2021 Hyundai Kona may have same battery issues as 2019-2020 models

[hobbit]

I wasn't going to try and provide references about recycling as I was speaking broadly and theoretically, but
others have and then today this floated across my screen:
https://electrek.co/2021/09/08/ther...ing-standard-but-that-may-be-about-to-change/
so it's clear that quite a few people are doing more than idly thinking about it as a nice idea.

_H*

 

[John Lumsden]

Not surprised at all as the Hyundai group ( Hyundai & Kia ) has never been known for quality products foe ICE products, do not expect any different for their EV products.

Try googling Hyundai quality and reliability these days Dan.

 

[NS KONA Elec]

How can I check the battery type on the 2021 Ultimate I bought in June to replace my bought-back 2020? This one was built in December 2020. I assumed it would have an updated battery, but from this thread, maybe not.

(On the good side, the infotainment system has the old firmware from before Hyundai trashed the UI on the radio screen. I won't be "updating" it.)

On the driver's side of the rear end of the vehicle is a bunch of stickers. Take your cell phone with you and take a bunch of shots of the various labels. One will tell you the manufacturing date etc as well as the model etc. If it was made in korea, it will have an "HL Greenpower" sticker. H stands for Hyundai and L stands for LG Chem. Presumably your battery will have had all of the updates to the point of manufacture (software/firmware and in March 2020 they added extra insulation on the anodes of each cell), but other than that, it is exactly the same as the previous model years.

 

[NS KONA Elec]

Not surprised at all as the Hyundai group ( Hyundai & Kia ) has never been known for quality products foe ICE products, do not expect any different for their EV products.

So, feel that I should comment on this. Don't get me wrong, I own a 2021 Kona with a dead battery (2 months without it) so I am not a happy camper.
However, prior to purchasing the Kona, I have owned 3 Hyundai's. A Tucson which was traded in after 5 years for a 2013 Accent. That Accent was so good, I bought another one. In fact, I still own both Accent's. GDI engine with timing chain, 6 speed manuals just sip fuel, best you could do at the time for fuel efficiency and price point and the best warranty in the business. Paid $11,900 for each and they both have about 200k on them. All I have ever done is change the oil and brake work. Only complaint would be the gas cap light that seems to appear everytime you fill it up. Interestingly enough, these accents are selling used for $7K+ today. That is arguably better than other Asian high end brands.
So. That is why I moved towards a 2021 Kona Electric without hesitation. Did the homework on the previous years, no indications that the 2021's had a single issue. Checked that box off. Let's buy it and enjoy it. Great vehicle (when it drove). Absolutely loved it right up till the day it died (3 months after I bought it with 13k km on it).
My issue is how Hyundai handles this customer service after the sale. It is full stop TERRIBLE. The dealership front end is about sales. They don't make alot of money on this side, they make money on the service. But these Kona electrics aren't supposed to need service. Also, many dealerships don't have the gear to swap a battery because of several reasons. 1. They aren't supposed to need swapping. 2. These items (forklift to remove battery from delivery truck, floor crane to remove battery from shipping crate, lift table to remove/install the replacement battery into the vehicle) are expensive to buy for the dealership.
The way dealerships work is getting paid for warranty work. In my case, I purchased from a dealership that can't perform the warranty work. This means they won't get paid...which means that they won't go to heroic measures to help me.....Hyundai Canada constantly directs me to the dealership service manager.
The result is that I am not happy with Hyundai. Not because of their reputation or quality. They made solid reliable ICE vehicles for years now and have a good reputation in general. When the produced the Kona Electric they went with LG (in Korea at least) probably because there were only 2 electric battery manufacturers that could meet their supply demands. Kia went with SK (known for their quality control and being conservative) while Hyundai went with LG (known for pushing the edge). Kia/SK turned out to be the smart choice and Hyundai has switched to SK for the new Ioniqs. In hindsight, I am sure that Hyundai wouldn't have chosen the LG batteries for the Kona starting off in 2019 but it is done and they are "locked" into this partnership for the remaining Kona years. But seriously....make the Kona Electric clients that have issues happy. Communicate what is being done and reassure us all what exactly is being done to put aside our fears of fire, bricking, replacement battery wait times and eventually keep our resale value. That is just good business and common sense. What they are currently doing is bad business...Not telling us what is going on only lets us continue to speculate that they are "hiding something". Korean's have a huge sense of pride. Perhaps it is shame that keeps them from talking about this, but their silence is only destroying their reputation with threads like this...

 

[miatadan]

So, feel that I should comment on this. Don't get me wrong, I own a 2021 Kona with a dead battery (2 months without it) so I am not a happy camper.
However, prior to purchasing the Kona, I have owned 3 Hyundai's. A Tucson which was traded in after 5 years for a 2013 Accent. That Accent was so good, I bought another one. In fact, I still own both Accent's. GDI engine with timing chain, 6 speed manuals just sip fuel, best you could do at the time for fuel efficiency and price point and the best warranty in the business. Paid $11,900 for each and they both have about 200k on them. All I have ever done is change the oil and brake work. Only complaint would be the gas cap light that seems to appear everytime you fill it up. Interestingly enough, these accents are selling used for $7K+ today. That is arguably better than other Asian high end brands.
So. That is why I moved towards a 2021 Kona Electric without hesitation. Did the homework on the previous years, no indications that the 2021's had a single issue. Checked that box off. Let's buy it and enjoy it. Great vehicle (when it drove). Absolutely loved it right up till the day it died (3 months after I bought it with 13k km on it).
My issue is how Hyundai handles this customer service after the sale. It is full stop TERRIBLE. The dealership front end is about sales. They don't make alot of money on this side, they make money on the service. But these Kona electrics aren't supposed to need service. Also, many dealerships don't have the gear to swap a battery because of several reasons. 1. They aren't supposed to need swapping. 2. These items (forklift to remove battery from delivery truck, floor crane to remove battery from shipping crate, lift table to remove/install the replacement battery into the vehicle) are expensive to buy for the dealership.
The way dealerships work is getting paid for warranty work. In my case, I purchased from a dealership that can't perform the warranty work. This means they won't get paid...which means that they won't go to heroic measures to help me.....Hyundai Canada constantly directs me to the dealership service manager.
The result is that I am not happy with Hyundai. Not because of their reputation or quality. They made solid reliable ICE vehicles for years now and have a good reputation in general. When the produced the Kona Electric they went with LG (in Korea at least) probably because there were only 2 electric battery manufacturers that could meet their supply demands. Kia went with SK (known for their quality control and being conservative) while Hyundai went with LG (known for pushing the edge). Kia/SK turned out to be the smart choice and Hyundai has switched to SK for the new Ioniqs. In hindsight, I am sure that Hyundai wouldn't have chosen the LG batteries for the Kona starting off in 2019 but it is done and they are "locked" into this partnership for the remaining Kona years. But seriously....make the Kona Electric clients that have issues happy. Communicate what is being done and reassure us all what exactly is being done to put aside our fears of fire, bricking, replacement battery wait times and eventually keep our resale value. That is just good business and common sense. What they are currently doing is bad business...Not telling us what is going on only lets us continue to speculate that they are "hiding something". Korean's have a huge sense of pride. Perhaps it is shame that keeps them from talking about this, but their silence is only destroying their reputation with threads like this...

I am going by the awful Accent , Sonata from the late 1990's that some friends owned as well as the Elantra ( rented ) that my than father in law had me drove him to Toronto. As well as the Santa Fe in 2000 was so ugly. Only recently, has their vehicles have decent styling.

I do trust the quality of Toyota, Honda and Mazda a lot more than the Korean brand's. Also can not fan of Samsung ( Android garbage )

Dan

 

[NS KONA Elec]

I am going by the awful Accent , Sonata from the late 1990's that some friends owned as well as the Elantra ( rented ) that my than father in law had me drove him to Toronto. As well as the Santa Fe in 2000 was so ugly. Only recently, has their vehicles have decent styling.

I do trust the quality of Toyota, Honda and Mazda a lot more than the Korean brand's. Also can not fan of Samsung ( Android garbage )

Dan

Miata Dan...Mazda guy right? I remember those gorgeous Mazda 121's from the late 90's...
For those that don't remember (likely because they have all been scooped up by collectors), here is a shot of one.

 

[Ginginova]

After merger Hyundai Kia went to more high quality path a decade ago. Their quality has improved, and so did sales, putting them to top 3 companies in the world.
But that does not make them immune to mistakes and does not mean that they need some work on their service networks.
Massive battery replacements definitely were not on their radar so nothing was designed around this. It is a price to pay for new emerging technologies. Some issues do not appear on computer simulations and lab tests done on few prototypes. Real world scenarios start happening when you have tens of thousands of cars on the road. And sometimes you just miss them during design.
Next generations of electric Hyundais will be better. And there is simply no workaround for long years of experience. This why Tesla is good in EV specifics, but is still underpreforming in other areas.

 

[NS KONA Elec]

After merger Hyundai Kia went to more high quality path a decade ago. Their quality has improved, and so did sales, putting them to top 3 companies in the world.
But that does not make them immune to mistakes and does not mean that they need some work on their service networks.
Massive battery replacements definitely were not on their radar so nothing was designed around this. It is a price to pay for new emerging technologies. Some issues do not appear on computer simulations and lab tests done on few prototypes. Real world scenarios start happening when you have tens of thousands of cars on the road. And sometimes you just miss them during design.
Next generations of electric Hyundais will be better. And there is simply no workaround for long years of experience. This why Tesla is good in EV specifics, but is still underpreforming in other areas.

“Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes.” Oscar Wilde
Hyundai has made mistakes.
Mistake number 1, Going with LG for the Kona...yup, we all get it and can forgive IF they fix it.
Mistake number 2 is currently going on. Hyundai not communicating what was wrong and how they fixed it and how they will support their existing Kona client base so that we continue to support things like the Ioniq5 with our wallets....
I can forgive mistakes, but only if hyundai show that they have learned from them. I haven't seen that yet....have you?

 

[Toolworker]

After merger Hyundai Kia went to more high quality path a decade ago. Their quality has improved, and so did sales, putting them to top 3 companies in the world.
But that does not make them immune to mistakes and does not mean that they need some work on their service networks.
Massive battery replacements definitely were not on their radar so nothing was designed around this. It is a price to pay for new emerging technologies. Some issues do not appear on computer simulations and lab tests done on few prototypes. Real world scenarios start happening when you have tens of thousands of cars on the road. And sometimes you just miss them during design.
Next generations of electric Hyundais will be better. And there is simply no workaround for long years of experience. This why Tesla is good in EV specifics, but is still underpreforming in other areas.

The issue is not vehicle quality. Problems can occur.

The issue is Hyundai Motor America's lack of interest in supporting its customers and dealers when problems do occur.

My 2020 Ultimate repeatedly drained the 12v battery. I won't go through the details again, but after a long struggle for the dealer to get technical support from HMA corporate, their tech looked at a graph of the battery being drained and said "system operating OK since no DTC was present." End of support. No interest in chasing down this problem, which has been reported by other Hyundai EV owners.

Every month Hyundai emails me a monthly report, including a link to download the "2020 Kona Electric Owner’s Manual," which is not online. I have emailed HMA Customer "Care" about this repeatedly. They don't understand the problem. I still get the emails with the link.

Then there are the "upgrades" to the infotainment system that remove features and make it harder to use.

Nevertheless, there's no other EV I like better. So I replaced my buyback 2020 with an identical 2021. I love the car. I expect nothing from HMA.

 

[NS KONA Elec]

At the risk of someone pointing out that I am being negative.
Found this on another thread on this forum regarding recall 196 and started with a casual comment by "thor"....apparently according to "thor" there are more recalls in the works for Kona batteries built in 2021 (as told to thor by a hyundai service rep?)

This is all that I can find that may allude to "more to come"....I don't have access to the paywall for the detroit news site...

AMID BOLT BATTERY FIRE PROBE, NHTSA ASKS LG IF OTHER CARS ARE AFFECTED

- Responding to battery defects that cause a risk of fire in Chevrolet Bolt electric cars, a federal auto safety agency is communicating with the battery's maker, LG Energy Solution, to see whether other carmakers' EVs are affected.

- In a statement, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration told The Detroit News it “currently does not have any open investigations into fires alleged with LG batteries outside of GM” but added that it’s “in touch with LG to identify other vehicles that may be impacted.”

- The federal agency's probe focuses on the GM vehicles with battery cells supplied by LG Energy Solution, whose affiliate LG Electronics assembles the cells into modules and packs.

Original Source : https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/bu...sa-asks-lg-if-other-cars-affected/5686165001/

 

[XtsKonaTrooper]

At the risk of someone pointing out that I am being negative.
Found this on another thread on this forum regarding recall 196 and started with a casual comment by "thor"....apparently according to "thor" there are more recalls in the works for Kona batteries built in 2021 (as told to thor by a hyundai service rep?)

This is all that I can find that may allude to "more to come"....I don't have access to the paywall for the detroit news site...

AMID BOLT BATTERY FIRE PROBE, NHTSA ASKS LG IF OTHER CARS ARE AFFECTED

- Responding to battery defects that cause a risk of fire in Chevrolet Bolt electric cars, a federal auto safety agency is communicating with the battery's maker, LG Energy Solution, to see whether other carmakers' EVs are affected.

- In a statement, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration told The Detroit News it “currently does not have any open investigations into fires alleged with LG batteries outside of GM” but added that it’s “in touch with LG to identify other vehicles that may be impacted.”

- The federal agency's probe focuses on the GM vehicles with battery cells supplied by LG Energy Solution, whose affiliate LG Electronics assembles the cells into modules and packs.

Original Source : https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/bu...sa-asks-lg-if-other-cars-affected/5686165001/

GM exploding this is gonna change things I'm pretty confident. HMC might not worry about Brand Reputation but you can guarantee GM will have a 100 well paid lawyers working on this.
HMC would be smart writing off the Kona so the problem can go away. It would show their taking it serious. I love the Kona but I'm stupid either. My one plan at one point was to get the Ioniq 5 but cause of my hesitantcy on how HMC. That Is out the window, and I've already ordered a BMW i4. I already have a 335i convertible and a k1600b motorcycle, and I like their quality.

 

[ForceEdge]

So is it safe to say the 2022 Kona has the same battery issues?

 

[Ginginova]

It is also safe to say that Tesla has some of the same battery issues like Kona.

 

[marshall]

It is also safe to say that Tesla has some of the same battery issues like Kona.

No, different battery type.

Interestingly, Elon has now stated that the pouch design will not be used by Tesla. He believes the design is unsafe compared to the cylinder and prismatic design.

 

[Danhen]

So is it safe to say the 2022 Kona has the same battery issues?

As I mentioned above any claim like this is nothing but speculation at this point. Not saying it's impossible, but IMO the title of this thread is very misleading.

Understandably some will attempt to connect any battery issue with a '21 or '22 with the earlier issues. As with any EV on the market, there will be an occasional battery issue just as there is an occasional engine failure on a Lexus.

Perhaps I should start a new thread with a title proclaiming any issues with '22 batteries are unrelated to earlier model years.

What's going on here is you have some owners who are very upset with their experience with the earlier model years and Hyundai not being forthcoming with a resolution. Can't say I blame them. But now they are seeking out problems with '21's and '22's. One has to wonder if they are hoping the problem is more widespread and that this will get them more attention, or if it just makes them feel good to try to trash Hyundai.

Again, I'm not claiming there are no issues with the '21's and 22's. What I am saying is there is nowhere near enough evidence for anyone here to make that claim at this point. We have plenty of '21 owners who have had zero issues with their cars and we are now starting to see the same thing with '22's.

 

[XtsKonaTrooper]

^^^^
I don't really blame them for being a little pissed, especially if they traded in say the defective 2019 and took a major hit on the trade in value. Now , if it turns out that their newer veh has the same issue that's a double whammy.
I was a little choked to find out that my 2019 is prolly worth around 28k but as it stands right now, I will still keep it and utilize the battery warranty if further crap arises. I will most likely be get the upcoming BMW i4, so I should be able to max out the 8yr warranty on the Kona and in turn do the same for i4 battery warranty in the event they have similar issues. Grant it I feel a little more confident on the battery tech in the BMW as they've been at it, a lot longer then HMC.

 

[NS KONA Elec]

So is it safe to say the 2022 Kona has the same battery issues?

No one knows. Some will tell you that there are no known issues with 2021's. I have a battery issue with a 2021 and at least 5 others on the forum have similar problems. So safe to say that there are 2021 Battery bricking issues but they are NOT safety issues.

Some will state that it is speculation. And that is true. It is true because Hyundai won't say that they are different. In fact they don't say ANYTHING, the silence is deafening. It would be so easy for Hyundai to say "Hey, completely different batteries, no known issues. Please be patient while we roll this out", but they don't. Perhaps they don't say anything because there isn't anything to say. They are exactly the same batteries (with minor modifications as time moves on).

Here is what we all should know.
1. In march 2020 Hyundai/LG changed the anode insulation in the battery packs for all Konas. What this means is that any battery pack made after this time (in Korea) has been modified with extra insulation (if Hyundai/LG actually found the root problem). This becomes the cut off date for recalls. The change was instituted to correct the fires.
2. In march/april 2020 Hyundai improved it's BMS to detect issues before they turn into fires. Supposedly these are all rigorous checks that occur during charging and periodically when the vehicle is at rest. If the BMS detects an issue, it disables the vehicle and you tow it to a dealer.
3. All batteries made for the Kona (Korean made) (replacements and new vehicles) come out of the same factory in Korea. LG makes the cells, and HL Greenpower packages into modules and installs them with the latest BMS at that time into the battery pack.
4. All batteries made for the european Kona are made in the Czech Republic. They use SK batteries.

So item number 3 is what we all want to know (some of us are afraid of the answer). If all batteries come out of the same plant, then everything depends upon the date of manufacture for whether you have something that will start a fire (pre March 2020) or if it won't start a fire and will be disabled by it's own BMS.

Danhen insists this isn't the same problem and technically he is correct. If (and make no mistake, this is a billion $ IF that really scares people) hyundai found the root problem in March 2020 (Anode insulation) then a battery build date Pre March 2020 you could have a car-b-q, Post March 2020 all indications are that the BMS shuts down your battery if it detects an issue as was my 2021 case. in the 2021 case, there aren't enough documented issues online to know how prevalent it is. In the 2022 case, there are no documented cases (very few 2022s on the road). Compounding this issue to knowing how many there are is the fact that they are recalls. Recalls are only over safety issues (fires make the news and are easy to count), a BMS that bricks your vehicle is not a safety issue just incredibly inconvienent for the owner who has to wait for months for a replacement (but doesn't make the news, is harder to count and will never result in a safety recall).

Theoretically if there is a problem (not a fire problem, but a battery bricking problem) with the 2021 (then it would have to be in the 2022 as the packs come out of the same factory with perhaps newer BMS). Theoretically that 2021 (battery bricking) problem is a "consequence" of the earlier 2019/2020 battery fire problem, disabling the vehicle with tighter restrictions on the BMS. 2021 battery bricking issues are only recently appearing, it is way too early to see these problems in the 2022 year (they simply haven't been driving around long enough). Older Kona's 2019/2020 are currently getting this replacement batteries which will be the same as what is going into the 2022's (remember, everything comes out of the same factory) but too early for replacement packs to be reporting bricking issues.

You now know more than most and definitely more than most want to admit.

 

[Toolworker]

On the driver's side of the rear end of the vehicle is a bunch of stickers. Take your cell phone with you and take a bunch of shots of the various labels. One will tell you the manufacturing date etc as well as the model etc. If it was made in korea, it will have an "HL Greenpower" sticker. H stands for Hyundai and L stands for LG Chem.

I only see one sticker on the bottom of the battery, just forward of the left rear wheel. It appears to identify the part number and ROM version but not the manufacturer. Is there a sticker I missed, or did Hyundai get sly and remove or hide the LG identification?

​

Presumably your battery will have had all of the updates to the point of manufacture (software/firmware and in March 2020 they added extra insulation on the anodes of each cell), but other than that, it is exactly the same as the previous model years.

So would that insulation make it an an anodyne?

 

[NS KONA Elec]

I only see one sticker on the bottom of the battery, just forward of the left rear wheel. It appears to identify the part number and ROM version but not the manufacturer. Is there a sticker I missed, or did Hyundai get sly and remove or hide the LG identification?

Another poster said something similar. They found a sticker all alone on the "bottom of the battery". When they looked behind the battery (vertical face of the aluminum case directly in front of the driver side rear suspension and hard to get at) they found the other stickers as well that clearly show HL GreenPower.

 

[ForceEdge]

No one knows. Some will tell you that there are no known issues with 2021's. I have a battery issue with a 2021 and at least 5 others on the forum have similar problems. So safe to say that there are 2021 Battery bricking issues but they are NOT safety issues.

Some will state that it is speculation. And that is true. It is true because Hyundai won't say that they are different. In fact they don't say ANYTHING, the silence is deafening. It would be so easy for Hyundai to say "Hey, completely different batteries, no known issues. Please be patient while we roll this out", but they don't. Perhaps they don't say anything because there isn't anything to say. They are exactly the same batteries (with minor modifications as time moves on).

Here is what we all should know.
1. In march 2020 Hyundai/LG changed the anode insulation in the battery packs for all Konas. What this means is that any battery pack made after this time (in Korea) has been modified with extra insulation (if Hyundai/LG actually found the root problem). This becomes the cut off date for recalls. The change was instituted to correct the fires.
2. In march/april 2020 Hyundai improved it's BMS to detect issues before they turn into fires. Supposedly these are all rigorous checks that occur during charging and periodically when the vehicle is at rest. If the BMS detects an issue, it disables the vehicle and you tow it to a dealer.
3. All batteries made for the Kona (Korean made) (replacements and new vehicles) come out of the same factory in Korea. LG makes the cells, and HL Greenpower packages into modules and installs them with the latest BMS at that time into the battery pack.
4. All batteries made for the european Kona are made in the Czech Republic. They use SK batteries.

So item number 3 is what we all want to know (some of us are afraid of the answer). If all batteries come out of the same plant, then everything depends upon the date of manufacture for whether you have something that will start a fire (pre March 2020) or if it won't start a fire and will be disabled by it's own BMS.

Danhen insists this isn't the same problem and technically he is correct. If (and make no mistake, this is a billion $ IF that really scares people) hyundai found the root problem in March 2020 (Anode insulation) then a battery build date Pre March 2020 you could have a car-b-q, Post March 2020 all indications are that the BMS shuts down your battery if it detects an issue as was my 2021 case. in the 2021 case, there aren't enough documented issues online to know how prevalent it is. In the 2022 case, there are no documented cases (very few around). Compounding this issue to knowing how many there are is the fact that they are recalls. Recalls are only over safety issues (fires make the news and are easy to count), a BMS that bricks your vehicle is not a safety issue just incredibly inconvienent for the owner who has to wait for months for a replacement (but doesn't make the news, is harder to count and will never result in a safety recall).

Theoretically if there is a problem (not a fire problem, but a battery bricking problem) with the 2021 (then it would have to be in the 2022 as the packs come out of the same factory with perhaps newer BMS). Theoretically that 2021 (battery bricking) problem is a "consequence" of the earlier 2019/2020 battery fire problem, disabling the vehicle with tighter restrictions on the BMS. 2021 battery bricking issues are only recently appearing, it is way too early to see these problems in the 2022 year (they simply haven't been driving around long enough). Older Kona's 2019/2020 are currently getting this replacement batteries which will be the same as what is going into the 2022's (remember, everything comes out of the same factory) but too early for replacement packs to be reporting bricking issues.

You now know more than most and definitely more than most want to admit.

Wow. Thanks so much for that in depth explanation. Definitely steers me away from the Kona for the time being. Makes me want to check out the Niro. Which I’m pretty sure has the SK batteries right?