Budget Battery Capacity Readout

[Landshark]

My mother told me not to communicate with toxic, so it’s unlikely that we will have a dialogue. I doubt that you can teach me anything

It’s unfortunate that you consider knowledge and facts to be toxic.

You’ve asked a few questions and demonstrated that you do not have a rudimentary understanding of batteries, yet when someone attempts to explain a few of those basics, you dismiss it as a toxic exchange.

I’ve asked you to explain your ideas and you have been unable to do so. “Software” doesn’t cut it. Perhaps someone else will be able to explain these things to you in a way that you’ll be able to understand and accept. I can only carry on for so long with someone who claims to be knowledgeable, yet is unwilling to accept a few basic facts.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Landshark]

You will never come to an end of an exchange with this guy. He sold his Clarity a short time ago and bid farewell to this forum, but here he is again.
Best advice is to do what he has done to probably 85% of members of this forum and use the IGNORE feature for his posts.

If you’re still one of my followers, maybe you could answer “Where is the other 5kWh’s”? And maybe you could let us know if you agree that the extra capacity “is for replacement of failed elements”.

 

[rodeknyt]

If you’re still one of my followers, maybe you could answer “Where is the other 5kWh’s”? And maybe you could let us know if you agree that the extra capacity “is for replacement of failed elements”.

Unlike you, I don't IGNORE people who are rude and condescending. I find the entertainment value worth the disgust.

 

[Landshark]

I don't IGNORE people

Well, you are ignoring my questions. You’re just responding in a rude fashion.

Where do you stand on the topics I asked about? I’m trying to dispel myths and fiction so that the forum members can be informed rather than misinformed. Some folks prefer to be misinformed as long as the misinformation supports their beliefs. That is a choice everyone should be free to make. I just try to let them know they are misinformed, so they can make an informed decision.

 

[rodeknyt]

Well, you are ignoring my questions. You’re just responding in a rude fashion.

Where do you stand on the topics I asked about? I’m trying to dispel myths and fiction so that the forum members can be informed rather than misinformed. Some folks prefer to be misinformed as long as the misinformation supports their beliefs. That is a choice everyone should be free to make. I just try to let them know they are misinformed, so they can make an informed decision.

Yep.

 

[Landshark]

Yep.

Probably why you initially made the Ignore list, and why you’re back on it.

Your posts are completely useless.

 

[rodeknyt]

Probably why you initially made the Ignore list, and why you’re back on it.

Your posts are completely useless.

Thanks.

 

[Dan Albrich]

2018 Clarity here. I reported when newish maybe in 2019 about 53.2 ah. I received my car in September 2018 (manufactured in June 2018), but didn't have the battery printout until early 2019. Anyway, as of today, reading is 45.08ah. This would appear that I've lost ah at a rate of 1.35ah/year. If that continues for the next 4 years, in 2028, I'll have 39.68ah in year 10. I'll likely do better than that as the ah change isn't linear, and unlikely to trigger a new battery at 36.6ah under warranty.

Car is still performing well. My all electric range (I live on a hill) this time of year is about 30-37 estimated EV miles. My commute is about 25 total miles so my commute basically has stayed all electric for me save winter when my low ev range is about 24ev miles, then I do burn a little gas.

After state and federal rebates, I got the car for about 25K net. (I paid 35k, minus 7500 federal non-refundable rebate, and 2500 state rebate).

When I bought the car, the napkin numbers I worked out at the time told me I'd want the car to last at least 10 years to have it make sense for me. I think I'll make it at least 10 years. (i.e. the new car's ride saves me at least $1000/yr in gas vs. my old Subaru. So I figured a net cost of 25K would make the car feel like it cost about 15K over the 10 years, and doesn't drive/feel like a cheap economy car). And yes, the Subaru may be an especially bad comparator given its relatively low gas mileage, but that's what I had before. I mean there are other reasonable cars with better than say 19mpg. One point missed by the "PHEV" haters (ones who want all EV or nothing) is even when this car burns gas, I average 40mpg. So it isn't just PHEV, its a good hybrid.

Edit: One last thing, found my Aug post #290 in this thread, 2021. At that point I had a 49 ah reading. Doing the math 3 years in at that point, my ah losage was exactly 1.35ah. My point being maybe the loss is linear in my case. I appear to lose 1.35ah per year.

 

[bpratt]

I purchased my 2018 in December 2017 (manufactured in November 2017). I didn't start measuring the battery until March 2021 with a reading of 51.94. I only drive about 4000 to 4500 miles per year probably at least 95% in town. Right now I'm running in Hybrid mode to burn some of the 3 gallons of gas I put in it July 2023. The car is kept in a temperature controlled garage and I usually charge it every other day for 1 hour and once a month a full charge. My last battery reading was June 2024 at 50.66. This December the car will be 7 years old. Currently the ODO shows 27,420.
When I purchased the car the dealers would not discount it so I paid 38K, minus 7500 federal rebate. No State rebate available in Utah. Still, I consider the car my favorite of all time and will probably continue to drive it until it gives up.

 

[Dan Albrich]

bpratt, that is awesome. I also love this car and always have. I forgot to mention I'm just a hair under 70K miles now on my 2018 with the 45.08ah reading.

Lots of early speculation on this, but if the car loses EV range over time but continues to run unfettered otherwise, it will be fantastic (and is already great). What I mean is the only 'trouble' / costly repair is if instead of gradual loss, ones gets to a point where you get an error message that means the traction battery must be replaced. I haven't yet seen anyone complain of such, and hopefully never will. But loss of EV range is no biggy at all to me. Loss of use until an expensive repair would be more of a concern. But I'll take my chances. Like you say, (and I say), we love the car.

 

[MFKilla]

OK @MFKilla,
Spill the beans !
I have enough experience with this to know that you are not defying the laws of physics and magically rejuvenating the HV battery!

As you have undoubtedly read, we are aware of these phantom battery capacity resets, but we have been unable to definitively identify what causes them. Our best guess is that disconnecting the 12V battery (for an extended period) can cause this.

And, your 'procedure' definitely will not increase your actual range... You may get an artificially high reading out of the Guess-O-Meter, but you will not actually achieve those miles and the reading will return to normal in due course.

So, please enlighten us as to what your 'procedure' is - It would benefit the group to know what not to do in order to avoid a phantom capacity reset. Is it an extended disconnect of the 12V battery (how long), or is it something that you do with the infotainment controls, or in the OBD2 settings?

Bro, I did 4 full charge after reset. Sometimes use HV charge mode.
So few digits after reset
1st charge did 88.0km EV range SoC 99% 54.98Ah (city)
2dn charge did 86.3 EV range SoC 99% 54.64Ah (city)
3rd charge did 82.7 EV range Soc 99% 54.64Ah (highway 80km/h + a little stuck in the city traffic)
4th charge did 95.1 EV range DoC 99% 54.64Ah

 

[MrFixit]

@MFKilla,
You can believe that you somehow rejuvenated the HV battery in this vehicle if you want.
The experience in this forum has demonstrated that these "Resets" are temporary, and over time, the capacity will return to where it was before the reset.

We have numerous examples of this. Here is plot that shows two examples (orange and green curves).
The blue curve shows normal behavior without a reset.



Note that the 'recovery' from one of these reset events can take as long as ~10K miles.

Keep watching your capacity over time (not from charge to charge, but from month to month).
I think you will find (like we did) that the capacity reading is false for a good while while the calculation recovers.

If your capacity remains this high, you have somehow violated the laws of physics !

 

[MFKilla]

If your capacity remains this high, you have somehow violated the laws of physics !

You forgot about one thing. Errors in internal blocks may give wrong information to TCU and using not full of power of battery.
Anyway I do read parameters after each charging for statistics

 

[MFKilla]

@MFKilla,
You can believe that you somehow rejuvenated the HV battery in this vehicle if you want.
The experience in this forum has demonstrated that these "Resets" are temporary, and over time, the capacity will return to where it was before the reset.

We have numerous examples of this. Here is plot that shows two examples (orange and green curves).
The blue curve shows normal behavior without a reset.

View attachment 23051

Note that the 'recovery' from one of these reset events can take as long as ~10K miles.

Keep watching your capacity over time (not from charge to charge, but from month to month).
I think you will find (like we did) that the capacity reading is false for a good while while the calculation recovers.

If your capacity remains this high, you have somehow violated the laws of physics !

My statistics. Last 8 charging capacity is stay on 52.48 Kw

 

[MrFixit]

My statistics. Last 8 charging capacity is stay on 52.48 Kw

Thanks for the data.

After 'resetting' the capacity, you have dropped by 2.16 aH in a month (1550 km, or 960 miles).
It will be interesting to monitor what happens going forward.. Although your capacity is 'flat' over the last 8 charges, it will continue to go down. If your car behaves like we have seen with others, I think the capacity will be near the 47 aH (what you saw before the reset) over the next 15,000 km.

 

[TC1782]

Unlike you, I don't IGNORE people who are rude and condescending. I find the entertainment value worth the disgust.

Disproving what you have to say is extraordinary simple: what you propose the clarity is doing is physically impossible. It cannot happen. Unless you mean to suggest that literally half of the cars battery is used as a failover, an idea so absurd it's not even worth discussing. The clarity is not equipped with contactors for every battery cell, there are 2 sets of contactors, one for battery pack A, one for battery pack B. The car has no such mechanism to electrically disconnect one module from the pack.

 

[Landshark]

Disproving what you have to say is extraordinary simple: what you propose the clarity is doing is physically impossible. It cannot happen. Unless you mean to suggest that literally half of the cars battery is used as a failover, an idea so absurd it's not even worth discussing. The clarity is not equipped with contactors for every battery cell, there are 2 sets of contactors, one for battery pack A, one for battery pack B. The car has no such mechanism to electrically disconnect one module from the pack.

Be advised that questioning the ideas of other members and presenting facts may be viewed as toxic or aggressive by some forum members.

Also, bear in mind that 8 year olds writing software can solve nearly every conundrum.

 

[Landshark]

When I bought the car, the napkin numbers I worked out at the time told me I'd want the car to last at least 10 years to have it make sense for me. I think I'll make it at least 10 years. (i.e. the new car's ride saves me at least $1000/yr in gas vs. my old Subaru. So I figured a net cost of 25K would make the car feel like it cost about 15K over the 10 years, and doesn't drive/feel like a cheap economy car).

Your numbers suggest that the vehicle will have a value of zero after 10 years. If your intention is to donate the car to a charity or relative, that makes sense.

We were in for a net cost of about $23.5K and sold the car after 4 1/2 years for $20K. That $3500 cost works out to about $65/mo. In general, operating costs were less with the Clarity than they were with the car it replaced. I never took the time to crunch the numbers. The Clarity got slight better fuel economy. Operating on electricity was somewhat less expensive than gas in California, and significantly less expensive in Oregon. Repairs were non existent, whereas the 14 year old car always needed something. Insurance rates increased on the new car, but were more than offset by all of the above.

At the 10 year mark, a Clarity in good shape might fetch $8-10K, so that number could be subtracted from your figure of $15K.

 

[Dan Albrich]

I'd also add, while I do care about the environment, I tend to be pragmatic. i.e. While I'm pleased my PHEV has less impact on the planet, the dollars also had to make sense. Anyway, I am convinced the Clarity purchase will turn out to be a cost-effective mode of transportation. I suspect over the total ownership of the car it will be less expensive than my Subaru was (not that the Subaru was a bad car), but the gas mileage was never great, it did have multiple repairs including two head gasket replacements late in its life (totaling more than 7K for both).

To the folks who would say "oh boy, your taking a big chance driving that PHEV or hybrid," I'd say you can have an expensive ownership experience with a gas-only car too. And some of it is a bit of luck of the draw.

 

[rdav]

Just wanted to put my info here as I do not want to risk breaking the spreadsheet. Just bought my clarity yesterday and checked the battery capacity with the recommended OBD2 scanner and got 43.34AH at 112k miles. Seemingly a little above average/projected for its mileage. No clue about how it was driven in the past and we'll have to see how I end up driving it over the next few months and the subsequent battery readings.