Can InsideEVs find out why Electrify America stations in Washington state aren't yet operational?

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interestedinEV said:
Thanks @Pushmi-Pullyu. I hope you will agree, given that we have butted heads on an occasion or two, that I try to be objective.
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Absolutely! We may disagree, but I respect your opinions and hopefully you return the favor. It is possible for people of good will to "disagree without being disagreeable".

The same can't be said for those whose only purpose here is to attack the public image of Tesla Inc. and its cars.

interestedinEV said:
My point here is simple, even if Electrify American can get away with doing what they want, they are required to do what is in the communities best interest, not their own interest. This is atonement for dieselgate.
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That's the ideal, certainly. But with the current U.S. presidential administration being so virulently anti-"green", and trying so hard to completely dismantle the EPA's regulatory system, and otherwise to "make 'Murica safe for polluters again", actual enforcement of the requirement for Electrify America to benefit all EV drivers is very unlikely to be pursued diligently... if at all.

I hope nobody thinks this is just empty political rhetoric. Four-Five (the current U.S. President) has appointed people to head the EPA whose intention is to dismantle and destroy as much of the agency as possible. Four-Five's first appointee (before he was forced to resign due to numerous scandals) was Scott Pruitt. Previously, as Oklahoma Attorney General, Pruitt sued the EPA 14 times to block clean air and water safeguards.

That's a fact. And this was the first person Four-Five chose to head the EPA. The replacement is an outspoken climate change denier* and former coal lobbyist.

*He's the guy who famously showed a snowball on the Senate floor to "prove" global warming isn't real.
 
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marshall said:
That's a good thing, but it's also a pain in the fanny if you have to drive out of your way to get to one
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Yup. It's going to be awhile before we see EV fast-charge (and ultimately ultra-fast-charge) stations every 5-10 miles or so along most major highways, as is currently the case for gas stations. In fact, given that most EV charging will always be done at home, I doubt we will ever see as many EV ultra-fast charge stations as there are now gas stations.
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bwilson4web said:
You've raised an interesting question.

Tesla Superchargers

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Spread apart, the SuperChargers are located where they can support long distance, Tesla travel.

Electrify America Chargers

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Concentrated in urban areas, long distance support is weaker than the Tesla Superchargers.

CCS Chargers

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The interesting problem is the concentration of other CCS charger networks. The others provide the long distance charging needed for cross country travel. However, they are also already concentrated in the area Electrify America is building. So the challenge becomes how to compete and that may lead to a 'price war' in the urban area while outside, the other CCS networks can cover their urban costs.

Bob Wilson
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What you are looking at is Electrify America Cycle 1 of 4, Cycle 2 is already being permitted, and a few locations I have seen paperwork on are on the Kitsap Peninsula, Ocean Shores, Wenatchee, Ritzville, and Moses Lake, but I have been told these are just the first round of cycle 2, intended to be built in later 2019.

BTW, your map is showing Tesla supercharger locations that are not in WA state, Victoria, and Astoria OR, Can you Add Electrify Canada locations to be fair?

The system EA is building is intended to support all users, including apartment people who do not have access to charging at home or work, these urban locations are quite handy for those people.

Also realtors or other folks who frequently have high mile days all in the urban areas need these chargers I know several Tesla driving relators, all talk about having to cut days short because they ran out of power and there was not convenient supercharger.

If you are on the I-5 corridor (by far the most heavily traveled out of Seattle North or South) there is no supercharger between lynnwood, and Centrallia, that is a huge area... As part of Cycle 1 EA has Lynwood, Northgate, Southcenter, Federal Way, Tacoma, Lacey in that same range. Tesla is better on the 101 where EA has not built in cycle 1, but it's coming in Cycle 2, and already submitted for utility hookup and permit.
 
My experience with the two tiered, SuperCharger rates and our CCS equipped BMW i3-REx has shown:
  • 101 kW peak Model 3 charge rate is the key to affordable, cross country driving
    • Two tiered rate makes a fair trade allowing variable charging without exploitation
  • 40-50 kW peak BMW i3-REx rate at Electrify America (EA) or EVgo is more expensive than gasoline
    • Single rate rapes the user during the charge taper
Bob Wilson
 
David Green said:
BTW, your map is showing Tesla supercharger locations that are not in WA state, Victoria, and Astoria OR, Can you Add Electrify Canada locations to be fair?
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The method I used:
  1. Select in PlugShare: CCS Electrify America; CCS all, and; SuperCharger
  2. Then make a screen shot that is cropped to match the same area: Canadian border; Idaho border, Oregon border, and just west of the Olympic area.
PlugShare has independent, EV owner confirmation of access and charging. I've been disappointed with proprietary maps that fail to identify inaccessible or user blocked chargers (aka., ChargePoint.) For example, Coffeyville KS where my Mom lives:
coffeyville_010.jpg

I added two charging locations:
  • Left most is Coffeyville Regional Hospital where there is a 120VAC wall outlet perfect for topping off a well charged car while dealing with medical issues.
  • Center right is a NEMA 14-50 equipped RV park which in five hours can fully charge my Model 3.
  • Far right is a 30A service park but I didn't have a connector that would work.
If you had a plug-in hybrid or EV, you could add charging sites. I'm not sure how to link one to a charging network but reports to the Plugshare owners are fixed within one business day.

Bob Wilson
 
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marshall said:
Can you find out why the Electrify America charging stations in Washington state have been complete for 1 to 3 months (or more) now and still haven't been made operational?
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I see 2 more EA stations popped up on the WA map, Ritzville, and Bothell. 25 EA locations in WA state now, compared with 16 Tesla Supercharger Locations. Wow, I wonder what this landscape will look like as we get well into Cycle 2.
 
David Green said:
I see 2 more EA stations popped up on the WA map, Ritzville, and Bothell. 25 EA locations in WA state now, compared with 16 Tesla Supercharger Locations. Wow, I wonder what this landscape will look like as we get well into Cycle 2.
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Well if Tesla ever comes out with a CCS adapter or a CHAdeMO adapter for the model 3, then the Tesla drivers get the best of both worlds.

Sadly, Forth the contractor for the WSDOT I-5 project has been slow to get the state paid for installs up and running.
 
bwilson4web said:
  • CCS is available in EU and has demonstrated 130 kW charge rate
  • CHAdeMO is limited to 50 kW or less
Bob Wilson
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As of today CCS would be the best and I would like to see them move to it with at least an adapter. Ideally, Tesla moves to the clunky looking CCS charging port and reduces or stops building out new superchargers.

However, Tesla has done a pretty good job of covering the most of the highly traveled roads with their own network. A CHAdeMO adapter is perfectly acceptable for filling in around the medium and large cities if that's cheaper for Tesla in the short run.
 
Based on demonstrated charge rates, CCS would be useful for ~15 min. CHAdeMO not so much:
  • $0.26/min vs $0.30/min - SuperCharger above 60 kW vs CCS all rates
    • Electrify America charges $1.00, ~3.33 min. at 0 kW charge, just to connect
  • $0.13/min vs $0.30/min - SuperCharger under 60 kW vs CCS all rates
Bob Wilson
 
bwilson4web said:
Based on demonstrated charge rates, CCS would be useful for ~15 min. CHAdeMO not so much:
  • $0.26/min vs $0.30/min - SuperCharger above 60 kW vs CCS all rates
    • Electrify America charges $1.00, ~3.33 min. at 0 kW charge, just to connect
  • $0.13/min vs $0.30/min - SuperCharger under 60 kW vs CCS all rates
Bob Wilson
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The trouble is when you have to drive 25 miles back and forth in heavy traffic to get to a supercharger. On top of that, you may have to wait to access it. Frankly, the cheaper rate is less of an issue then convenience when you are traveling, especially if you can afford to drive a Tesla.

EVgo charges $0.29/min here, with no session fee.
 
bwilson4web said:
Uh, I don't. My Model 3 is on an L2 EVSE even as I type this note.
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In your road trip, you seemed to go out of your way to Jackson. So would you pay 29 cents a minute for the convenience? I think a lot folks would.

05/22 00:38 Pearl, MS Supercharger ($4.80 75 mi)

Concerned that the car might lose too much power over night to reach the next SuperCharger, the dogs and I drove to Jackson MS and added 150 mile charge. We ran into a police checkpoint checking licenses, insurance, (and breath.) After admiring my wife's doggies, the trooper waved me through without asking for proof of insurance or sleeping disorder treatment.
 
marshall said:
In your road trip, you seemed to go out of your way to Jackson. . . .
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When we got to Vicksburg, I configured the car in "Dog Mode" in an RV park but due to plug limitations, could only plug into a NEMA 5-15, 12A @120VAC. This exceeded the A/C load keeping our dogs comfortable. When the reserve range reached ~120 miles, I decided to head to the nearest SuperCharger in Jackson, 47 miles away.

At Jackson, I put the car on the SuperCharger and brought the battery range up to about 200 miles. When we got back and configured the car for "Dog Mode," we had a 140 mile reserve which was enough for the rest of the night.

In the morning, we were at ~110 miles and easily reached Jackson. A quick charge and we were off to the next SuperCharger at Meridian:
  • $0.26/min above 60 kW
  • $0.13/min below 60 kW
Bob Wilson
 
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