Not Ready for Prime Time?

[Gearhead]

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-tesla-model-3-test-review

More issues with Model 3 than production numbers. I think I'll pass on my first opportunity to purchase and wait until the quality and NVH issues are resolved.

 

[WadeTyhon]

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-tesla-model-3-test-review

More issues with Model 3 than production numbers. I think I'll pass on my first opportunity to purchase and wait until the quality and NVH issues are resolved.

It's usually a good idea to wait a while before purchasing any new model or newly refreshed model. I feel sorry for anyone who is stuck with a 2016 Volt considering how reliable the 2015 and 2017 Volts have been. Waiting a year or two is always a safe bet!

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

Someone who choose the screen name "Gearhead", linking to a clearly biased (against EVs) review from Car and Driver magazine, which is of course a gearhead magazine.

To bad there's no "fake news" filter here!

But lots of relevant comments on the article following the Inside EVs news article about this obviously biased hatchet job of a review:

"Car And Driver Posts Tesla Model 3 Instrumented Test"
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[David Green]

Someone who choose the screen name "Gearhead", linking to a clearly biased (against EVs) review from Car and Driver magazine, which is of course a gearhead magazine.

To bad there's no "fake news" filter here!

But lots of relevant comments on the article following the Inside EVs news article about this obviously biased hatchet job of a review:

"Car And Driver Posts Tesla Model 3 Instrumented Test"
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After a test drive in the Model 3, it is far from perfect. I tend to agree with many of C & D's assessments, the drive is great if you drive it normal, but when pushed, the chassis tuning is not great, not nearly as pleasurable as a BMW 335I at the limits. I agree with them on the UI, come on Tesla, when sitting in the uncomfortable back seat I have to ask the driver to turn on adjust my seat warmer? The build is not up to the normal quality for a $56K car (or even $36K car), we all know that. Also the lack of a strong regen braking is so first generation EV, we all want 1 pedal driving now. Alot of Teslas strongest You-Tubers have complained about other things with the Model 3.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

I agree with them on the UI, come on Tesla, when sitting in the uncomfortable back seat I have to ask the driver to turn on adjust my seat warmer?

If you don't like the TM3 then you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but isn't this a bit over the top? Talk about a "first world problem"! Can you name a car in which the rear seat passengers have a control within reach for their rear seat warmers?

I've never been in such a car, because I've never been in a car which had rear seat warmers!
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[David Green]

If you don't like the TM3 then you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but isn't this a bit over the top? Talk about a "first world problem"! Can you name a car in which the rear seat passengers have a control within reach for their rear seat warmers?

I've never been in such a car, because I've never been in a car which had rear seat warmers!
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Haha! Sorry, I am not a Tesla hater or stock shorter, but my opinion is that the people that really love Tesla will accept anything put of Tesla, but the mainstream market is a bit more discerning. There are some decisions the designers made to save money that are not forward looking or convenient. Lacking strong regeneration for 1 pedal driving is huge, and takes aways from the driving fun on an electric car.

I was on the waiting list for both S, and X when they were in development, but when they came out they just did not meet my requirements for quality, and the X just looks "to me" like an overinflated Beetle, with goofy doors. Just my opinion, so not a point of measurement.

As for rear seat heating I do not have to go far to get you information on that. My wife drives a Land Rover Evoque, and it has the controls right on the back of the center counsel, in easy reach of any rear seat passenger. I also drive a Lexus LX, that has the controls in the same area. The Jaguar I-Pace takes this one step further, also having 4 zone climate control in the rear, so not only can the back seat passenger control heated seats, but they can also control the temperature in their quadrant of the vehicle. Sadly even the Chevrolet Bolt/Volt and even the Nissan Leaf have these controls in the back seat area. This was really a cheesy cost cutting mistake for Tesla, as every person likes a different level of heat times on and off.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

There are some decisions the designers made to save money that are not forward looking or convenient. Lacking strong regeneration for 1 pedal driving is huge, and takes aways from the driving fun on an electric car.

I find it odd that some people say that the lack of "one-pedal" driving in Tesla cars is a deficiency. Other people complain about how difficult or fatiguing it is, in some non-Tesla EVs, to have to keep pressing the "go pedal" to coast during one-pedal driving. They far prefer Tesla's setup, which lets you relax while coasting!

Seems to me it's a matter of choice by the car designers, and not "poor design" either way. Perhaps someday, most or all EVs will allow the driver to choose between one-pedal driving, and being able to take your foot off the accelarator while coasting.

However, with some EVs, the driver can set the level (strong vs. weak) of regen, which you can't do in a Tesla car. Perhaps that's one area where Tesla will show improvement with future models.
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[David Green]

I find it odd that some people say that the lack of "one-pedal" driving in Tesla cars is a deficiency. Other people complain about how difficult or fatiguing it is, in some non-Tesla EVs, to have to keep pressing the "go pedal" to coast during one-pedal driving. They far prefer Tesla's setup, which lets you relax while coasting!

Seems to me it's a matter of choice by the car designers, and not "poor design" either way. Perhaps someday, most or all EVs will allow the driver to choose between one-pedal driving, and being able to take your foot off the accelarator while coasting.

However, with some EVs, the driver can set the level (strong vs. weak) of regen, which you can't do in a Tesla car. Perhaps that's one area where Tesla will show improvement with future models.
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I am absolutely with you, the car should give you the choice of regen level. Tesla X and S have a fair amount of regen but cannot regen to a stop, Tesla 3 on the other hand, because of a change in motor design, does not regen nearly as well. When I drove the 3 I was surprised how little regen it offered. This is just one of the many things I felt are compromised on this design.

I think the Tesla lovers are doing the company a disservice by accepting the shortfalls, and trying to make people believe all is well. I think people should be very direct with the company, and accept nothing short of excellence. Trust me, if my I-Pace shows up with functions that do not work as designed, Jaguar will hear from me, as will you folks here.

 

[WadeTyhon]

I find it odd that some people say that the lack of "one-pedal" driving in Tesla cars is a deficiency. Other people complain about how difficult or fatiguing it is, in some non-Tesla EVs, to have to keep pressing the "go pedal" to coast during one-pedal driving. They far prefer Tesla's setup, which lets you relax while coasting!

Seems to me it's a matter of choice by the car designers, and not "poor design" either way. Perhaps someday, most or all EVs will allow the driver to choose between one-pedal driving, and being able to take your foot off the accelarator while coasting.

However, with some EVs, the driver can set the level (strong vs. weak) of regen, which you can't do in a Tesla car. Perhaps that's one area where Tesla will show improvement with future models.
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I think Tesla does have options for strength of regen, correct? Although none of them are true one pedal driving options like on the Leaf or Bolt.

It is not at all necessary to feather the "go pedal"! Unless I'm in bumper to bumper traffic, I use cruise control on my Bolt once I get to speed. Then I just sit back relax my foot next to the brake in case I need to make an emergency stop.

If I need to increase or decrease speed with cruise control on, I do so with the + and - controls on the steering wheel. If I need to slow for a stop sign or traffic light, I pull the trigger/paddle on the back of the steering wheel to engage max regen and disengage cruse control. If I need to stop suddenly, I pull the regen trigger/paddle and hit the brakes.

Once you're used to it, it's hard to go back to the fake "creep" mode.

I am absolutely with you, the car should give you the choice of regen level. Tesla X and S have a fair amount of regen but cannot regen to a stop, Tesla 3 on the other hand, because of a change in motor design, does not regen nearly as well. When I drove the 3 I was surprised how little regen it offered. This is just one of the many things I felt are compromised on this design.

I think the Tesla lovers are doing the company a disservice by accepting the shortfalls, and trying to make people believe all is well. I think people should be very direct with the company, and accept nothing short of excellence. Trust me, if my I-Pace shows up with functions that do not work as designed, Jaguar will hear from me, as will you folks here.

If you follow Tesla owners on forums and such, they do exactly what you are talking about. Tesla Motors Club is filled with discussions about issues, poor service center visits and what have you.

Tesla owners are about the same as any other car owner - they love their car and it is very personal purchase for them... but they absolutely whine and complain when things go wrong!

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

I think Tesla does have options for strength of regen, correct? Although none of them are true one pedal driving options like on the Leaf or Bolt.

Hmmm, you're right. My apologies to everyone for posting a bad meme, saying Tesla cars don't have driver-selectable strength levels for regen. That's wrong.

If I read it right, from comments on the Tesla Motors Club forum in this discussion thread, the Model S has settings for 3 levels of regen, but the Model 3 (at least currently) has only two.

When I drove the 3 I was surprised how little regen it offered. This is just one of the many things I felt are compromised on this design.

Thanks for sharing your experience!
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[Pushmi-Pullyu]

It is not at all necessary to feather the "go pedal"! Unless I'm in bumper to bumper traffic, I use cruise control on my Bolt once I get to speed. Then I just sit back relax my foot next to the brake in case I need to make an emergency stop.

If I need to increase or decrease speed with cruise control on, I do so with the + and - controls on the steering wheel. If I need to slow for a stop sign or traffic light, I pull the trigger/paddle on the back of the steering wheel to engage max regen and disengage cruse control. If I need to stop suddenly, I pull the regen trigger/paddle and hit the brakes.

I hope this doesn't come across as arguing with you, Wade, but perhaps either I didn't fully explain the specific issue I was talking about, or perhaps I don't full understand what you're saying here.

The specific issue is drivers wanting to coast, rather than using regen (regenerative braking), to maximize energy efficiency. (Coasting is more energy efficient than accelerating and then using regen.) I've read some -- in fact, numerous -- complaints about trying to coast in non-Tesla cars, because with the "one-pedal driving" setup, it's hard to hit the exact spot in pressing the "go pedal" when you're just coasting; not accelerating at all, and not engaging regen at all. Or more precisely, some drivers report coasting is hard, while others say all it takes is some practice. Definitely some argument over that.

In fact, I've even read comments (not on this forum) from drivers who shift their car into "N" (Neutral) while driving down the highway so they can coast, despite the fact this is dangerous in any modern car, and any owner's manual will tell you not to do that!

Now, all that is just "book learning" on my part. Sadly, since I can no longer drive, I can't report from personal experience how easy or hard it is to hit that "sweet spot" of coasting when driving an EV set up for full "one-pedal" driving. So I am doubly appreciative when EV drivers describe their own personal experience on this and other EV forums!
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[David Green]

I think Tesla does have options for strength of regen, correct? Although none of them are true one pedal driving options like on the Leaf or Bolt.

It is not at all necessary to feather the "go pedal"! Unless I'm in bumper to bumper traffic, I use cruise control on my Bolt once I get to speed. Then I just sit back relax my foot next to the brake in case I need to make an emergency stop.

If I need to increase or decrease speed with cruise control on, I do so with the + and - controls on the steering wheel. If I need to slow for a stop sign or traffic light, I pull the trigger/paddle on the back of the steering wheel to engage max regen and disengage cruse control. If I need to stop suddenly, I pull the regen trigger/paddle and hit the brakes.

Once you're used to it, it's hard to go back to the fake "creep" mode.



If you follow Tesla owners on forums and such, they do exactly what you are talking about. Tesla Motors Club is filled with discussions about issues, poor service center visits and what have you.

Tesla owners are about the same as any other car owner - they love their car and it is very personal purchase for them... but they absolutely whine and complain when things go wrong!

How do you like your Bolt? I like the Bolt, I have test driven them a couple times, and came away impressed with the drive, and the build quality. It is actually quite well executed, and a fun little car. Unfortunately for me, my wife will be driving the electric on a daily basis in our house, and she would not sign off on the Bolt... She currently drives a Land Rover Evoque, it has taken a lot of fast talking on my part to get her to go for the I-Pace, but she finally is warming up. I keep hoping her car will break down so she stops liking it, but that thing has been solid.

Maybe Tesla will program in more Regen for the Model 3 in the future, but currently it is weak.

 

[David Green]

I hope this doesn't come across as arguing with you, Wade, but perhaps either I didn't fully explain the specific issue I was talking about, or perhaps I don't full understand what you're saying here.

The specific issue is drivers wanting to coast, rather than using regen (regenerative braking), to maximize energy efficiency. (Coasting is more energy efficient than accelerating and then using regen.) I've read some -- in fact, numerous -- complaints about trying to coast in non-Tesla cars, because with the "one-pedal driving" setup, it's hard to hit the exact spot in pressing the "go pedal" when you're just coasting; not accelerating at all, and not engaging regen at all. Or more precisely, some drivers report coasting is hard, while others say all it takes is some practice. Definitely some argument over that.

In fact, I've even read comments (not on this forum) from drivers who shift their car into "N" (Neutral) while driving down the highway so they can coast, despite the fact this is dangerous in any modern car, and any owner's manual will tell you not to do that!

Now, all that is just "book learning" on my part. Sadly, since I can no longer drive, I can't report from personal experience how easy or hard it is to hit that "sweet spot" of coasting when driving an EV set up for full "one-pedal" driving. So I am doubly appreciative when EV drivers describe their own personal experience on this and other EV forums!
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I have heard about coasting rather then regen, but have not driven that way myself. I am not a hypermiler, I am a get there as fast as I can kind of driver. Back when I had my Volt I tried to stretch the miles, and usually stayed at the speed limits, but that car only had 40 miles of range, before you get to the Ice engine. I did not even know about the L setting until I had the car for 6 months. I used that, and in the summer often got over 45 to 50 miles on a charge.

 

[WadeTyhon]

How do you like your Bolt? I like the Bolt, I have test driven them a couple times, and came away impressed with the drive, and the build quality. It is actually quite well executed, and a fun little car. Unfortunately for me, my wife will be driving the electric on a daily basis in our house, and she would not sign off on the Bolt... She currently drives a Land Rover Evoque, it has taken a lot of fast talking on my part to get her to go for the I-Pace, but she finally is warming up. I keep hoping her car will break down so she stops liking it, but that thing has been solid.

Maybe Tesla will program in more Regen for the Model 3 in the future, but currently it is weak.

Ah I understand what you mean now. I did not take your use of the term ‘coasting’ literally since I’ve never really done it in my life. I just interpreted your statement as ‘smooth sailing’ or ‘cruising along.’

Yes, many battery electric cars have at least some level of regen even in their lowest settings. Driving downhill, I imagine that coasting would be an excellent way to conserve energy. But I don’t think coasting is possible in any setting on the Bolt.

 

[WadeTyhon]

How do you like your Bolt? I like the Bolt, I have test driven them a couple times, and came away impressed with the drive, and the build quality. It is actually quite well executed, and a fun little car. Unfortunately for me, my wife will be driving the electric on a daily basis in our house, and she would not sign off on the Bolt... She currently drives a Land Rover Evoque, it has taken a lot of fast talking on my part to get her to go for the I-Pace, but she finally is warming up. I keep hoping her car will break down so she stops liking it, but that thing has been solid.

Maybe Tesla will program in more Regen for the Model 3 in the future, but currently it is weak.

Love the Bolt! It has been an excellent car all around. My wife has loved her 2013 Volt as well but is itching to update. She is hoping she gets a Model 3 invitation by the end of the year.

 

[David Green]

Love the Bolt! It has been an excellent car all around. My wife has loved her 2013 Volt as well but is itching to update. She is hoping she gets a Model 3 invitation by the end of the year.

That is awesome... sounds like you guys have been in Ev's for a while...

 

[David Green]

Ah I understand what you mean now. I did not take your use of the term ‘coasting’ literally since I’ve never really done it in my life. I just interpreted your statement as ‘smooth sailing’ or ‘cruising along.’

Yes, many battery electric cars have at least some level of regen even in their lowest settings. Driving downhill, I imagine that coasting would be an excellent way to conserve energy. But I don’t think coasting is possible in any setting on the Bolt.

Can the Bolt shift to Neutral while driving? I have never tried it, but my Tesla friends say you can extend some range that way going down hill, as long as you do not overspeed.

 

[WadeTyhon]

That is awesome... sounds like you guys have been in Ev's for a while...

Working on 4 years now as far as actual EV ownership goes. But I have been following it for much longer.

As far as using Neutral to coast, I believe the manual says specifically not to do it. But I have never tried so I cannot say for sure.

Another Bolt owner quoted the manual as:

Caution
The vehicle is not designed to
stay in N (Neutral) for extended
periods of time. It will
automatically shift into P (Park)

So unless you’re being towed, I wouldn’t try it.

 

[David Green]

Working on 4 years now as far as actual EV ownership goes. But I have been following it for much longer.

As far as using Neutral to coast, I believe the manual says specifically not to do it. But I have never tried so I cannot say for sure.

Another Bolt owner quoted the manual as:

Caution
The vehicle is not designed to
stay in N (Neutral) for extended
periods of time. It will
automatically shift into P (Park)

So unless you’re being towed, I wouldn’t try it.

That is good to know... I think I-Pace will be the same, but I will find out. I am more of a 1 pedal driver, but my wife may not like that, she has never driven an EV. So there may be a learning curve for her we talked about keeping her car as well, at least until she likes the I-Pace.

 

[Josh Bryant]

I have heard about coasting rather then regen, but have not driven that way myself. I am not a hypermiler, I am a get there as fast as I can kind of driver. Back when I had my Volt I tried to stretch the miles, and usually stayed at the speed limits, but that car only had 40 miles of range, before you get to the Ice engine. I did not even know about the L setting until I had the car for 6 months. I used that, and in the summer often got over 45 to 50 miles on a charge.

Regarding regen level in Bolt vs Model 3, there is an fundamental drivetrain difference in the two vehicles right now. Bolt is FWD; Model 3 is RWD.

In an ICE this doesn’t matter, mechanical brakes do all the stopping with the front brakes shouldering the majority of the load. That is just how the physics work. You would quickly lock your rear wheels if you attempted to heavily brake with rear wheels only.

The limit is likely based on tire grip with the current Model 3, not motor/battery current. This would go away once the dual motor AWD Model 3 is released. There is no guarantee that Tesla will up the regen on that Model, but the capability should be there.