Sondors car

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Harvey

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so, whatever has happened to the sondors? no real news in some time, and was supposed to start production about april. i also don't see it in other cars here either.
i thought it actually a pretty sharp design and with room for 3 a better deal than a solo.
https://sondorselectriccar.com/
 
no info from anywhere? last i can see of any info is it is to start production this month, and their sign up/$100 deposit isn't available any more either.
essentially nothing since about the end of last year seems to be around.
like i said, i don't see it listed with other evs here either.

conclusion, i guess nobody knows any more than i do.:D
might have to start commuting a short distance for work and seen it as a cheap available vehicle that would be just right with it's more than 1 person design so it can actually be used as a small family car too.
or more room for groceries, etc.
 
i will. first round of deposits has gone by, or they just stopped accepting them. well, i hope it pans out for him. feds have a plan to put a $5k rebate in place for evs.
won't expect it provincially, as i think as of tomorrow we'll have our version of trump taking over here.
well, til the next news then.
 
sondors had a very popular electric bike too.
you hear of others going broke, or delays.
nothing yet anywhere if they even are close to production, or if it's a bust.
although i think it was for the app, this month was the roll out for sure.
sharp car, cheap price.
 
Harvey said:
sondors had a very popular electric bike too.
you hear of others going broke, or delays.
nothing yet anywhere if they even are close to production, or if it's a bust.
although i think it was for the app, this month was the roll out for sure.
sharp car, cheap price.
Click to expand...
I keep getting promotional emails for the Sondors electric bikes but nothing for the electric car. No single news or any update from them about the status of Sondors electric car! Makes me suspicious of them!
 
This Sondors situation is kind of odd.

Their "team" page includes a bunch of people who don't work for them directly. The first guy listed, for instance, used to work for Tesla, but his LinkedIn page doesn't mention Sondors. The next two -- vehicle design and engineering -- work for Torino Design. The guy tagged as "operations" calls himself an advisor on his LinkedIn. The "tech development" guy doesn't mention Sondors on his LinkedIn page either. The woman tagged as "marketing" doesn't mention Sondors on her LinkedIn page either, where she calls herself a "Life Coach." The lady tagged as "business development" does have Sonders listed on her LinkedIn account, but left the company back in April after being with them for a mere 7 months.

It also seems like they've fallen behind on their "aggressive roadmap." That's unsurprising, of course, but a professional outfit might have updated its website. This is from a screenshot taken just now.

Sondors-roadmap.webp
 
Domenick said:
This Sondors situation is kind of odd.

Their "team" page includes a bunch of people who don't work for them directly. The first guy listed, for instance, used to work for Tesla, but his LinkedIn page doesn't mention Sondors. The next two -- vehicle design and engineering -- work for Torino Design. The guy tagged as "operations" calls himself an advisor on his LinkedIn. The "tech development" guy doesn't mention Sondors on his LinkedIn page either. The woman tagged as "marketing" doesn't mention Sondors on her LinkedIn page either, where she calls herself a "Life Coach." The lady tagged as "business development" does have Sonders listed on her LinkedIn account, but left the company back in April after being with them for a mere 7 months.

It also seems like they've fallen behind on their "aggressive roadmap." That's unsurprising, of course, but a professional outfit might have updated its website. This is from a screenshot taken just now.

View attachment 6910
Click to expand...
This is bizarre! I tried to see if they would accept money for investment but it seems that it closed (I chose investment in STO)?
NoMoreInvestmentSondors.webp
 
clicking yes lets you input your email. i've gotten 2 this year.
but nothing else seems to be going.
occasional posters on faebook wondering when it's coming or where to get their money back.
seemed to have just gone dead at the end of 2018.
other than the little sondors network ploy, its had no movement or update.
but i can see problems at $16.5k, as even the solo costs more and is the same but smaller.
 
WOW!!!! @Domenick thanks for the research. I then went into the site (they use uncertified URLs and my browser flagged it as a security risk). Even though there may not be a risk, it gives impression that something is not right and it is very easy to fix. And what is more surprising is that you have more people with web software development, marketing and investments experience on the team then you have technical staff.

https://sondors.network/

I counted 6 people on technical development side, of which only three of them (one an advisor) have experience in the automotive world. The Vehicle Design person has this previous experience "Global design for Torino. Handling all design and engineering services for global clients.". I looked up Torino and could not find what they do on Google.

The head of operations has this experience "Global operations for TechStyle’s online fashion brands. Serial entrepreneur; operations and online expert. Previously eBay, Spreadshirt, Carfrogger.". Hmmm what does he know about car production? Or is the operations dealing with taking deposits and not car production?

I see all sorts of skills here that leaves me scratching my head as to what their core competency is and why would even put them on your website? Why do you need an "Advisor on Digital assets"? The skill of that person is "A recognized digital securities expert, Tatiana with both traditional and tokenized investments at TD Securities, MachineShop Ventures, and FullCycle."

Going further, the big pitch is to buy the car from them and share it with others? Who pays the insurance and what if your "nice" neighbor borrows your car and transports drugs in that?


Clearly a scheme to raise deposits by selling a dream, buy a car and rent it out. ? Not sure what the deal is here. All I can say is nothing on site inspired me to put down a deposit.
 
Harvey said:
maybe get elon on this and ressurect it.
Click to expand...

To be brutally frank, I do not get the impression that they have anything proprietary or intellectual capital (IC) that will be of interest to any one. Neither do they have dedicated talent that would cause someone to scoop up the company. There seem to be more people who are involved in financial engineering rather than product development and engineering of EVs.

If I were looking to buy some EV technology, I would rather look at what Dyson did (before they decide to go back to Vacuum Cleaners) and see if there is something of value there as they did a through analysis. I do not see the value here.
 
Harvey said:
well, he's not running away or in hiding.
he's still running his electric bike company side of things.
Click to expand...

May be he bit off a lot more than he can chew.

He has three different websites: Sondors.com that sells bikes, sondorselectriccar.com (which does not work) and https://sondors.network/

I found a K-1 filing and Annual report dated May 31st 2018. He does not have one for 2019, so it is past due. (https://sondors.network/current-investors/ )

Read the report and finances, he clearly does not have a business plan or the business plan has changed (he now wants to share cars). I have read so many K-1s, this is a pretty unusual one.

There is only one director (no independent directors, no real board).

He has no cash on hand as on Dec 2017 ($61K is not a lot). He has not filed a report after that. There is no governance structure. There is no detailed risk mitigation plan. A lot of it is taken from marketing material.

He should not have been selling shares. Why would anyone have any confidence that this company is on the path to success. His bike business is a separate entity, so he can declare bankruptcy and not affect his other business. Read the reports and you will see how unusual it is. That is why he has a lot of associates, not employees as he cannot afford salary and wages. Most of the people appear to be people who work on commission or for other companies, so they will do something else if Sondors Car does not have work. What is their motivation to develop a product, if they are not getting paid. You have to have some dedicated employees. Most of there contractors are in marketing, sales, public relations, advertising services. They need manufacturing and design first.

Here are excerpts from the report. A million dollars in Design and Development expenses in 2017 is not going to get you a car. You need several million. If 2018 was great, why is the 2019 report not there? If you have invested money, I think it would safe to write it off for your taxes.

upload_2020-1-1_9-19-12.webp

upload_2020-1-1_7-31-50.webp
upload_2020-1-1_7-29-6.webp

upload_2020-1-1_7-29-58.webp
 
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Probably not 100% right - but just a gut feeling:

I am pretty sure that Sondors is not going anywhere near, if ever, with regards to manufacturing and releasing EV cars. If you look at Tesla, which was founded in 2003 and by 2009 they had released 149 cars, 6 years in the works... Looking at when TSLA went public, 2010, their 10K statement (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000119312511054847/d10k.htm) clearly demonstrates how hard is to be profittable. Tesla delivered, worldwide, around 300K cars on 2019 (thanks to their 35K Tesla3 - so discount the past 2 years and where you only had the Model-S and their SUV to account for their past sales - and that 300K sale is a smaller number in previous years) and they are still not profitable. Toyota in 2019 did +1Miillion car sales, in the US along - it takes a lot more than wilful thinking and sales.

I hope Sondors really knows what he is doing because putting empty promises out there is not enough to shake the market makers, and an electric for $10K... not going to happen (I wouldn't invest unless the numbers looked realistic - $25K-30K at a minimum - and that is still at a loss since you don't have sufficient demand to set up shop and supplies at a discount).

Also, it is silly that a commuter car has to be so "fancy". Driving from home to the train station and back, when all you need is a set of wheels and a battery... why do you even need a fancy console and things of that sort?

Sondors should have made instead of a 3 wheel bike with a single person (or 2 person cabin) - that probably would be better and more realistic near the $10K. I believe he has a bigger chance to make such a commuter bike, rather than the other nonsense. It could be limited to 30-50 Miles range - full charge in 6 hrs at 110V. Think of Toyota's never delivered i-Road https://www.engadget.com/2015/11/17...w2goUBCCmyyg52UvZrxdT49PM0p6_v94qLZoILZPYyrZN).

I think, we probably would have seen these delivered sooner (don't even need the fancy leaning technology of i-Road).
 
buchaca said:
Probably not 100% right - but just a gut feeling:

I am pretty sure that Sondors is not going anywhere near, if ever, with regards to manufacturing and releasing EV cars. If you look at Tesla, which was founded in 2003 and by 2009 they had released 149 cars, 6 years in the works... Looking at when TSLA went public, 2010, their 10K statement (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000119312511054847/d10k.htm) clearly demonstrates how hard is to be profittable. Tesla delivered, worldwide, around 300K cars on 2019 (thanks to their 35K Tesla3 - so discount the past 2 years and where you only had the Model-S and their SUV to account for their past sales - and that 300K sale is a smaller number in previous years) and they are still not profitable. Toyota in 2019 did +1Miillion car sales, in the US along - it takes a lot more than wilful thinking and sales.

I hope Sondors really knows what he is doing because putting empty promises out there is not enough to shake the market makers, and an electric for $10K... not going to happen (I wouldn't invest unless the numbers looked realistic - $25K-30K at a minimum - and that is still at a loss since you don't have sufficient demand to set up shop and supplies at a discount).

Also, it is silly that a commuter car has to be so "fancy". Driving from home to the train station and back, when all you need is a set of wheels and a battery... why do you even need a fancy console and things of that sort?

Sondors should have made instead of a 3 wheel bike with a single person (or 2 person cabin) - that probably would be better and more realistic near the $10K. I believe he has a bigger chance to make such a commuter bike, rather than the other nonsense. It could be limited to 30-50 Miles range - full charge in 6 hrs at 110V. Think of Toyota's never delivered i-Road https://www.engadget.com/2015/11/17...w2goUBCCmyyg52UvZrxdT49PM0p6_v94qLZoILZPYyrZN).

I think, we probably would have seen these delivered sooner (don't even need the fancy leaning technology of i-Road).
Click to expand...

Regarding the i-Road, Toyota made a number of them for programs in Japan and Grenoble, France. Obviously not big numbers, but it has a top speed of 37 miles an hour and a 30-mile range, making its usefulness pretty limited. They're supposedly pretty fun to drive, though, so I wish Toyota would have kept developing it.
 
buchaca said:
I hope Sondors really knows what he is doing because putting empty promises out there is not enough to shake the market makers, and an electric for $10K... not going to happen (I wouldn't invest unless the numbers looked realistic - $25K-30K at a minimum - and that is still at a loss since you don't have sufficient demand to set up shop and supplies at a discount).
Click to expand...

I have no clue what Sondors is trying to do

Is he
  1. Trying to build a 3 wheeler EV that can be produced or sold in mass quantities or
  2. Is it a scam, where he is collecting funds by selling a dream or
  3. Did he start with best intentions and suddenly realized he is over the head and cannot meet his promises?

If it is 1), then tell us what the progress is. If it is 3), admit it and look for help.
 
Frankly, if you look at Sondors bike shop - maybe I am wrong on this one too, but it seems the company does not have inventory at hand - if you want a bike you order and pay a 25% deposit first, then you wait about 1 month... Maybe Sondor's is struggling with bikes.

I do believe he has the best intentions - but a successful business requires a thick skin, and 0 kindness: Look at Apple, Microsoft, Tesla, Amazon - They are horrible to their suppliers, they sell on the high, they are highly profitable, and they make all buy into their dream which in essence helps create more inequality, abuse, and supports their ways of doing business... But this is not a political forum (lol).

So the real question is not Sondors, but who, outside Tesla, will deliver to the niche last 5-mile market? Frankly - 3rd world countries have electrical moppets all over - I rented them and you can ride for them for miles (though the weather conditions are ideal for the battery). Why is it that the US market is always behind the Europeans and the Asians?

Why is it that we have no Renault, Peugeot already with electric cars, and Citroen, Seat, Fiat with upcoming electric cars
https://www.peugeot.co.uk/showroom/new-208/e-208/
https://www.renault.co.uk/electric-vehicles/twizy.html (Saw them running in the south of France - so awesome!)
https://www.renault.co.uk/electric-vehicles/zoe.html (Like the VW - but nicer)
https://www.renault.co.uk/electric-vehicles.html (all their cars, utility and so)

Asia and electric scooters
- Myanmar
- Taiwan
- Vietnam (Vinfast brand)

On top of all - the incentives towards the makers and the consumers are being diminished, and probably will be removed soon. Funny how things are turning out to be - look at China, 30 years ago they were catching up in every market discipline, today they are leading in almost all of them, and electric cars too - they are the largest manufacturer in the world, BYD sells cars and orders to large companies and European governments (https://insideevs.com/news/378584/byd-sold-1000-buses-europe/), turned a city (through government push and support) into all-electric taxis, and even Montreal is buying the fleet of electric taxies from them (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-03/14/c_137894395.htm).

It certainly makes one think as to whether we are really leading much, or we are just scraping the bottom of the barrel, while the world gets the first grabs on everything... We get only to taste the mediocre technology - Tesla should have more competitors... driven competitors - open the doors and force them all to compete with innovation, if Tesla had to fight head to head with other companies (price, innovation, and delivery time) - I am sure ... I would not be typing all of this...

Ooops sorry - ... Sondors, yes... Maybe he is really doing something... or he is just a mouth with nothing to back it up with...
 
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