Lingering misconceptions about EVs

[Bruce M.]

Those of us who are relatively immersed in the EV world can easily forget how little many ICE drivers know about them. I got reminded of this today when I gave a friend and her boyfriend a ride to the airport. It seemed like both had never been in an EV before.

She lives on a busy street, so turning left out of her driveway required watching for a small break in traffic and stomping on the accelerator. When I did, complete with squealing tires, she commented, "It's so fast -- and for an electric!" She had assumed that EVs were inherently slow.

Now my little Hyundai Kona Electric is decidedly not a Model S Plaid or a new Dodge Charger, but it's way quicker off the line than the average ICE compact crossover. When I explained why EVs naturally tend to be quick to accelerate from a stop, it made complete sense to them, but the idea that, for example, you don't have to wait for an engine to rev up had simply never occurred to them. I suspect that a lot of remaining resistance to EVs may be related to people just not understanding them.

 

[R P]

Yup, that's one of the things I like about driving an EV. They are so quick and nimble compared to an ICE car, which makes them a real pleasure to drive. If all else was equal to an ICE car (which of course they are not), I would still always pick an EV to drive. I really can't imagine going back to an ICE car. And yes, many of my friends just don't understand that, mainly because they have never owned one, or even driven one.

 

[Bruce M.]

It seems to me that no one has done a very good job of educating people about what EVs are actually like. I don't think I've ever seen an EV ad that touts the inherent advantages of these cars -- lack of moving parts, low maintenance cost, instant acceleration, etc. These things all seem to me like selling points, and I don't really see anyone pitching them on any sort of meaningful scale.

 

[R P]

It seems to me that no one has done a very good job of educating people about what EVs are actually like. I don't think I've ever seen an EV ad that touts the inherent advantages of these cars -- lack of moving parts, low maintenance cost, instant acceleration, etc. These things all seem to me like selling points, and I don't really see anyone pitching them on any sort of meaningful scale.

Who or where to do you expect to see this education happening? I know when I talk to people about EVs I certainly point out the benefits and why they are better.

But on the media, just the opposite happens, and where all these negative myths get reiterated. I doubt that dealers do much educating, about the good that is.

 

[Bruce M.]

Who or where to do you expect to see this education happening? I know when I talk to people about EVs I certainly point out the benefits and why they are better.

But on the media, just the opposite happens, and where all these negative myths get reiterated. I doubt that dealers do much educating, about the good that is.

Uh, my post pointed out an obvious example: Ads for EVs, which rarely talk about why one might prefer them over ICE cars. But since you brought up the media, they could certainly do some. It's not like they never cover new products and trends in the marketplace. It's a perfectly valid subject for a feature broadcast or print story.

 

[R P]

Uh, my post pointed out an obvious example: Ads for EVs, which rarely talk about why one might prefer them over ICE cars. But since you brought up the media, they could certainly do some. It's not like they never cover new products and trends in the marketplace. It's a perfectly valid subject for a feature broadcast or print story.

Yeah, ads appeal to the emotion of owning a car. They are not about selling the logic of owning one.

And you know, lately I don't go out of my way anymore of selling the benefits of an EV. I will answer questions and go into some detail if people are really interested. But I guess I have sort of given up. Did it more with my first EV. Now on my 3rd, it is just another car to me now.

 

[bwilson4web]

I just buy a nicer meal out or travel as I want. I am reminded of the old saying about "teaching a pig to sing." Only the young are curious enough and decide what is best for them.

Bob Wilson

 

[Bruce M.]

Yeah, ads appeal to the emotion of owning a car. They are not about selling the logic of owning one.

And you know, lately I don't go out of my way anymore of selling the benefits of an EV. I will answer questions and go into some detail if people are really interested. But I guess I have sort of given up. Did it more with my first EV. Now on my 3rd, it is just another car to me now.

I don't know where you are, but I see ads touting the practical benefits of a particular model all the time. An emotional appeal is often the hook, but I certainly see ads touting fuel economy, safety features, room/comfort, etc.

 

[R P]

I don't know where you are, but I see ads touting the practical benefits of a particular model all the time. An emotional appeal is often the hook, but I certainly see ads touting fuel economy, safety features, room/comfort, etc.

As an example, I do see Subaru ads in off-road environments appealing to the outdoor adventure crowd. And I see shiny BMWs and Audis on downtown city streets with occupants dressed for going out to dinner. To me those are emotional appeals. Yeah, if a car stands out in a particular way, like fuel economy, or a large family hauler, those might be highlighted. But can't recall seeing an EV advertised as saving money with charging at home, or fun driving with instant acceleration when you stomp the go pedal. If they are esp good at fast charging or long range, that might be mentioned. But I don't ever see them comparing to an ICE car and why they are better. Probably because most manufacturers are also selling ICE cars.

 

[Raylo]

To me the only major shortfall of EVs other than the purchase cost is lack of charging infrastructure. When I go on a road trip, I look for places to charge an EV and just don't see near enough... and in most places a total absence. When that changes, I will consider an EV. I know, chicken or the egg... but I just don't have time in my life for that extra complication of having to plan and search for refueling locations, especially after the relatively short highway ranges as compared to ICE. Nor do I have time to research and install multiple apps for charging "networks". These things add yet another time-consuming hurdle to the refueling process on road trips. And last time I looked, which admittedly is a while ago, you'd end up paying as much $ per mile as you would in a less efficient ICE vehicle. That may be a misconception, because like I said, I haven't done that math recently... although, if anything, gas has gotten a lot cheaper since the last time I did do the math.

 

[bwilson4web]

lack of charging infrastructure

Fast DC chargers, Tesla and CCS-1, centered about Fredrick Maryland:


Here are the slower, L2 chargers, often found at shopping centers, motels, and restaurants. Many are free:


As for the cost, used EVs and a few worthy PHEVs, are quite affordable:

$13,965.00 2017 BMW i3 94Ah w/Range Extender (my recommendation)
~$25,000 Teslas from my 2019 to 2022​

Electric cars are different and a BMW i3 with Range Extender engine gives you a chance to learn the real world differences ... the learning curve. The motorcycle sized engine gives you highway access similar to cross country on any large motorcycle. If it doesn't work, sell it and get most of your money back.

As for cost to operate, I found this for Frederick MD:

• $0.13/kWh (similar to Huntsville AL where I live)
• $3.10/gal gas (uses mid-grade and above)

So last year, I bought a backup, PHEV, 2017 BMW i3-REx for $15,000 and drove 800 miles back from Florida. So having an EV and PHEV:

• BMW i3-REx for around town and out to about 50 miles but can go further using range extender.
• Tesla for out of town trips and occasional errands around town.

EVs are not for everyone but a BMW i3-REx gives enough access to EV driving with the motorcycle engine backup to let you find out ... "Could I live with one?"

Bob Wilson

 

[Bruce M.]

Just for the hell of it, I looked up your hometown of Frederick, MD on Plugshare and both fast chargers and L2 seem to be quite plentiful throughout the region (I see Bob beat me to the punch with images), though I of course don't know where you drive. Most charging networks let you use either an app or their card. I just keep the cards in my wallet with my credit cards -- no biggie.

Cost may be an issue if you use commercial fast charging a lot. Charging at home remains way cheaper than gas.

 

[Raylo]

Oh, I have zero concerns locally. I'd charge at home pretty much 100% of the time since that's seems to be the only way to get decent rates since the commercial chargers are ripoffs. If that's all I drove, I'd have an EV now.

And those maps above are like the cell phone carriers' maps. They aren't granular enough and don't come close to telling the full story. And like I said earlier, merely having to study up and plan for refueling stops on a road trip is a deal breaker for me.

Just for the hell of it, I looked up your hometown of Frederick, MD on Plugshare and both fast chargers and L2 seem to be quite plentiful throughout the region (I see Bob beat me to the punch with images), though I of course don't know where you drive. Most charging networks let you use either an app or their card. I just keep the cards in my wallet with my credit cards -- no biggie.

Cost may be an issue if you use commercial fast charging a lot. Charging at home remains way cheaper than gas.

 

[bwilson4web]

Cost may be an issue if you use commercial fast charging a lot. Charging at home remains way cheaper than gas.

Good point, cross country:

• $0.36/kWh - Tesla supercharger for Teslas
• $0.42/kWh - non-Tesla
• $0.48/kWh - highest I've experienced

Bob Wilson

 

[Raylo]

Exactly. Ripoffs. Until that gets rectified, forget about it.

Good point, cross country:

• $0.36/kWh - Tesla supercharger for Teslas
• $0.42/kWh - non-Tesla
• $0.48/kWh - highest I've experienced

Bob Wilson

 

[bwilson4web]

And those maps above are like the cell phone carriers' maps. They aren't granular enough and don't come close to telling the full story.

Those were screen shots from PlugShare, a free, web based application. I choose the 10 mi range to give some idea of what longer distance routes exist. But PlugShare lets you scale from very close scale out to continents.

It also has a trip planning option to plan pretty much anywhere. Best of all, each charger takes user comments and has a quality rating score as well as obscure tips (i.e., behind the dumpster.) With rare exceptions, I prefer 600-700 mi segments but have done several, 1,200 mi, 24 hour segments.

On longer trips, I look for free motel chargers about 600-700 miles away. I get a free breakfast in the morning and full charge overnight. Of course, I use similar motels at my destination. Let me share my most recent example:

• 1,200 miles Huntsville to Port Isabel TX, ~25 hours
  • -200 miles from home charging
  • -200 miles free charging at destination
  • $72 = (800 mi / 4 mi/kWh) * $0.36/kWh
• Southwind Motel six walking blocks from free, overnight charging
• Three nights with free charging around Port Isabel
• 700 miles Port Isabel to New Orleans for business meeting
• 700 miles New Orleans to Huntsville AL

My 2019 Model 3 has Full Self Driving which makes long distance segments easier and safer than manual driving.

Bob Wilson

 

[R P]

Exactly. Ripoffs. Until that gets rectified, forget about it.

You seem to be hell bent on not buying an EV, with your very lame excuses. I have been driving BEVs since 2019 and am on my 3rd one now. Looking ahead with Plugshare is pretty convenient and easy for planning a trip with an EV. Furthermore most EVs have onboard charging station location info, so you can see and plan while you are driving for where you want to charge. Driving an EV is different, but easy enough to learn and adapt. And remember, too, that 90+% EV driving is with charging at home.

 

[insightman]

You seem to be hell bent on not buying an EV, with your very lame excuses. I have been driving BEVs since 2019 and am on my 3rd one now. Looking ahead with Plugshare is pretty convenient and easy for planning a trip with an EV. Furthermore most EVs have onboard charging station location info, so you can see and plan while you are driving for where you want to charge. Driving an EV is different, but easy enough to learn and adapt. And remember, too, that 90+% EV driving is with charging at home.

It's difficult to describe the joy of never again going to a gas station.

 

[Raylo]

I agree that would be great, at least in my home area. But that would be balanced by total frustration at not being able to literally pull off any interstate interchange anywhere and be fueling within 2 minutes at the first station I pass. And then paying a fair price for the fuel and completing that fueling less than 5 minutes later. Our tolerances for the sort of inconvenience EVs currently introduce in that scenario may differ. Hopefully that improves with time. But I fear that the recent election will seriously slow progress in this regard.

It's difficult to describe the joy of never again going to a gas station.

 

[R P]

I agree that would be great, at least in my home area. But that would be balanced by total frustration at not being able to literally pull off any interstate interchange anywhere and be fueling within 2 minutes at the first station I pass. And then paying a fair price for the fuel and completing that fueling less than 5 minutes later. Our tolerances for the sort of inconvenience EVs currently introduce in that scenario may differ. Hopefully that improves with time. But I fear that the recent election will seriously slow progress in this regard.

Again, most of your charging will be at home. And believe me, plugging in at home is a lot more convenient than pulling up to gas station to fill up and pay there.