What will happen to CCS?

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/06/rivian-is-the-next-automaker-to-adopt-teslas-charging-plugs/

… today Rivian revealed that it, too, is switching from CCS to NACS, Tesla's competing standard, in 2024.

In an email to customers, Rivian said that it would make adapters available, so people should not wait for the factory to switch over to the NACS port from CCS1. It also says that it will add Tesla charging sites to its mobile and vehicle navigation apps. From 2025, it will start building NACS ports into its vehicles.
 
This is horrible. GM and Ford have screwed us.

Just wait until there is a natural disaster like a hurricane or fire and people will crowd the interstates to get away. The chargers will have long lines and I guarantee that Tesla will temporarily stop allowing non-Teslas use their charging network.
 
JonR said:
Just wait until there is a natural disaster like a hurricane or fire and people will crowd the interstates to get away. The chargers will have long lines and I guarantee that Tesla will temporarily stop allowing non-Teslas use their charging network.
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  1. Unlike gas cars, most EVs will likely be starting out with a full “tank”, so I don’t think long lines at chargers will be much of a concern.
  2. I haven’t seen anyone say they’re going to stop building out non-Tesla charger networks. All of this NACS stuff is about everyone else adopting Tesla’s physical plug, and Tesla adopting the CCS protocol; it’s not about Tesla killing off everyone else and becoming a charger monopoly.
 
Long lines are already a reality for normal things like holiday travel. And you can't convince me that Tesla will not find a way to screw over non-Tesla owners.
 
NACS as a standard doesn't imply that everyone will be using Tesla chargers. As vehicle manufactures are moving to a standard, so are the manufacturers making chargers. The question for us is really if we need to drive around with adapters or to assume that adapters will be provided where the charge. I'm generally a short term pessimist but a long term optimist, so I expect both vehicle and charger manufacturers to screw things up in the short term. Much like HDMI, and the horrors of trying to communicate between things in the early days of the "standard". Eventually both cars and chargers will converge. Eventually.
 
The cars are switching to NACS port and the chargers out there will switch too. Car companies who do a deal with Tesla will be able to give their customers access to the Tesla Superchargers *in addition to* the chargers they currently use. It’s more, not less. And if Tesla turned off access (unlikely due to A the bad publicity and B contracts as the legacy automakers are not stupid and have armies of lawyers) you would only be back where you currently are.

NACS is a better connector but the charger companies need to improve the reliability of their hardware regardless of the connector on it. And sort out their software. And the car manufacturers need to sort out their software also.
Far from screwing us, access to the super chargers would enable road tripping with confidence in the Mini.

The people who have screwed us are the. public charger makers, public charging networks, and to a lesser extent, legacy auto makers. They put their hands out for government money while delivering sub standard hardware and software with fat profits. As it collapses around them and the Tesla network shows itself to be reliable and easy to use, and is scaling out at an ever accelerating rate, the legacy auto makers have no choice but to switch.

EA and their suppliers have not improved as the years have ticked by, they’ve gotten worse.

I have said I would not recommend anyone buy a CCS car unless they only leave the range of their home charger once in a blue moon. Even the YouTubers who went easy on Those networks are finally seeing it my way, and the public is figuring it out also.

The legacy auto makers are at risk of never gaining significant sales and market share as customers switch to EVs because right now that means switching from gas to Tesla vehicles. With the prices of Tesla’s back down where they should be and eligibility for IRA, right now, you have to be clueless or an Elon hater to buy anything other than a Tesla unless you don’t road trip. Otherwise you’re only screwing your self.

Which is why we bought our Mini. We don’t road trip it. But for our other car, which is mainly used for road trips, we went Tesla and have zero regrets and I would do the same again. It doesn’t matter if I think some other car is better looking, or higher quality, or whatever. Even if it charges faster and had more range like a Lucid it doesn’t matter. It’s all about the Superchargers.

The other automakers have finally figured that out and are even willing to jump ship and give their arch rival money and exposure. They wouldn’t be doing this if they weren’t desperate.
 
What will happen to CCS?
Car manufacturers that adopt NACS will have GPS that displays Tesla owned charging stations prominently. The car owners will also prefer the Tesla network as it avoids using an adapter. Even if the CCS charging stations provide NACS plugs, they will slowly become obsolete. As you pointed out, these companies have done a poor job at providing reliable charging stations.

We will then have a near monopoly charging network owned by Tesla. That sucks. I also really think Tesla will charge more for non-Teslas, not charge non-Teslas as quickly, ban certain make, model, or owners cars, and/or not allow non-Teslas to charge fully or at all during high demand.

Elon Musk is just a terrible, terrible person that I just don't trust nor do I want to enable. I won't buy a Tesla and I won't use their charging network.
 
My wife has a Tesla. Their supercharging network makes road trips ridiculously easy. Other than that, I can't say I like anything else about the company. Maybe add frunk, haha.
 
JonR said:
We will then have a near monopoly charging network owned by Tesla. That sucks. I also really think Tesla will charge more for non-Teslas, not charge non-Teslas as quickly, ban certain make, model, or owners cars, and/or not allow non-Teslas to charge fully or at all during high demand.

Elon Musk is just a terrible, terrible person that I just don't trust nor do I want to enable. I won't buy a Tesla and I won't use their charging network.
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That is correct. For the most part Teslas peak on the charging curve around the 40-50% range and then start to taper off.

For load sharing purposes I'd imagine there will be restrictions on charging for Ford/GM/Rivian anyways. Probably still better than the Lucid Air & 697V Korean EVs peaking around 45kW with the magic dock.
 
Jim In Tucson said:
Now that Ford and GM have adopted the Tesla “standard” NACS charging connection, what will happen to CCS? Near term and long term?

What will Electrify America do? Blink? ChargePoint? EVgo? Etc.?

Will all other car companies follow?

Will this speed up BEV adoption or simply cause even greater confusion and consequently slow down adoption?


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
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I think it may be too early to write off the non-Tesla charging networks, but they really need to up their game, now that drivers have a more reliable option.
The sharing only begins early next year, so Electrify America, EVGo, and the others have about 6 months to get it together and offer reliability approaching Tesla's.
There are many billions of already-invested and future revenue dollars at stake here, so I expect to see a real effort. The first positive sign, I think, would be fresh capital raises to accelerate new site construction and reliability improvement. Tesla is growing its network faster than the other networks combined, so if they really want to be a competitor in the future, they also need to pick up the pace.
 
CCS will stay for the time being. ChAdemo is all but dead. CCS connector will become like ChAdemo is now. It’s not going to disappear instantly but legacy makers like Ford and GM had no choice. Only blame is on EA for failing so hard and Tesla taking charging seriously. My SE is leased and I was thinking of buying it back but it’s all but certain bmw will make the switch to NACS
 
What's up with all these conspiracy theory narrative about Tesla?

I've been using the Tesla supercharger since it's opened to non Tesla earlier this year and it's been great.

Reliable, consistent, and the app is simple and seamless.

The chargers ramp up to 48 - 50 kWh instantly and stay there until the SOC reaches 80% and then begin to taper off slowly.

All these talks about "not charge non-Teslas as quickly, ban certain make, model, or owners cars, and/or not allow non-Teslas to charge fully or at all during high demand." are complete nonsense.
 
teslarati97 said:
That is correct. For the most part Teslas peak on the charging curve around the 40-50% range and then start to taper off.

For load sharing purposes I'd imagine there will be restrictions on charging for Ford/GM/Rivian anyways. Probably still better than the Lucid Air & 697V Korean EVs peaking around 45kW with the magic dock.
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Not true.

The Tesla supercharger that I have been using ramp up to 48 kWh to 50 kWh instantly when my car has about 15% to 35% and stay at that peak level until the SOC reaches 80% and then begin to taper off "SLOWLY"
 
JonR said:
Long lines are already a reality for normal things like holiday travel. And you can't convince me that Tesla will not find a way to screw over non-Tesla owners.
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So far Tesla has not screwed over this non Tesla owner (me) as far as their superchargers go. I love using them as they work flawlessly so far and they don't cost more then EVgo or Electric America either
 
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I can actually drive to NYC with my SE and not worry too much about charging. I think the concern that some have is putting all your eggs in with Tesla could create situations where you are charged whatver they want and can limit charge output of non Teslas… however as I’ve been saying for years. The actual value of Tesla is their global charging network.

EA was never going to take it seriously as its court ordered and nobody actually cares about the product
 
MrSnrub said:
I can actually drive to NYC with my SE and not worry too much about charging. I think the concern that some have is putting all your eggs in with Tesla could create situations where you are charged whatver they want and can limit charge output of non Teslas… however as I’ve been saying for years. The actual value of Tesla is their global charging network.

EA was never going to take it seriously as its court ordered and nobody actually cares about the product
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Victor company of Japan (JVC) did not raise the price of the VHS tapes to an astronomical price after it "won out" Sony Betamax. In addition, Victor Company of Japan did not produce a sub-standard VHS tapes for the non-JVC brands products. All the electronic manufacturers stopped making Betamax machines and switched to making VHS machines.
 
sacharama said:
Victor company of Japan (JVC) did not raise the price of the VHS tapes to an astronomical price after it "won out" Sony Betamax. In addition, Victor Company of Japan did not produce a sub-standard VHS tapes for the non-JVC brands products. All the electronic manufacturers stopped making Betamax machines and switched to making VHS machines.
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It’s also not 1982 anymore…

a better example is the modern GPU market
 
Although not a big fan of Mr. Musk - Tesla from what little I know and read have established a relatively reliable charging network. As we all know if the country is going to transition to EVs that is exactly what we need. Ford made the right choice.

We have several Charge Point units on campus where I work. One has been out of commission for at least 3 months.
 
You can’t point the finger at politicians for making it a partisan issue and EA not giving a crap. I’ve said multiple times that having a court ordered company build and maintain a network was silly. No incentive for them to keep it working

it’s like a certain gas company here claiming to have a “nationwide network” yea it’s there but out of the way and one dispenser for the location
 
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