That must be the one that charges 0.50 per minute... which would be $15 assuming if it's a DC charge? Couple of hours for an L2 charge and the bill would be horrendous.
What will happen to CCS?
- Thread starter Jim In Tucson
- Start date
- Replies 100
- Views 10K
MrSnrub
Well-Known Member
Can’t should be Can
AndysComputer
Well-Known Member
People need to remember that the car companies would be very happy if the whole EV transition went away.
They don’t want to do it.
They never did want to do it.
Anything they did do was only to meet impending legislation which they were simultaneously trying to lobby against.
Due to battery tech back then they had an easy time showing it wasn’t practical, hydrogen was presented to be a better choice. But they couldn’t meet timelines so it was “give us 10-15 years”. 5 years later it was “give us 10-15 years” and so on forever.
It was never going to come.
Tesla exists only because GM killed off the EV1. If they had stuck with it, as Musk says, released EV2, EV3 etc he would have bought one of those. The engineers working at GM and their partners would still be there and the sports car that later became a real product via Musk would never have been started and even if it was would never have become an actual real business based on the people managing the company. And even if it did they would have been squished by GM.
The legacy car companies and oil industry should have seen the writing on the wall the moment the model s came out at the latest. I know I did.
The fact Tesla was allowed (by them competitively) to grow as it did and, build a proper charging network, is amazing to me. By the time the model 3 got through manufacturing he’ll and profits started to come in there should have been crisis meetings at every legacy auto maker. But they still dragged their feet.
And yes, forcing EA to build a network but not maintain the service is insanity. I can only assume they weren’t forced to hand over the money to the government to build it due to philosophical differences in the US re capitalism and not having the gov compete with private business.
It shows just how the car makers were very confident Tesla would fail and the whole thing would go away and be business as usual.
Even the oil companies didn’t panic and start putting chargers in their gas stations as they obviously thought it wasn’t a threat to that business.
Even when these companies have done something, it’s been limited availability product at naturally high prices. They complain they can’t make money on them but they’re not mass producing them. Almost any non Tesla EV has a waiting list and limited production numbers per year. They say car “X” is sold out but they won’t reveal how many that is. Then later when sales figures get released you can see they’re barely selling any. But they’re not sitting on lots, if you go to the dealer and try and order one it’s back ordered for months.
I personally think the car companies, many of whom are involved in EA, are putting out limited poor product on purpose and hoping the few that do buy them will be so dissatisfied they will come back and trade for a gas car. I am very suspicious of the EA network and I think the non EA ones are just building businesses based on government subsidies which they hope to eventually sell.
Tesla Model Y is l now the number one selling “car” in the world. Of any kind.
In the USA the model Y is the number 1 EV and the model 3 is the number of 3.
The 2nd place model 3 sells more than all the other car companies EVs combined. The Y sells more than every other EV including the model 3 combined.
Tesla may be losing market share, but if I sold 1 million EVs last year and was the only one selling them, then this year I sell 2 million but one company sells a single car, I still lost market share.
In reality despite a growing field, Tesla sales, which are already dominating the market, have increased 50% last quarter via the prior year, and everyone else, on much lower actual numbers, have dropped or only grown by like 20%.
The legacy industry is in crisis. It may already be too late for them.
And it’s not because Tesla are somehow exploiting a monopoly position, it’s because the others aren’t really trying.
I fully expect the legacy automakers to go bankrupt and get bailed out again. And the government will. Which is not fair to Tesla or the tax payer. If they fail, let them fail, millions of jobs or not. This is self inflicted irresponsible behavior paying themselves and share holders bonuses on a business they think is going to implode.
I don’t believe half of Musks “for humanity” claims, and I don’t like monopolies, but the reality is they have made good cars and a charging infrastructure that is so far ahead of everyone else it isn’t even funny.
Should they be punished for a monopoly position created not through aggressive take overs but through incompetence and apathy by their competitors? I don’t think so…
And as for trusting Musk, what’s the alternative? Do I trust the liars at GM, Toyota etc who all said this stuff couldn’t be done and keep making giant SUV’s and over priced trucks? And an oil industry that has lied for decades?l and caused who knows how many health problems and deaths? And is supported by tax payers money and endless wars in the Middle East that create terrorism?
I’ll take Musk and his unpalatable views over that lot any day…
They don’t want to do it.
They never did want to do it.
Anything they did do was only to meet impending legislation which they were simultaneously trying to lobby against.
Due to battery tech back then they had an easy time showing it wasn’t practical, hydrogen was presented to be a better choice. But they couldn’t meet timelines so it was “give us 10-15 years”. 5 years later it was “give us 10-15 years” and so on forever.
It was never going to come.
Tesla exists only because GM killed off the EV1. If they had stuck with it, as Musk says, released EV2, EV3 etc he would have bought one of those. The engineers working at GM and their partners would still be there and the sports car that later became a real product via Musk would never have been started and even if it was would never have become an actual real business based on the people managing the company. And even if it did they would have been squished by GM.
The legacy car companies and oil industry should have seen the writing on the wall the moment the model s came out at the latest. I know I did.
The fact Tesla was allowed (by them competitively) to grow as it did and, build a proper charging network, is amazing to me. By the time the model 3 got through manufacturing he’ll and profits started to come in there should have been crisis meetings at every legacy auto maker. But they still dragged their feet.
And yes, forcing EA to build a network but not maintain the service is insanity. I can only assume they weren’t forced to hand over the money to the government to build it due to philosophical differences in the US re capitalism and not having the gov compete with private business.
It shows just how the car makers were very confident Tesla would fail and the whole thing would go away and be business as usual.
Even the oil companies didn’t panic and start putting chargers in their gas stations as they obviously thought it wasn’t a threat to that business.
Even when these companies have done something, it’s been limited availability product at naturally high prices. They complain they can’t make money on them but they’re not mass producing them. Almost any non Tesla EV has a waiting list and limited production numbers per year. They say car “X” is sold out but they won’t reveal how many that is. Then later when sales figures get released you can see they’re barely selling any. But they’re not sitting on lots, if you go to the dealer and try and order one it’s back ordered for months.
I personally think the car companies, many of whom are involved in EA, are putting out limited poor product on purpose and hoping the few that do buy them will be so dissatisfied they will come back and trade for a gas car. I am very suspicious of the EA network and I think the non EA ones are just building businesses based on government subsidies which they hope to eventually sell.
Tesla Model Y is l now the number one selling “car” in the world. Of any kind.
In the USA the model Y is the number 1 EV and the model 3 is the number of 3.
The 2nd place model 3 sells more than all the other car companies EVs combined. The Y sells more than every other EV including the model 3 combined.
Tesla may be losing market share, but if I sold 1 million EVs last year and was the only one selling them, then this year I sell 2 million but one company sells a single car, I still lost market share.
In reality despite a growing field, Tesla sales, which are already dominating the market, have increased 50% last quarter via the prior year, and everyone else, on much lower actual numbers, have dropped or only grown by like 20%.
The legacy industry is in crisis. It may already be too late for them.
And it’s not because Tesla are somehow exploiting a monopoly position, it’s because the others aren’t really trying.
I fully expect the legacy automakers to go bankrupt and get bailed out again. And the government will. Which is not fair to Tesla or the tax payer. If they fail, let them fail, millions of jobs or not. This is self inflicted irresponsible behavior paying themselves and share holders bonuses on a business they think is going to implode.
I don’t believe half of Musks “for humanity” claims, and I don’t like monopolies, but the reality is they have made good cars and a charging infrastructure that is so far ahead of everyone else it isn’t even funny.
Should they be punished for a monopoly position created not through aggressive take overs but through incompetence and apathy by their competitors? I don’t think so…
And as for trusting Musk, what’s the alternative? Do I trust the liars at GM, Toyota etc who all said this stuff couldn’t be done and keep making giant SUV’s and over priced trucks? And an oil industry that has lied for decades?l and caused who knows how many health problems and deaths? And is supported by tax payers money and endless wars in the Middle East that create terrorism?
I’ll take Musk and his unpalatable views over that lot any day…
JonR
Well-Known Member
@AndysComputer even if you drive a Tesla, you are still using so many products from the oil industry. Tires, the roads, every little piece of plastic, and more are all made from crude oil. I get your point but at the same time, I'd rather buy products from anyone else other than Musk. If I needed to do long distance driving, I would get an ICE powered car. I have been thinking about getting the last model year of the F56 JCW with a 6 speed. A Miata RF is also always on the table.
pictsidhe
Well-Known Member
I think the government would bend Tesla over some railings and teach them a lesson they'd never forget if they tried that during a disaster.
AndysComputer
Well-Known Member
that’s true, in fact I do often remind ppl here in Texas that the oil industry isn’t going anywhere, and that we’ll just stop burning the stuff for transport, so many problems will remain.
pictsidhe
Well-Known Member
I've come across and used a few BP and Shell DCFCs. They are far more reliable than EA.
Shell is installing a lot of stations in my area. Apart from one being 'closed' by tape for painting, they have been great. Hmmm run out of charge, or duck my SE under the tape...
Don't talk to me about Chargepoint. They are a last resort...
Shell is installing a lot of stations in my area. Apart from one being 'closed' by tape for painting, they have been great. Hmmm run out of charge, or duck my SE under the tape...
Don't talk to me about Chargepoint. They are a last resort...
Don't talk to me about blinkin' Blink. Chargepoint is 100% more likely to work than Blink in my experience.
fishbert
Well-Known Member
Chargepoints are my go-to, honestly.
I have yet to encounter a broken one, and since so many of them around here max out at 62kW (more than enough for the SE), they're almost never occupied.
TuppyGlossop
New Member
wow - is this with an adapter for the CCS?
pictsidhe
Well-Known Member
I have to phone them about 50% of the time. The app only ever shows one charger. Often none. The one charger that it does show often has some issue. That can be as simple as being the wrong side for my car.
I have been unable to get a card from them.
A lot of the time, I can't get any to work, even after calling.
Domenick
Well-Known Member
This is at one of the few Supercharger sites that have the "MagicDock" adaptor built into the charging station.
fishbert
Well-Known Member
I don't know that this has been explicitly confirmed anywhere, but we're thinking these are sites that have been updated to "talk" CCS for supercharging (like what NACS will do)... right?
Puppethead
Well-Known Member
CCS's days may actually be numbered, considering how quickly everyone's adopting NACS, and now there's this: SAE is standardizing NACS – making it less dependent on Tesla. Of course I wouldn't be surprised if there ends up being SAE NACS and Tesla NACS...
teslarati97
Well-Known Member
There will likely be a fragmentation because ISO 15118-3 is for power line communication (aka current CCS1) and ISO 15118-8 and more recently ISO 15118-20 is for TCP/IP communication.
The other issue is whole site management (20+ dispensers), which doesn't seem to be a problem in Europe with CCS2. Even Tesla managed to make CC2 look sleek (except that 697V Kia EV6 capped out at 42kW at the V4 supercharger).
Domenick
Well-Known Member
I believe so.
MrSnrub
Well-Known Member
Magicdock in NY or CA
Pennyworth
Member
BMW Group
"We reached out to the BMW Group—which includes Alpina, Mini, and Rolls Royce—and asked if it had plans on joining the NACS migration. A representative responded with the following statement:
"The comprehensive expansion of charging infrastructure is one of the critical keys to widespread EV adoption. We are actively monitoring the ongoing discussions and developments and will take the right steps in due course to ensure a seamless EV journey for our customers." Not yet!"
https://www.motortrend.com/features/tesla-nacs-charging-port-automaker-compatibility/
"We reached out to the BMW Group—which includes Alpina, Mini, and Rolls Royce—and asked if it had plans on joining the NACS migration. A representative responded with the following statement:
"The comprehensive expansion of charging infrastructure is one of the critical keys to widespread EV adoption. We are actively monitoring the ongoing discussions and developments and will take the right steps in due course to ensure a seamless EV journey for our customers." Not yet!"
https://www.motortrend.com/features/tesla-nacs-charging-port-automaker-compatibility/