2021 Hyundai Kona may have same battery issues as 2019-2020 models

NS KONA Elec said:
Another poster said something similar. They found a sticker all alone on the "bottom of the battery". When they looked behind the battery (vertical face of the aluminum case directly in front of the driver side rear suspension and hard to get at) they found the other stickers as well that clearly show HL GreenPower.
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Label - Battery Rear.webp​

Oh, sly Hyundai! I had looked under the left rear suspension, but not far enough up. There's the same part/ROM number sticker, and one with HL GreenPower but everything else in Korean. No other dates (unless in Korean).

There's also a safety sticker, but only of interest if you want to see how many languages you can count:
Label - Battery Caution.webp (Edit: It didn't post in full resolution. I can do better if anyone cares.)
 
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NS KONA Elec said:
Perhaps they don't say this because they are exactly the same batteries (with minor modifications as time moves on).
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Original cells (2018 - ~2020 were LG E63)
index.php

https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...tery-and-see-real-capacity.10585/#post-124755
Replacement E66A cells were developed to replace the E63 offering more energy density with less weight and volume (slight chemistry alteration - NCM 622 (E63) to NCM 712 (E66A):



LG Chem LGX E63

  • Nominal Capacity: 65,6 Ah (discharged at 21,6 A) – 64,8 Ah (discharged at 32,5 A)
  • Minimum Capacity: 64,6 Ah (discharged at 21,6 A) – 63,8 Ah (discharged at 32,5 A)
  • Nominal Voltage: 3,6 V
  • Charging Voltage: 4,2 V
  • Thickness: 11,5 mm
  • Width: 125 mm
  • Height: 325 mm
  • Volume: 0,4671875 L
  • Weight: 964,9 g
  • Volumetric Energy Density: 492-505 Wh/L
  • Gravimetric Energy Density: 238-245 Wh/kg
  • Chemistry: NCM 622
This was the first battery cell to give the Renault ZOE a decent range with a 41 kWh battery in late 2016, almost doubling it from the previous generation.


LG Chem E66A

  • Nominal Capacity: 65 Ah
  • Minimum Capacity: 63,5 Ah
  • Nominal Voltage: 3,657 V
  • Nominal energy: 237,7 Wh
  • Minimum energy: 232,2 Wh
  • Thickness: 11,7 mm
  • Width: 104 mm
  • Height: 350 mm
  • Volume: 0,425880 L
  • Weight: 897 g
  • Volumetric Energy Density: 648 Wh/L
  • Gravimetric Energy Density: 259 Wh/kg
  • Chemistry: NCM 712

The E66A was made to be a direct replacement for the E63 battery cell. Capacities are very similar, but dimensions and weight are lower. This battery cell is used in the battery pack of the Porsche Taycan, which doesn’t much sense. The large and flat battery pack of the Porsche Taycan could benefit from the usage of longer cells such as the E78.
https://pushevs.com/2021/03/30/ncm-712-by-lg-chem-e66a-and-e78-battery-cells/
and
https://pushevs.com/2020/04/04/comparison-of-different-ev-batteries-in-2020/

While not sure, I think that this battery cell is also used by the Renault Twingo Electric and the latest versions of the Hyundai Kona Electric and Chevrolet Bolt EV.
The manufacturing process of assembling those materials into cell format apparently has not changed, and this is where the issue resides. Perhaps occurring in the folding portion, being intermittent makes it hard to trace. I wonder if the separators, or anodes are installed off a roll (similar to toilet paper), and create a problem when they are down to a few sheets. (rather simple explanation, but that's all I could come up with). If the problem were repeated in every cell manufactured, than that would relate to every battery pack produced, but it doesn't, nor has it showed up in Porsche.
It didn't take very long after N.A. introduction for the first issue to occur (several months)
https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/exploding-kona-electric.6342/
Korean cars seemed to take a little longer before showing similar symptoms (2 days to be exact):
"Another Kona Electric caught fire while charging in Gangneung, Gangwon Province, South Korea on July 28, 2019.[117]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicle_fire_incidents
That is if one doesn't count the 2 that occurred on the Ulsan production line May and August 2018.
The BMS software has been improved to detect issues to help prevent these from occurring, but the root of the problem is still in the manufacturing/assembly at the cell level, Kudos to GM with their response, Hyundai seems to be dragging their feet bound by commitments with LG.
If the issues cannot be resolved, perhaps replacements should be provided by SK Innovation (with LG footing the bill), even if it affects only a limited number of vehicles. Maybe this will wake them up at a corperate level;)
 
electriceddy said:
Original cells (2018 - ~2020 were LG E63)

https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...tery-and-see-real-capacity.10585/#post-124755
Replacement E66A cells were developed to replace the E63 offering more energy density with less weight and volume (slight chemistry alteration - NCM 622 (E63) to NCM 712 (E66A):

The BMS software has been improved to detect issues to help prevent these from occurring, but the root of the problem is still in the manufacturing/assembly at the cell level, Kudos to GM with their response, Hyundai seems to be dragging their feet bound by commitments with LG.
If the issues cannot be resolved, perhaps replacements should be provided by SK Innovation (with LG footing the bill), even if it affects only a limited number of vehicles. Maybe this will wake them up at a corperate level;)
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Hi Eddy,
Great data on the LG E63 being replaced by a smaller E66A.
Can you please provide your source to confirm a date. Did LG/Hyundai post anything to support this?
Thanks!
 
electriceddy said:
Original cells (2018 - ~2020 were LG E63).
Replacement E66A cells were developed to replace the E63 ...
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Is there any way to tell which one we have without taking the battery pack apart?

But if I understand what you're saying, the change doesn't address the fire issue. (In that respect it'd be what we programmers call "a node-op".)
 
Toolworker said:
Is there any way to tell which one we have without taking the battery pack apart?

But if I understand what you're saying, the change doesn't address the fire issue. (In that respect it'd be what we programmers call "a node-op".)
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Probabably no way to tell without cracking it open, unless someone works at the dealership and can weigh a new battery and an old one after it is replaced? Actually, if someone is going in for a battery replacement, somehow weigh your kona before and weight it after....crazy...yup...

However, I do think it would be a significant change. If at some time in 2020 the underlying cells changed to smaller footprint with the same density, it would mean that there is more room within the battery case for coolant, insulation and expansion/contraction of the battery. Heat expansion during charging in a confined tight space is linked to GM battery issues. Arguably, the e66A cells would be lighter and increase your range. More importantly it would be something to tell the existing Kona client base..."we are changing and improving".
Can someone please provide a date for this switch and a source?
Thank you
 
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Danhen said:
You certainly have the right to suspect anything you want, but the title of this thread is misleading in claiming it's a fact the new cars have the same battery issue as the old ones.

LOTS of speculation here, the most conspiracy theory like is that somehow the Kona not being sold in Korea has something to do with the batteries.

Not saying you are not having issues with your car, but I think it needs to be pointed out your attempting to link those issues with your car is mere speculation at this point. It might turn out you are absolutely correct and Hyundai is trying to mislead us, but at this point it's clear your suspicions are far from being proven.

Perhaps the title of the thread should be "Does the '21 Kona still have the same problems?"
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Exactly!
Shark said:
Seems like the pronouncement that 21's have the same battery issues as the earlier cars might be premature. Does not sound like the same symptoms. I also know more than 1/2 dozen '21 owners and the cars have been 100% problem free.

On the other hand hopefully these two reports are not the start of a new round of widespread battery problems.
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Yep.

I don't know what the conventions are here on this forum, but I'd ask that the OP or moderator step in and edit the title of this currently misleading thread. A ? mark at the end or maybe just "2021 Kona battery pack problems".

Re: paywall and article in post 70, you can see a copy of the whole page at https://web.archive.org/web/2021090...sa-asks-lg-if-other-cars-affected/5686165001/.

(FWIW, I've been driving pure BEVs as my primary car for over 8 years now. I've also owned a '19 Bolt for ~2.5 years now that wasn't under recall (US-made pack) until the big news on 8/20/21. It's a mess over in Bolt-land right now and if GM gives me a good buyback offer, '22 Kona EV is as the top of my list as a replacement. But it's possible that I'd be trading one LG Chem potential fire risk for another fire risk/reliability headache...)
 
cwerdna said:
I don't know what the conventions are here on this forum, but I'd ask that the OP or moderator step in and edit the title of this currently misleading thread. A ? mark at the end or maybe just "2021 Kona battery pack problems".
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You can click the Report link at the bottom of a post, and tell Domenick what you think should be done.

Use this sparingly - he is a busy guy - but he does like to keep the forums well organized.
 
cwerdna said:
Re: paywall and article in post 70, you can see a copy of the whole page at https://web.archive.org/web/2021090...sa-asks-lg-if-other-cars-affected/5686165001/.

(FWIW, I've been driving pure BEVs as my primary car for over 8 years now. I've also owned a '19 Bolt for ~2.5 years now that wasn't under recall (US-made pack) until the big news on 8/20/21. It's a mess over in Bolt-land right now and if GM gives me a good buyback offer, '22 Kona EV is as the top of my list as a replacement. But it's possible that I'd be trading one LG Chem potential fire risk for another fire risk/reliability headache...)
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According to the article it looks like Hyundai/LG remediated the fire risk by coating the cell cathodes and presumably fixing folded anode problem (not sure about the possibility of a torn separator as in BOLT). It seems this remediation only applied to the 2022 model year Kona EV. So it it only took them 4 model years to get it right, maybe?
 
apu said:
According to the article it looks like Hyundai/LG remediated the fire risk by coating the cell cathodes and presumably fixing folded anode problem (not sure about the possibility of a torn separator as in BOLT). It seems this remediation only applied to the 2022 model year Kona EV. So it it only took them 4 model years to get it right, maybe?
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If indeed that is the case, then the recall and subsequent replacement should be extended to include MY 2021. Perhaps in the near future? Looking forward to the first annual service in October:eek::confused:
 
My 2021 Kona EV Preferred, purchased in May, was brought in for the 3rd time for an "EV" light. I am now the proud owner of a rental car for the foreseeable future as HC told the dealer not to let me drive it anymore.
Car has always run and I've only charged it to 100% once, diagnostics and troubleshooting will ensue but my gut tells me they're going to confirm battery replacement :(
 
IGSAD said:
My 2021 Kona EV Preferred, purchased in May, was brought in for the 3rd time for an "EV" light. I am now the proud owner of a rental car for the foreseeable future as HC told the dealer not to let me drive it anymore.
Car has always run and I've only charged it to 100% once, diagnostics and troubleshooting will ensue but my gut tells me they're going to confirm battery replacement :(
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Very disappointing.
So much for blaming it on,, charging to 100%.
 
For those who have had this problem, I'd love to know the part number and date on the battery sticker. Of course that's harder to find if the car is at the dealer ...
 
electriceddy said:
Before eliminating that possibility, I am curious as to the time frame when @IGSAD received the first error code POB5900 and the one 100% charge.
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Interestingly enough, the 100% charge was only 1 week prior to the first indication of a problem. I believe it was fully charged when we took delivery of the vehicle.
I left some sunglasses in the car so will be needing to pick them up and will take a picture of the sticker at that time. I believe the battery was manufactured mid December of 2020 if I remember correctly.
 
IGSAD said:
Interestingly enough, the 100% charge was only 1 week prior to the first indication of a problem. I believe it was fully charged when we took delivery of the vehicle.
I left some sunglasses in the car so will be needing to pick them up and will take a picture of the sticker at that time. I believe the battery was manufactured mid December of 2020 if I remember correctly.
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I charged my car to 100% every day for almost all of the first 2 years I've owned it. It never triggered anything untoward in my car. Sometimes a coincidence is just that.
 
Wildeyed said:
I charged my car to 100% every day for almost all of the first 2 years I've owned it. It never triggered anything untoward in my car. Sometimes a coincidence is just that.
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Very well could be!! Great thing about EVs is that there are very few moving parts; the bad thing about EVs is that there are very few moving parts!!!
 
Wildeyed said:
I charged my car to 100% every day for almost all of the first 2 years I've owned it. It never triggered anything untoward in my car. Sometimes a coincidence is just that.
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There's a poll open for bricked Konas. So far only two out of five were charged to 100%.

That said, the question isn't whether Konas are able to charge to 100% without bricking, because most are. The question is, what distinguishes the small number of Konas that are being bricked?
 
I have very little information as to the cause of my "EV" light and Check Electrical Vehicle System annunciator, perhaps I'll get lucky and it'll be a quick component replacement; one can only hope but I'll brace for the worst.
 
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