cr-recommendation-over-reliability-issues/
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CR changed there mind:
https://www.consumerreports.org/car...del-s-regain-consumer-reports-recommendation/
 
R P said:
None of Tesla's models make it into Consumer Reports top ten most reliable cars.
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Would anyone expect them to?

I would expect the most reliable cars to be among the best-selling cars (not light trucks), all of which sell for $28k or less, all of which are much simpler cars with far fewer parts, and all of which are made in significantly larger numbers than any Tesla model.

The Tesla Model 3 was specifically designed to compete with the Audi A4 and (if I recall correctly) the BMW 3-Series. It would be interesting to see a reliability comparison between those three models.

But I wouldn't expect Consumer Reports to be able to tabulate their reliability survey results correctly. They have fumbled on that to a shocking degree, as the following chart shows:

Model%20S.jpg

How in the world can they come up with an overall "Poor" rating for the 2015 Model S, when their survey results range from many "Excellent" ratings down to, at worst, a single "Fair" rating?

And I've seen similar complaints, on this forum, from Honda Clarity PHEV owners; complaints that CR's reviews don't at all match their experience.

It appears to me that Consumer Reports simply isn't competent at rating EVs.
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Well, I wouldn't expect Tesla fans to like CR's ratings of their fav car. But unlike Tesla, and most (or all) of the other survey rating organizations, they are the most independent, and do not have the subject manufacturers as clients or sponsors. So their ratings carry far more weight than most others.

But as I said earlier, I also like the residual value surveys, because they are betting on actual future values. They have a lot of expertise in that area (and reputation at stake) since their clients (financial corps, underwriters, etc) depend on the accuracy of that information for their business.
 
Pushmi-Pullyu said:
It appears to me that Consumer Reports simply isn't competent at rating EVs.
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Just following up with nearly two decades of Prius punking.

R P said:
So their ratings carry far more weight than most others.
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Consumer Reports has spent their whole time running down every model of Prius that came out. The worst being their "mileage" number that is impossible to replicate except by:
  1. Cold start the car
  2. Floor the accelerator for ~1.5 miles
  3. Wet, wash, rinse, repeat
Worse, they don't give ANY 'score' points for efficiency.

Bob Wilson
 
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bwilson4web said:
Just following up with nearly two decades of Prius punking.


Consumer Reports has spent their whole time running down every model of Prius that came out. The worst being their "mileage" number that is impossible to replicate except by:
  1. Cold start the car
  2. Floor the accelerator for ~1.5 miles
  3. Wet, wash, rinse, repeat
Worse, they don't give ANY 'score' points for efficiency.

Bob Wilson
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Don't know about that??... Here, Consumer Reports rates the Prius best reliability of all cars, incl EVs. Mine was certainly a champ.
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/02/10-reliable-cars-2019-according-crs-annual-survey/
Perhaps the older ones were not as good, but certainly the newer ones were rated very highly.
 
R P said:
But back to reliability, Tesla still has a ways to go, even with the latest M3s.
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I am not a Tesla basher. I actually clicked on the report link to read the report.

Again, I have no way of verifying the data that CR used but here are some actual quotes from the article including the Tesla response. Tesla does acknowledge there were reliability problems, but believes they have been solved. If they have been solved, it will take a year or more for them to get to CR ratings as CR does this only once a year. One could legitimately believe that CR emphasizes the wrong thing, but you have to remember they have been consistent in their methodology for years. And emphasizing reliability is not a bad things. That does not mean that they are biased against Tesla or EVs. The article in fact seems to praise Tesla more than once. And CR acknowledges that this is not first time that enthusiasts have questioned CRs motives.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car...es-cr-recommendation-over-reliability-issues/


While Teslas perform well in Consumer Reports’ road tests and have excellent owner satisfaction, their reliability has not been consistent, according to our members, which has resulted in changes to their recommended status,” says Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at Consumer Reports.

Tesla currently holds the top spot on our list of brands that satisfy owners the most, based on their new vehicle lineup.


“In most cases, reliability issues will undermine satisfaction,” Fisher adds. “But when a vehicle has an enthusiastic following, like with Tesla, owners may overlook some issues. We’ve seen this with other vehicles such as the Jeep Wrangler and Chevrolet Corvette.”




Tesla’s Response

A Tesla spokesperson said the automaker has already made “significant improvements” to correct the issues that Model 3 owners raised with CR. “The vast majority of these issues have already been corrected through design and manufacturing improvements, and we are already seeing a significant improvement in our field data,” the spokesperson wrote in an emailed statement to CR. “We take feedback from our customers very seriously and quickly implement improvements any time we hear about issues.”
 
R P said:
Well, I wouldn't expect Tesla fans to like CR's ratings of their fav car.
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As a Tesla fan, I like Consumer Reports' annual surveys of car owner customer satisfaction just fine, thanks. :cool:

But that aside, it's rather odd that CR writes as if "reliability" -- by which they apparently mean not having to make an unscheduled trip to the service shop, and nothing else -- is the only important thing when it comes to choosing a car. If that was the case, then people would only buy very basic cars which have relatively little that can go wrong with them. Nobody would be buying more expensive cars if reliability was more important than everything else.

CR's ratings are biased against Tesla in several ways. One of those ways is that it compares all cars equally, rather than comparing those in different price segments only to each other. Comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Honda Accord makes sense. Comparing those to a Tesla Model S or even a Model 3... rather less so.
 
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