Price paid, plus dealer info

[hamr4267]

Costco negotiates with the dealer a fixed mark up over invoice. The dealer is supposed to show you the invoice when requested and the calculation for the Costco price. I don't think they give you a copy but of course you can write the numbers down and in theory call Costco to verify, but in the end it comes down to whether you think it is a good price. The Costco website also mentions the $5,000 dealer incentive available in California, however that is where people see a big difference is some dealers pass all or part of the $5,000 to the customer, which in addition to the Costco discount (or regular dealer discount when not using Costco) determines whether it is a great deal or just an okay deal.

At one time people were reporting that when going through Costco you were more likely to get the $5,000 additional discount, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore it all just depends on what an individual dealer is willing to do.

They broke it down, separately for me. A couple thousand for the Costco rebate then a 5000 rebate from them. Unsure if I could have haggled more but I'm not sure I had a leg to stand on due to it being the last one they had. Also while I was sitting there I overheard another salesman Fielding phone calls...I heard him saying Honda Clarity to a few people. I assume he was telling them they don't have anymore currently in stock. But it showed the interest in the cars.

 

[Albert543]

2019

Did you buy the car before or after September 3rd? I'm trying to figure out if socal dealers have different incentives and are willing to keep prices lower compared to NorCal. The NorCal dealers have increased prices by $1,500 after September 3rd. Haven't checked with so cal dealers yet.

 

[ab13]

Just wondering what are the other charges. My purchase was 27.4 w/o TTL. OTD came to 30k. I would have expected yours OTD to be <$900 (30k-900= 29.1)compared to mine.


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Maybe a difference in sales tax. Los Angeles is 10.25% in some places. Orange County usually 7.75%.

 

[Albert543]

The price has gone up $1k or more for the 2019 clarity since September 3rd. Didn't think Honda would reduce incentives with the slow clarity sale numbers and the poor consumer reports reliability review. The current $4000 dealer incentive expires end of October. Interested to see how many they sell the next 2 months. Debating if I should wait until November or December to see if better deals come back. Contacted primo honda in the south Bay and they increased the price $1500 a couple of days ago. Did Honda do the same thing last year with their incentives for the 2018s?

 

[dadancincowz]

Just bought 2019 base clarity for 30,000-1700 state came to 31000 otd from dealer in buffalo, ny.

 

[Raj K]

Maybe a difference in sales tax. Los Angeles is 10.25% in some places. Orange County usually 7.75%.

I got mine in San Diego and paid 7.75%tax. Still a big amount.


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[SSSS]

I am looking to buy new 2018 model from dealer. Does it qualify for 7500 federal tax credit? I am almost done with the deal but want to confirm.

 

[M. Shah]

I am looking to buy new 2018 model from dealer. Does it qualify for 7500 federal tax credit? I am almost done with the deal but want to confirm.

Yes it does if it has not been titled yet

 

[SSSS]

Yes it does if it has not been titled yet

Thank you. This is great. I am making a deal for touring. Will update here once done.

 

[Shan R]

The price has gone up $1k or more for the 2019 clarity since September 3rd. Didn't think Honda would reduce incentives with the slow clarity sale numbers and the poor consumer reports reliability review. The current $4000 dealer incentive expires end of October. Interested to see how many they sell the next 2 months. Debating if I should wait until November or December to see if better deals come back. Contacted primo honda in the south Bay and they increased the price $1500 a couple of days ago. Did Honda do the same thing last year with their incentives for the 2018s?

What was the quote you got?

 

[SSSS]

Thank you. This is great. I am making a deal for touring. Will update here once done.

I got 2018 Touring new (with 19 miles plus 140 miles of driving from dealer to my home) for 28.5K (28,005 for the car and $495 for doc fee). I could have probably done better, but am happy for now.

 

[Landshark]

We got our 2019 Touring 2 weeks ago. List was $37.5K less the $5K Honda incentive.

The dealer had to handle delivery of the car from Eureka, Ca to Brookings, Or, for which they did not add a charge. The entire process took about 1 1/2 hours. I did not choose to haggle on the price. They accommodated our needs, made everything easy and we didn’t have to spend half a day waiting for the salesman to come back from the managers office to see if they’d come down another $250.

Oregon has no sales tax, an additional $2,500 rebate and we’re doing our best to maximize the full $7,500 federal tax credit. Plates and 2 year registration were less than $200. There is a New Vehicle Privilege Tax of .5% or $162. If all goes to plan, net cost will be around $23K.

We also sold my 15 year old car with 175K miles for $3K. So I could stretch the facts a bit and say $20K. Insurance on the new car is about $100/year more than the old one.

 

[Shan R]

I just bought a Base model for $28.3k + TTL in sfbay

 

[Cypress]

Washington State just passed house bill HB 2042. Which reinstates the tax exemption on sales tax for the clarity. Looks like it does not go into effect until August 2019.

Have you seen anything that explains the language in the law related to the sales price that qualifies?

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2019-20/Pdf/Bills/Session Laws/House/2042-S2.SL.pdf

The statute says the sales price plus value of any like trade in not exceeding $45,000. But I’m not sure what they mean but “plus trade in”.

“a vehicle selling price plus trade-in property of like kind for purchased vehicles that:
(I) For a vehicle that is a new vehicle at the time of the purchase date or the date the lease agreement was signed, does not exceed forty-five thousand dollars;”

If for example the car is $45,000, and I trade in a car for $1, that the transaction no longer qualifies, because $45,001 I exceeds the threshold? Or does it mean if the price is $45,001, and I my trade in is $1, that it would qualify?

Also, by “like kind” do they mean a clean energy/EV? So the purchase wouldn’t qualify if I trade in an EV, but would if I trade in an ICE?

Found this on the DOL, but I don’t think their interpretation of the language of the law is correct. Any lawyers out there?

“These price thresholds include both the cost of the vehicle and the value of your trade-in, if applicable.
For example, if the cost of a new vehicle is $48,000, and the value of your trade-in is worth $6,000, you cannot receive the tax exemption. This is because even though the trade-in brought the cost of the vehicle down to $42,000, the new vehicle was still worth over the $45,000 limit. You cannot use a trade-in to lower the price of a vehicle to meet the exemption limits.”

https://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/docs/faq-altfuleexemptions.pdf

 

[Dan Albrich]

I'm not sure this is the correct thread for this question but I'd be curious insurance cost difference for folks lately. I bought my Clarity Touring almost exactly a year ago (Sept 25, 2018). My cost was 35,000. Actual cost with .5% luxury tax, mandatory 4 years of DMV tags etc, was close to $36,000. Not specifically car cost but no way to get it off the lot for less dollars. I paid 6000 down, and borrrowed 30,000 using the honda 0.9percent financing.

I have more than one car. My 2003 Subaru outback station wagon (not having any real value) full coverage in 250K pop town/city cost $30/mo or $180 for six months. That was my normal. I use State Farm. Where I am the Clarity initially cost me $70/mo or $420 each six months -- in short my insurance cost more than doubled. I threatened to leave State Farm and requested their re-rate process. When that completed, I got it down to $50/mo or $300 each six months.

So still $20/mo higher than my two other vehicles even after the rerate process. And yep, I get that a brand new car has more value, will be more expensive to repair, etc but was especially initially much higher than I guessed it would be.

-Dan

 

[Landshark]

Have you seen anything that explains the language in the law related to the sales price that qualifies?

http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2019-20/Pdf/Bills/Session Laws/House/2042-S2.SL.pdf

The statute says the sales price plus value of any like trade in not exceeding $45,000. But I’m not sure what they mean but “plus trade in”.

“a vehicle selling price plus trade-in property of like kind for purchased vehicles that:
(I) For a vehicle that is a new vehicle at the time of the purchase date or the date the lease agreement was signed, does not exceed forty-five thousand dollars;”

If for example the car is $45,000, and I trade in a car for $1, that the transaction no longer qualifies, because $45,001 I exceeds the threshold? Or does it mean if the price is $45,001, and I my trade in is $1, that it would qualify?

Also, by “like kind” do they mean a clean energy/EV? So the purchase wouldn’t qualify if I trade in an EV, but would if I trade in an ICE?

Found this on the DOL, but I don’t think their interpretation of the language of the law is correct. Any lawyers out there?

“These price thresholds include both the cost of the vehicle and the value of your trade-in, if applicable.
For example, if the cost of a new vehicle is $48,000, and the value of your trade-in is worth $6,000, you cannot receive the tax exemption. This is because even though the trade-in brought the cost of the vehicle down to $42,000, the new vehicle was still worth over the $45,000 limit. You cannot use a trade-in to lower the price of a vehicle to meet the exemption limits.”

https://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/docs/faq-altfuleexemptions.pdf

Legislators are gifted when it come to wording laws and regulations in a way that creates the most confusion when read by normal humans. Lawyers just argue about what it all means.

Here’s my take.
Base Clarity is $34K. Maybe you can get the $4K Honda incentive or negotiate to $30K.

You have a trade in worth $10K.
Dealer sells you the car for $20K with the trade in.
It really cost $30K so the state adds the trade in value to the $20K sale price. Back to $30K.

If some genius interprets the wording to mean a $34K new car plus, say a $15K trade in, that would put the deal at $49K, which would not qualify for the sales tax exemption. If that’s how they want to play, sell the old car to the dealer on Monday and buy the new car on Tuesday.

 

[czbo]

Hi, new 2019 Honda Clarity PHEV Touring owner here. Bought at Syracuse NY for $30970 (MSRP $37520 - $4850 dealer discount - $1700 NY incentive), September 2019. This was one of the few Touring model remaining in my area within 200 miles radius. It has been sitting with the dealer for probably 7 months. Car was manufactured December 2018.

My guess is that since September 3, the Honda unadvertised dealer incentive $4000 is now available nation wide (maybe only ZEV states?) instead of only California and Oregon. So I began to see some dealers lowering their prices. Just a few weeks ago all the quotes I got were $36000. When you call, make sure you ask if the NY incentive of $1700 is included in the quoted price.

I am not sure if the deal will get better after this round of promotions (ends October 31). Earlier in the year, the dealer incentive was $6000, then it dropped to $5000, and now it's $4000. 2018 the highest sales volume was in October, November, and September (for NY).

 

[2002]

Hi, new 2019 Honda Clarity PHEV Touring owner here. Bought at Syracuse NY for $30970 (MSRP $37520 - $4850 dealer discount - $1700 NY incentive), September 2019. This was one of the few Touring model remaining in my area within 200 miles radius. It has been sitting with the dealer for probably 7 months. Car was manufactured December 2018.

My guess is that since September 3, the Honda unadvertised dealer incentive $4000 is now available nation wide (maybe only ZEV states?) instead of only California and Oregon. So I began to see some dealers lowering their prices. Just a few weeks ago all the quotes I got were $36000. When you call, make sure you ask if the NY incentive of $1700 is included in the quoted price.

I am not sure if the deal will get better after this round of promotions (ends October 31). Earlier in the year, the dealer incentive was $6000, then it dropped to $5000, and now it's $4000. 2018 the highest sales volume was in October, November, and September (for NY).

I just checked on the Costco Auto website which has been pretty reliable for incentive information, and you are right the latest $4,000 dealer incentive 9/4-10/31 includes all east coast ZEV states (except New Hampshire for some reason). As far as I know the May through September incentives were only for California and Oregon. I checked a couple of random non-ZEV states and the incentive is not available. It's a bit tedious checking each state because the way the Costco website works after entering zip code you have to select make and model and drill down to rebate information, then when you change zip code to look at another state you have to start all the way from the beginning again. But I think it is safe to assume that the current incentive is available only in ZEV states (except New Hampshire).

So that will probably clear out the remaining 2019's on the lots on the east coast. In case you don't know Honda only shipped 2019 Clarities to ZEV states, and apparently the east coast only got them at the very beginning of the year as virtually all VIN numbers seen on the east coast are below 1,000. After that initial batch Honda has only been shipping Clarity to California which is now up to VIN numbers above 5,000. Honda didn't acknowledge this until they were called out on it in early August, they admitted that currently Clarity is only shipping for inventory to California, but claimed that Clarity is still available for order in all fifty states.

However at least on this forum I have never heard of someone outside of California successfully ordering a Clarity, everyone says any dealer they contact about it is either unable or unwilling to order one. Except for one particular 2019 Crimson Pearl Base in Michigan that was ordered in March, built in May, customer cancelled after no sign of the car after ten weeks, then in early August someone on this forum noticed it listed on the same Michigan dealer's website, but when they called to inquire they were told the car had not yet arrived. It finally arrived at the Michigan dealer in September and is still sitting on their lot the last time I checked. VIN ending 3295 which is how we know it was built in May. Not sure where it spent the past few months, maybe in California.

It is quite possible that even east coast states will be in the same situation once the existing 2019's on the lots run out. It's been that way in Oregon most of the year with no cars available even though the incentive has run there all year. Can't even order one in Oregon at least from the reports we have heard. One person in Oregon recently tried, the dealer could not find a Clarity anywhere for trade and apparently ordering one would not have worked for the incentive due to unpredictable delivery time, so the Oregon dealer finally just referred them to a dealer in California who would sell it to them with the incentive price.

Maybe that won't be the case on the east coast, and people there will be able to order Clarity, hopefully with an incentive in place when it arrives, or maybe Honda will ship 2020 models to east coast ZEV states. So far we have no idea. Canada has been told they will get 2020 models there early next year, but that is a different situation there as people in Canada seem to be willing to pay MSRP for Clarity due to the tax incentives, unlike in the U.S. where even with huge tax incentives Clarity only seems to sell when Honda and/or the dealer discount it several thousand dollars.

 

[czbo]

I just checked on the Costco Auto website which has been pretty reliable for incentive information, and you are right the latest $4,000 dealer incentive 9/4-10/31 includes all east coast ZEV states (except New Hampshire for some reason). As far as I know the May through September incentives were only for California and Oregon. I checked a couple of random non-ZEV states and the incentive is not available. It's a bit tedious checking each state because the way the Costco website works after entering zip code you have to select make and model and drill down to rebate information, then when you change zip code to look at another state you have to start all the way from the beginning again. But I think it is safe to assume that the current incentive is available only in ZEV states (except New Hampshire).

So that will probably clear out the remaining 2019's on the lots on the east coast. In case you don't know Honda only shipped 2019 Clarities to ZEV states, and apparently the east coast only got them at the very beginning of the year as virtually all VIN numbers seen on the east coast are below 1,000. After that initial batch Honda has only been shipping Clarity to California which is now up to VIN numbers above 5,000. Honda didn't acknowledge this until they were called out on it in early August, they admitted that currently Clarity is only shipping for inventory to California, but claimed that Clarity is still available for order in all fifty states.

However at least on this forum I have never heard of someone outside of California successfully ordering a Clarity, everyone says any dealer they contact about it is either unable or unwilling to order one. Except for one particular 2019 Crimson Pearl Base in Michigan that was ordered in March, built in May, customer cancelled after no sign of the car after ten weeks, then in early August someone on this forum noticed it listed on the same Michigan dealer's website, but when they called to inquire they were told the car had not yet arrived. It finally arrived at the Michigan dealer in September and is still sitting on their lot the last time I checked. VIN ending 3295 which is how we know it was built in May. Not sure where it spent the past few months, maybe in California.

It is quite possible that even east coast states will be in the same situation once the existing 2019's on the lots run out. It's been that way in Oregon most of the year with no cars available even though the incentive has run there all year. Can't even order one in Oregon at least from the reports we have heard. One person in Oregon recently tried, the dealer could not find a Clarity anywhere for trade and apparently ordering one would not have worked for the incentive due to unpredictable delivery time, so the Oregon dealer finally just referred them to a dealer in California who would sell it to them with the incentive price.

Maybe that won't be the case on the east coast, and people there will be able to order Clarity, hopefully with an incentive in place when it arrives, or maybe Honda will ship 2020 models to east coast ZEV states. So far we have no idea. Canada has been told they will get 2020 models there early next year, but that is a different situation there as people in Canada seem to be willing to pay MSRP for Clarity due to the tax incentives, unlike in the U.S. where even with huge tax incentives Clarity only seems to sell when Honda and/or the dealer discount it several thousand dollars.

My vehicle has VIN ending 507, was built in December 2018. I called around to ask if I could order a new one. Most said they would try to locate a vehicle from another dealer first. Only one dealer said there is a possibility of ordering from Honda, but it may take 3 months to arrive and then the incentives might be different at that time. I agree with you that with the current promotion, the existing inventory should start moving again. Looking at the NY rebate statistics the sale numbers were dismal in May, June, and July (single digits). These cars are more rare than Tesla and far fewer people know of its existence.

 

[css28]

My vehicle has VIN ending 507, was built in December 2018. I called around to ask if I could order a new one. Most said they would try to locate a vehicle from another dealer first. Only one dealer said there is a possibility of ordering from Honda, but it may take 3 months to arrive and then the incentives might be different at that time. I agree with you that with the current promotion, the existing inventory should start moving again. Looking at the NY rebate statistics the sale numbers were dismal in May, June, and July (single digits). These cars are more rare than Tesla and far fewer people know of its existence.

Living in Michigan I can be sure that there will be no Honda incentives and no state rebates to help me with a Clarity purchase. I agree that the long term dealer service support could be iffy for this car.

While Teslas are more plentiful here than Clarities, the level of Tesla support is severely hobbled by the pro-franchise laws in Ohio and Michigan. We have a Tesla "gallery" in a nearby mall and they apparently offer "demonstration drives" but cannot sell me a car.
Since the nearest delivery center is over 250 miles away, I could have one delivered to my home, if I wanted.
For service, they have "mobile rangers" but for anything requiring a service center I'd have to drive to one just across the border in Ohio (75 miles away). Before that service center was opened, Tesla reportedly would flatbed your car to another service center but I doubt that happens any more.