Would you buy this car again?

  • Thread starter Thread starter polyphonic
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 38
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Would you buy this car again?

  • No

    Votes: 4 11.8%

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 79.4%

  • Already did

    Votes: 3 8.8%
  • Total voters
    34
insightman said:
Oh, I was assuming the current tax-creditless deal when I said I'd definitely buy again. Of course, if that's my attitude, it doesn't really matter that I didn't understand you were assuming the cost with the $7,500 tax credit.

I find it interesting that some people who chose the MINI Cooper SE based on price alone were lucky to get such a great car, but after driving this great car they don't like it enough to consider it worth paying more than they did.
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It’s more nuanced than that. And nothing has limitless value no matter how great it is.
My wife wanted the Mini as she wanted a small, 2 door car with great styling. If there had been no rebates I likely would have bought her a base gas Mini as she doesn’t do enough miles for fuel costs to be an issue and she doesn’t care about performance. That would have been $24k but we could get the SE for $20k so it was a no brainer. At $30k with no rebates I probably would have gone with the SE anyway just because I would prefer we went electric but that was because there were no other EV options at that price anyway apart from a Leaf which i refuse to buy due to its battery not liking hot temperatures when we live in Texas…
But now you can get a Chevy Bolt for $27k which has more doors than she wants and in her opinion is ugly, but I would have easily talked her around vs $34k for an SE. $7k more for half the range and less utility plus likely worse residuals for those very reasons. And that’s before we consider any rebates, which would possibly be $2.5k from the State and who knows at the federal level. Even if only half the federal rebate that means the Bolt becomes basically $20.5k. Vs $34k for the Mini. Again, not happening.
I like the Mini, it’s a great car but there is a limit to what I’m prepared to pay for what I’m getting. Fun factor does not equate to a blank check.
I also highly rate our Tesla especially as a road tripping EV, but I paid $53k for it, no rebates. But if I had to pay the same effective price increase as the Mini, it would equate to $90k and despite its efficiency, performance and charging network benefits over its rivals at $55k, I wouldn’t pay it. The price exceeds the value in the market.
 
DJCoopster said:
Some of that is 'luxury bias' where people overlook problems because they feel they bought the *best* there is in a category. Teslas have well documented quality issues, but they are generally overlooked and not discussed online for fear of the fanboi brigade coming at you.

Hair in the paint on some Model Ys, early Model 3s with general hardware brackets from Lowe's/Home Depot holding components, misaligned body/trim, etc.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1128625_tesla-ranks-last-in-initial-quality-build-issues

My neighbor has a Model 3 bought early this year and no issues he has mentioned. I do think the Model 3 is a bit more mature now and the manufacturing process has been improved.

I now have to go into witness protection from the Tesla brigade.
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Tesla’s are arguably the best EVs at the moment if you go outside the range of your home charger with any frequency. That’s not because the cars are better, it’s because the non Tesla charger networks are so unreliable. It’s currently an epidemic of failed chargers.
I would also argue that in this early stage of the shift to EVs the integration of their navigation system with their charging network (in terms of accurate calculations for routing, charging stops and time, preconditioning the battery for fast charging so you actually get the advertised speeds, re-routing based on charger availability etc) makes them the best choice by a very long way for all but the most patient EV geek. Add in their efficiency and real world range vs competitors plus better use of interior space due to intelligent design and they are leaders.

However….

They are not the best cars period. Because nothing in the world is the best period.
There are better built cars. Even EVs specifically.
There are more comfortable cars.
There are quieter cars.
There are faster charging cars (in perfect conditions).
There are better looking cars (subjective I know).
There are cheaper cars.

And if you almost never leave the range of your home charger you can pick any EV you like with no regret. But once you start road tripping and having range anxiety and not knowing where the chargers are, and you find 2 or even 3 out of 4 at the sites don’t work, and your charging speed is way lower than advertised, and so on, you will belatedly realize that until the chargers are two orders of magnitude more reliable and your manufacturer has finally written an accurate in-car navigation and range prediction system you should have bought a Tesla…

I look forward to the day when the chargers are sorted as I would like to have a choice in which EV I buy (really like the idea of an iD Buzz) but until then I’m stuck with the Tesla as it’s our road trip car. But at least there is nothing wrong with mine and I have no regrets about buying it.
 
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DJCoopster said:
Then again, a good portion of our SEs come with the AGS loose and that's been going on for a while now. Mine was loose, built May 17.
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A friend of mine had a Porsche with terrible panel gaps, I had a Land Rover with a leaking windshield, another friend had a new Toyota with fuel pump failure, my wife’s prior Kia was recalled for potential engine fire due to incorrectly hardened piston rings. Friends with BMWs have numerous problems. Anything American is held together with spit and hope.
 
I would buy it again even without the $7500 rebate. But my car is a signature model so the MSRP was only $30K and now they don't sell this trim level.

I do wish Mini made some more changes to the car to have made it better. They could have removed the back seats and easily fitted more batteries to increase the range. They could have offset this extra weight by using an aluminum hood and aluminum or even plastic door panels. I would have loved a carbon fiber roof option. And all of the suspension parts are stamped steel. They could have saved a lot of weight by using aluminum. The engine cradle is also steel. Just so much weight that could be removed which would improve range and the performance of the car.
 
I have found that the Tesla Motor Club is very open to criticism these days. The brand has had mainstream appeal for a while now, so the sycophants are mostly drowned out by regular people. I also largely agree with Andy. Our Model 3 was noisy, too noisy for long drives. Other than that it was a fantastic car, easily one of the best we've owned along with the SE. The integration of car routing and Superchargers was critical to this. It took us all over the country without a single hitch. Driving electric without worry was an amazing thing. Those were the days.. : )

Since then we have owned numerous other premium EVs and ICEVs. The general feeling is, yes they are better built - but far from infallible. I even noticed a panel gap this morning on my brand new SE (!!). The EVs were among the most problematic. Build and materials quality just seemed lower than their loose ICEV counterpoints. I noticed panel and trim gaps, had weather stripping fail, rattles, squeaky creaky buttons, persistent squealing brakes, and myriad electrical gremlins pertaining to tech features (on one car the tailgate would open randomly -- imagine walking outside and seeing your car was wide open all night). Really the worst is the software though. Some of these vehicles will route you to L2 charging over the fast chargers! The systems are prehistortic compared to what is necessary for a seamless EV experience. Fortunately for us we get the excellent BMW iDrive system - and we (almost) never have to road trip.

Oh and the service. BMW has been truly excellent. Tesla (because we got the mobile rangers) also excellent. The others? More like the Tesla horror stories that you hear about (minus using home depot parts, of course!). They just went into 'deny mode' when anything went wrong. If we got loaners it was the entry level of the entry level. Long parts delays for EVs. My general opinion went from "Tesla is futuuuure!" to "Tesla sucks!!" to "It's... complicated.."
 
polyphonic said:
I have found that the Tesla Motor Club is very open to criticism these days.
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How about this criticism. Elon Musk sucks. I won't buy a Tesla because of him. I much rather continue to use a ICE for road trips and an electric car around town where 99% of my drives are under 50 miles.
 
In the 24 months I've owned my SE I've saved over $8000 in fuel costs (yes, after factoring in my electricity costs for charging). I've also spent $2000 in the last couple of months on maintenance for my ICE vehicles, and $0 on my SE. So even without the rebate the SE is a clear winner.

In addition to that, the SE cost is essentially equivalent to the ICE version of the MINI Hardtop, and I was driving MINIs before I got the SE. That means the value proposition of MINI was already something I was comfortable with before the SE even existed.

Finally, there are very few BEVs in the same price range of the SE (in North America), and certainly doubtful many have the handling or even the fit & finish of the SE in the same general price range. MINI is not a budget car model, but it's a lot of value for the price (IMHO).

It's a given at this point that BEVs are not inexpensive vehicles, so one has to commit to the BEV experience knowing the initial cost is going to be higher. If one is sensitive to price something like a Prius may be a better fit.
 
insightman said:
Oh, I was assuming the current tax-creditless deal when I said I'd definitely buy again. Of course, if that's my attitude, it doesn't really matter that I didn't understand you were assuming the cost with the $7,500 tax credit.

I find it interesting that some people who chose the MINI Cooper SE based on price alone were lucky to get such a great car, but after driving this great car they don't like it enough to consider it worth paying more than they did.
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I have the same thoughts here. Interesting to hear of people's different cuttoff points for the "value" of their great experience.
 
CoachCookie said:
I have the same thoughts here. Interesting to hear of people's different cuttoff points for the "value" of their great experience.
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I think 'utility' is an important component of 'value.' With the advent of remote working since the start of the pandemic, I'm only driving about 6000 miles per year. I wouldn't want to pay $40K+ for any car, regardless of how much I enjoyed it.

The SE is the first new car I've bought in over 15 years. It is attractive to me because of size, performance, and styling, and it has certainly met my expectations. But if it were pushing $40K ($35K + taxes and fees, no tax credit), I wouldn't be able to justify it regardless of its appeal.
 
I think @AndysComputer in post #23 sums it up well: not every car is everything for everybody.

I certainly wasn’t looking for 250+ miles of range, nor more doors nor cargo space. I was looking for a fun, small car. I stretched my budget a little to get a L3 trim plus options and accessories, a budget that already took into account our generous federal and provincial subsidies. And I regret nothing.
 
Alf_W said:
I think 'utility' is an important component of 'value.' With the advent of remote working since the start of the pandemic, I'm only driving about 6000 miles per year. I wouldn't want to pay $40K+ for any car, regardless of how much I enjoyed it.

The SE is the first new car I've bought in over 15 years. It is attractive to me because of size, performance, and styling, and it has certainly met my expectations. But if it were pushing $40K ($35K + taxes and fees, no tax credit), I wouldn't be able to justify it regardless of its appeal.
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This won't make sense to many, but I see 'utility' as a concession that works against the fun a car can provide. I would have chosen a smaller, more agile SE without a back seat (R58-style) had it been available. Of course, value is in the eye of the evaluator--in my spreadsheet, the utility factor ranks way below the fun factor, but I realize I'm in the minority.

Today, as I was cranking hard down a winding local country road I wondered how long it will be before the authorities require my car to tattle on me for hooning (I think I scared @Rexsio when I predicted that day). I've never had a car that was more fun--or more expensive--than my SE. I was expecting to pay more and am glad I didn't have to. However, had I paid $40K sight-unseen, I would not have felt disappointed after my first drive in this great car.

I've been driving small sports cars since 1966. I've never driven a Corvette, Ferrari, Lamborghini, McClaren, or Bugatti, but I'm confident none of them would put a bigger smile on my face than my SE. I'm so happy it came into my life (hopefully long) before I can't drive anymore.

These are the good old days for drivers. I'm happy I don't need a Corvette, Ferrari, Lamborghini, McClaren, or Bugatti to have so much fun. I don't know how people have fun in those cars without taking them to the track. My SE is tremendous fun even at the speed limit if the corners are tight enough.
 
JonR said:
How about this criticism. Elon Musk sucks. I won't buy a Tesla because of him. I much rather continue to use a ICE for road trips and an electric car around town where 99% of my drives are under 50 miles.
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Thank you for saying my quiet part out loud. The market will be exploding with EV options in the very foreseeable near- to mid-term, I will never have a reason to directly line Musk’s pockets.
 
I agree with all of the "yes" votes without credits. The car is that good. I made up my mind a while back.
The reason for making this poll was for prospective buyers. When we bought there were one or two video reviews, a tiny bit of forum activity, and definitely no available test drives. The idea of an electrified Mini Cooper just sounded perfect, and it is!

It would probably take a dual-motor JCW to get us out of these current SEs, though that Aceman interior has my attention. :D
 
DJCoopster said:
Very good post, totally agree.
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I really wanted to like the model 3 but I just couldn't. It just felt sooo cheaply made compared to the SE and it was more expensive.
I drove a base model S a few years ago and it felt worth the high asking price (double an SE price). Can't put my finger on why the 2 cars felt so completely different. I don't think it was just about the purchase price. Maybe the S was about making a brand but the 3 is purely about making $$$
In the end the SE quality and design beat the range, occupant space, load space and doors count. No buyers remorse and it's fun when you spot an SE. How many white Tesla's ya seen today?
 
I just got rid of my 2014 Tesla Model S P85D and it was a superb car. I will say that the SE is so much more lithe and fun to drive, but I do miss the gut punch of crazy acceleration from a stop; that never got old.
There are definitely quality alternatives to Tesla nowadays and no one should feel compelled to buy from Elon Musk if they want a great EV. But as an owner of 4 EVs over the last decade, I cannot overstate how much of a game changer the Supercharger network is - it’s still the only reliable and easy way to travel long distances in an EV, and I’d imagine it will be several years before anyone else achieves anything close to parity. If one wants to make an EV their primary car, including for long road trips, Tesla is still the superior option by far. Unfortunately.
 
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