Arrive to the bottom of the hill with no ev range and stop. Switch to HV charge and accelerate up the hill at full throttle.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Inside EVs mobile app
Want to know your ICE RPM's?
Sent from my SM-G965U using Inside EVs mobile app
The 2000 RPM number is almost for sure selected to reduce pumping loss.
At low RPM, a four cycle engine uses a meaningful amount of energy sucking the air past the throttle plate. This is what is called pumping loss. Diesels don't have a throttle plate and this is why they tend to run at lower RPMs (and this is why diesel engines tend to be more efficient. They produce massive torque at very low RPMs and that is a big part of how they do it). Normal gas engines though do waste some of the energy on the down-stroke working against the restriction of the partially open throttle.
In most gasoline engines, the throttle is usually open enough by about 2000 RPM that the pumping loss is minimal.
And this is (my guess anyway) probably why the ICE "Likes" to be run at about 2000 RPM.
I was a hypermiler in my Gen 1 Honda Insight and my Gen 3 Prius, and you learn about things like that.
At low RPM, a four cycle engine uses a meaningful amount of energy sucking the air past the throttle plate. This is what is called pumping loss. Diesels don't have a throttle plate and this is why they tend to run at lower RPMs (and this is why diesel engines tend to be more efficient. They produce massive torque at very low RPMs and that is a big part of how they do it). Normal gas engines though do waste some of the energy on the down-stroke working against the restriction of the partially open throttle.
In most gasoline engines, the throttle is usually open enough by about 2000 RPM that the pumping loss is minimal.
And this is (my guess anyway) probably why the ICE "Likes" to be run at about 2000 RPM.
I was a hypermiler in my Gen 1 Honda Insight and my Gen 3 Prius, and you learn about things like that.
I'm looking to get * as much information as possible*, for under $30. The BAFX seems to be highly used and reviewed on amazon. Has anyone compared the various OBDII plug-ins with the Clarity Hybrid?
Dan Albrich
Well-Known Member
Had the angry bees today-- electric range 0, gas only. In HV mode but that doesn't seem to matter once electric range hits zero. My car's electric range goes down as I drive even in HV mode; which I realize isn't everyone's experience.
My wife had an observation- the sound is precisely what one hears with a manual transmission -- winding out a low gear. In other words, may of us learned to drive on manuals, and shift by ear. You can hear when its time to shift, and you try not to 'wind out' a low gear for fear of damaging engine. Anyway, that's the reason I hate the angry bees sound. Others on the forum have told me not to worry- not hurting the car. It's akin to asking me to ignore a baby screaming in the next room, but one simply really cannot.
So my strategy with the high-rpm sound is to run the stereo loud, and do whatever I can to retain a non-zero electric range. But anyway, I thought her comment regarding manual transmission winding out was dead on. Maybe shoudn't be 'angry bees' maybe should be 'stuck in 1st gear' or something.
-Dan
My wife had an observation- the sound is precisely what one hears with a manual transmission -- winding out a low gear. In other words, may of us learned to drive on manuals, and shift by ear. You can hear when its time to shift, and you try not to 'wind out' a low gear for fear of damaging engine. Anyway, that's the reason I hate the angry bees sound. Others on the forum have told me not to worry- not hurting the car. It's akin to asking me to ignore a baby screaming in the next room, but one simply really cannot.
So my strategy with the high-rpm sound is to run the stereo loud, and do whatever I can to retain a non-zero electric range. But anyway, I thought her comment regarding manual transmission winding out was dead on. Maybe shoudn't be 'angry bees' maybe should be 'stuck in 1st gear' or something.
-Dan
@AnthonyW and ScanGauge worked together to suss out some of the unique codes issued by the Clarity. Having that extra data might tip things in favor of the ScanGauge II. Hopefully, they will continue to work together to find even more Clarity-specific codes.
Why would you want to do this? It is like putting an automatic in low or manual in low gear and flooring it. It is something that you are not supposed to do, so I wouldn't consider it a normal operating mode of the car.
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
OK,
We came home a couple days ago with zero range left on EV. Instead of charging, I decided to go out for a drive today with the sole intention of summoning the bees, and recording what the engine RPM's were doing. I drove around for about 45 minutes, some highway speeds, and some stop and go with lights. I was up and down hills accelerating aggressively. I tried as @Dustin suggested and stopped at the bottom of a hill, engaged HV-Charge, then floored it up the hill...
Bottom line, I never experienced the Angry Bees (at least, not that I recognized).
Here is the trip log with speed, and engine RPM's. The highest RPM's experienced throughout this exercise was 3177:
Another slightly smaller peak at ~200 seconds of 3052. As before, the ICE seemed happy to run at an average of maybe 2000 when it was on. The 'high' RPM peaks were very brief - no sustained high RPM's.
I am not going to waste more time trying to invoke a condition that I may never experience with my normal driving patterns. I assume at some point I will experience the bees (maybe when I least expect them)... I was just trying to help answer some unanswered questions so we could all have a better understand our cars.
If someone can identify a foolproof way to insure getting the Bees, I would be happy to try it and gather some data in the process. At this point, it just seems like I am wasting my time trying to cause this behavior.
It is easy to get the impression that this racing behavior is very common from reading the forum. It is possible that is actually pretty rare, but those who have experienced it may tend to be more vocal and skew the perception in a forum like this. We don't have a lot of experience (~1400 miles), and have not seen this yet, so at least for our driving scenarios it must be rare
We came home a couple days ago with zero range left on EV. Instead of charging, I decided to go out for a drive today with the sole intention of summoning the bees, and recording what the engine RPM's were doing. I drove around for about 45 minutes, some highway speeds, and some stop and go with lights. I was up and down hills accelerating aggressively. I tried as @Dustin suggested and stopped at the bottom of a hill, engaged HV-Charge, then floored it up the hill...
Bottom line, I never experienced the Angry Bees (at least, not that I recognized).
Here is the trip log with speed, and engine RPM's. The highest RPM's experienced throughout this exercise was 3177:
Another slightly smaller peak at ~200 seconds of 3052. As before, the ICE seemed happy to run at an average of maybe 2000 when it was on. The 'high' RPM peaks were very brief - no sustained high RPM's.
I am not going to waste more time trying to invoke a condition that I may never experience with my normal driving patterns. I assume at some point I will experience the bees (maybe when I least expect them)... I was just trying to help answer some unanswered questions so we could all have a better understand our cars.
If someone can identify a foolproof way to insure getting the Bees, I would be happy to try it and gather some data in the process. At this point, it just seems like I am wasting my time trying to cause this behavior.
It is easy to get the impression that this racing behavior is very common from reading the forum. It is possible that is actually pretty rare, but those who have experienced it may tend to be more vocal and skew the perception in a forum like this. We don't have a lot of experience (~1400 miles), and have not seen this yet, so at least for our driving scenarios it must be rare
Thank you for the data. It is very informative. I think with this workload this engine should last 300k miles. I am glad Honda went with a port-injected engine design, so no carbon buildup issue anticipated.
JFon101231
Active Member
Or perhaps some folks are more 'sensitive' to the sound? I've driven everything from my Fit EV to 4 and 6 cylinder cars and trucks with V8 gas motors as well as diesels plus skidsteers and tractors.
To me, from what I've heard so far when having 0 EV range, the car sounds only mildly louder/higher RPMs than most other econobox 4 cylinders (think Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla) on the highway under a load. Maybe I haven't experienced the bees yet, or maybe I have and they just aren't that big a deal in my eyes (ears). My wife doesn't particularly like it and wouldn't buy the car for her DD, but she's had a V8 or quiet V6 in everything she's ever driven...
To me, from what I've heard so far when having 0 EV range, the car sounds only mildly louder/higher RPMs than most other econobox 4 cylinders (think Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla) on the highway under a load. Maybe I haven't experienced the bees yet, or maybe I have and they just aren't that big a deal in my eyes (ears). My wife doesn't particularly like it and wouldn't buy the car for her DD, but she's had a V8 or quiet V6 in everything she's ever driven...
Thanks very much MrFixit for providing your graphs. Very interesting information. I also hope that someone can come up with an app that can provide us with more information on the Clarity via an OBDII. I have a Nissan Leaf, and somebody developed the LeafSpy app that shows a great deal of information about the car, mostly centering on battery usage and health.
The first time I drove the grapevine I was a little nervous. This was with The Clarity packed with 4 people and a full trunk (San Diego to Fresno for Thanksgiving.) The Clarity handled it with ease and I felt like I was generating so many miles on the downhill descent!
Ray B
Active Member
Mine, which is a cheap bluetooth one, provides, all the normal essentials through the Torque app (rpm, speed, 12V battery voltage, OBD voltage, and a bunch of others), plus it can also log the sensors from your phone (date, time, GPS data, accelerometer data) and also some approximations of torque and power based on calculations from the cars' data and data that you input (car's weight for instance). It also reads the State of Charge for the EV battery. It is pretty cheap for the combo of an OBD 2 bluetooth scanner and the Torque pro app.
Thevenin
Member
I use a BAFX OBD2 bluetooth dongle and the Torque Pro app with the extra PIDs that come from the Torque Scan extension. I can log the following:
- RPM
- Speed (through odometer and GPS)
- Engine temperature (haven't tried this, but should work)
- Time
- Trip distance
- Acceleration, location, altitude, barometer, calculated engine load, percent highway/city/idle, all from phone
- 12V battery voltage
- Hybrid battery SoC (this actually works great)
- Fuel level
- Instantaneous, trip, and lifetime MPG
I record miles driven in HV and EV mode, so if I plan on switching back and forth a lot, I use the Torque Pro app to record my trip data to a CSV so I can dissect these distances later.
These plots are excellent, Thanks MrFixit. I especially like the graph in posting #28. Look closely at the MPH and RPM at times 1600-1700 seconds and at 1900-2050 (ignore the brief ICE shutoff). You can see an extremely close proportional tracking of MPH and RPM. I contend that in these intervals you have direct drive of the ICE to the wheels. If you multiplied mph by some number around 36-37 you should see the two plots overlay nicely. That would be the elusive "gear icon" occurring.
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Another forum member @AnthonyW has spent considerable time using a ScanGauge II and working with the developer to get additional parametrics. He has specifically stated that he has the main battery amperage working. See this thread (specifically post #30): https://insideevsforum.com/communit...pids-capacity-and-specific-energy.2633/page-2
Unfortunately, I do not know how to relate the ScanGuage II nomenclature to something more common like the Torque Pro PID definitions. This thread also interesting where @AnthonyW is essentially able to 'calibrate' the main dashboard display identifying the # of amps for each tic mark on the display: https://insideevsforum.com/communit...pids-capacity-and-specific-energy.2633/page-3
MNSteve
Well-Known Member
The BAFX OBD2 entry on Amazon specifically states that it will not work with Apple IOS. This doesn't seem reasonable, as I know there is a Torque version for IOS, and it would seem that Bluetooth would be the same. I'm not sure that I really want to get into the time sink of fiddling with OBD2 but can one of you who does please let me know if you're doing it using an iPhone?