Gear Reduction Oil Change

[KiwiME]

... Guess what, they are NOT magnetic! ...

Yes, it's quite bizarre. Was first discovered in Dec '21.
https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...ev-motor-noise-issue.12076/page-4#post-153948

You could either buy the Toyota part (just one), slap a magnet on the outside as many have done, or just not worry about it.

 

[electriceddy]

Need more info. Crush washers? Picture would be nice. As the saga goes on, I checked the "Plug-Magnets" I received. Guess what, they are NOT magnetic! Will not pick up a paper clip! I have shown this missing magnetic action to my dealer they said - hmmm. Return them. The problem is that I bought these at an other dealer. I will take them back to there. But returning them will not solve the issue does it?

The experiment - How magnetic is this?
Hyundai part, real magnet and a paper clip
View attachment 20877

I will keep you posted.

Keep them, they have flat tops and will accept external 3/4" Neodymium. I JB Welded 2 of them onto the plugs, painted them (outside only) for cosmetic reasons, and no issues. I still have the old plugs and spare magnets should I decide to change the oil later (if I still own the car).
The crush washers I included the part #s previous (45323-39000) which the dealer should stock as they are used in a lot of other cars as well (just make sur they have them as they are required

 

[Lars]

Yes, it's quite bizarre. Was first discovered in Dec '21.
https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...ev-motor-noise-issue.12076/page-4#post-153948

You could either buy the Toyota part (just one), slap a magnet on the outside as many have done, or just not worry about it.
View attachment 20878

Love your proposed options! 1; 2; 3! Interesting to see that the Toyota plug has a magnet insert. The Hyundai plug seems to have the space for the magnet. Almost like somebody forgot a process step during manufacturing and made a few thousands.

I will return the plugs to Hyundai. Honesty I am inclined not to worry about it. On the other hand I may just pick up a Toyota plug and use it. And really don't think I will bother painting it.

 

[Lars]

Keep them, they have flat tops and will accept external 3/4" Neodymium. I JB Welded 2 of them onto the plugs, painted them (outside only) for cosmetic reasons, and no issues. I still have the old plugs and spare magnets should I decide to change the oil later (if I still own the car).
The crush washers I included the part #s previous (45323-39000) which the dealer should stock as they are used in a lot of other cars as well (just make sur they have them as they are required

The crush washers I included the part #s previous (45323-39000) which the dealer should stock as they are used in a lot of other cars as well (just make sur they have them as they are required[/QUOTE]

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Thanks. It seems obvious to me that this plug needs a proper washer, but hey! I wonder if we should just do the work ourselves and show them how. Isn't this the same process as plain old oil change on a petrol guzzler?

 

[KiwiME]

.... Isn't this the same process as plain old oil change on a petrol guzzler?

Even easier as there's no oil filter and it's only 1 litre. Once the cover is off it's about as hard as an oil change on a lawnmower.

The Hyundai plug seems to have the space for the magnet...

One Kona owner over at SpeakEVs simply dropped a 10mm round magnet in that pocket. It's takes a leap of faith to accept that it won't go anywhere.

 

[electriceddy]

it's about as hard as an oil change on a lawnmower.

Probably the best description I have seen to date

 

[Lars]

Even easier as there's no oil filter and it's only 1 litre. Once the cover is off it's about as hard as an oil change on a lawnmower.
One Kona owner over at SpeakEVs simply dropped a 10mm round magnet in that pocket. It's takes a leap of faith to accept that it won't go anywhere.

I was thinking about that too. BUT should that bugger somehow get loose it could cause major destruction in the gearbox. Not worth it. After all - if I recall correctly - the EV's 8yr, 160,000km warranty covers - beyond the battery itself - the whole EV drive system, motor etc. That should include the reduction gear. Of course should that little piece of magnet somehow get loose inside .... good luck.

 

[KiwiME]

It's a method that has been commonly used for decades in conventional automatic transmissions that have a stamped steel oil pan such as the example below (Cadillac CT6) where a raised dimple is used to keep the magnet from sliding around.

 

[Lars]

It's a method that has been commonly used for decades in conventional automatic transmissions that have a stamped steel oil pan such as the example below (Cadillac CT6) where a raised dimple is used to keep the magnet from sliding around.

OK but I Can't see how this method applies to Kona EVs.

 

[KiwiME]

... BUT should that bugger somehow get loose it could cause major destruction in the gearbox. Not worth it. ...

 

[Lars]

Probably the best description I have seen to date

Disagree! I never had to climb under lawnmower and use a syringe to fill the fresh oil.

 

[KiwiME]

You don't need a syringe. I use the funnel supplied with my generator with a length of tubing to reach the fill opening from above.

 

[Lars]

You don't need a syringe. I use the funnel supplied with my generator with a length of tubing to reach the fill opening from above.
View attachment 20923

Splitting hair? OK - neat 'syringe' replacement! Congrats. But you still have to climb under the car.

 

[Lars]

Just to 'muddy the water' about reduction gear oil change. After inquiring about this service and a magnetic drain plug I received this letter from my dealer on 2022-01-28.

Quote:
"Good Morning,
Sorry it has taken a bit to try and find out the information for you.
Your vehicle takes 1.0-1.1 litres of SAE70W gear oil and the recommended interval is to inspect every 112,000kms
We do charge $55/per litre and $39.95 to replace.
As for the Magnetic drain plug, after looking into it for you, Hyundai does not supply them so unfortunately I am unable to get one on order for you.

If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to call or email me.

Thanks
Maddy
Service appointment coordinator"

So if one needs a complete transmission replacement under 120,000km, Hyundai can not say you did not change the oil.

Regardless, if one plans to keep the car longer it seems a good investment.

 

[electriceddy]

Regardless, if one plans to keep the car longer it seems a good investment.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with shortening the "recommended" interval, particularly given the issues that have surfaced.
I found the car actually was quieter after replacement-an added bonus.
Add to that, if the GRU or motor bearing goes belly up, the wait time and systematic procedure for replacement parts along with a temporary replacement vehicle... make that minimum investment worthwhile.

 

[Lars]

Looking at some video here:

Now I know why one needs two plugs. One for draining, one for filling the oil.

Here is the comparison what the guy uses and the Hyundai original.

 

[Genevamech]

Did the oil change today and took a sample that I'll be sending off for testing. I've had no symptoms at all (15K miles) but it's one of the things I wanted to check before deciding if I'm going to buy it at the end of the lease. Refilled with 1 quart of MT-LV 70W/75W GL-4 recommended upthread, which is clear with just a hint of haze. I have another quart and set of crush washers so I can change it again if needed.

Not sure what color the OEM oil is but it was dark dark oily color and reeked of sulfur which isn't that surprising for a gear oil. I did see a little hint of that swirly sheen that you might expect from very fine metal particles. Not enough to get a rainbow but definitely a hint of swirl in the sunlight. This could be normal break-in wear? I'll mess with the waste oil a bit at my leisure and see if I can filter anything out of it. Wondering if anyone noticed similar and if it's something to keep a closer eye on?

 

[KiwiME]

Three Kona owners at minimum have posted photos of first changes around 2,500 mile / 4,000 km that show significant silver particles in blackened oil. Other changes reported at higher miles tend to show less silver and more black, while those done earlier are clear but with visible particles.

My first change was at 19,400 km and there was no silver, only fine black particles. The next oil change in place only 1,900 km was clean but showed very faint signs of brass contamination, which I believe comes from a grounding device at the input shaft and is not of any concern.

From my general observations from the many owners who have reported oil changes, by 15k miles / 20k km all particles are crushed into black dust. That's why I recommend that the optimum change time is more like around 1,000 miles. Bearing raceways damaged from crushing hardened steel particles but henceforth provided with clean oil could live forever with only some added noise. Or, that initial damage could snowball into eventual catastrophic failure. Bearings require clean oil to reach their design lifetime.

As a rough guess from the number of reports of gearbox replacements, the chance of failure is well under 0.1 %. With the minimal data we have unfortunately there is no way to correlate dirty oil with gearbox failures but common sense tells me it is, and perhaps the only reason because no other major defects have arisen.

Based on the low returns of particles we are seeing on owner-installed magnetic plugs post first oil change, I think they are only worth the trouble if installed from new. Until Hyundai removes the rattling magnet and replaces it with a normal magnetic plug the only mitigation concerned owners can apply is one very early change and optionally further every 2nd or 3rd service.

The OEM oil BTW is "clear brown".


photo credit to ozkona, around 4,000 km


my first change at 19,400 km


left to settle with a square magnet on the cap for several weeks


my second change, Redline oil in use only from 19,400 to 21, 200 km.

 

[Genevamech]

Lab results came back (yay~) - blame USPS for the time delay. Basically confirms what I already figured; most likely normal break-in debris.

"Aluminum, iron, and silicon are high in this sample, but this is the first oil change, so those are normal finds. The extra metal is from parts wearing in, and silicon is from sealer/lube used during assembly. After a few more oil changes, those elements should wash out, and wear should start to look more like universal averages. Those are on the far right, and they show typical wear after about 25,000 miles of oil use. No moisture was found, and insolubles at 0.2% show the oil wasn't excessively oxidized. Looks okay so far. Just check back next time on wear-in."

 

[KiwiME]

It always amuses me how similar the comments on UOA results are to horoscopes . I guess they just have to take a stab at it and hope you come back next time!

I've placed your results on my ongoing graph and here's where the Fe and Al results compare with the 14 other owners who have provided lab results. They lie just under the trend lines, which represent the average of all (15) 1st-time oil changes, by interval (in km).

So, my 2-cents is that it's a good result in those terms.

I ignore the other values because we know the silicone is not important and that there's no unusual oil oxidation taking place. Sometimes the particle count is telling because that metal is present not yet small enough to be included in the PPM numbers. At 15,100 miles I expect those are not very high because you're well past break-in

Thanks for posting that report, every one adds to the body of knowledge. If the graph is not readable, here's a link.