CuriousGeorge
Well-Known Member
Infinitesimal and biased sample, but the current results of the poll don't bode well for MINI's plans to sell the likely even-more-expensive 2014 SE in the US.
Would you buy an SE at current prices without the $7500 credit?
- Thread starter polyphonic
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polyphonic
Well-Known Member
We're probably among the most enthusiastic owners, so I agree it doesn't bode well. I was OK losing my state's $2500 incentive, but also losing the $7500 federal tax credit has me worried. The car goes from being economical to a luxury item. It would be less of an issue for an expensive EV like a Rivian R1T, but for our SE $7500 is 20-25% of the total cost.
@tesrivmini asked is the car a $36-38k driving experience. Well, yes, absolutely! Find me something more fun and comfortable for that money. Something with as much character and excitement. I feel like I'm stepping into Mario Kart when getting behind the wheel. It's like a personal rollercoaster ride.
On the other hand, the car has about 130 mile of range, maybe 100 at 70-75 mph. For those of us without a high density of charger infrastructure (every 50 miles or so), it's a more limited vehicle. That's why I'm not sure I can move forward without incentives.
I think I would say Yes, I been driving my mini of the last month, and probably do not go more than 70% of usage and charge at home, so definitely I Would buy one even if I do not have the $7500 incentive, I think it is an awesome commuter daily driver EV if you do not need more than 80Miles a day. Yes it is not cheap and compared to the newer EVs, but it is a MINI and I am a first mini owner and my wife loves it, This car is a keeper, and I am on the search for another EV probably by 2024, to replace my other gas cars (which we have barely used in a month)
AndysComputer
Well-Known Member
For me it’s about more than the federal tax credit, the entire landscape has changed.
Some people bought a $37k Iconic which with federal credit became $30k. So it could be argued those people would buy a Signature for $30k without a credit as it amounts to the same thing (trim details notwithstanding) in terms of out of pocket.
We bought this tine last summer.
At that point we had the opportunity to convert our second car to an EV, and bonus of bonus it was a Mini which my wife loves. That said, she would have been equally happy with a Fiat 500 electric, or a Beetle electric, neither of which exists as a new vehicle however so the only option was the Mini.
The Signature at $30k was a good deal as the only other options realistically were the Leaf for the same price (which I would never buy due to a lack of battery heat management, especially in Texas), or a Bolt for $33k.
The Bolt has more than double the range and more space including a practically usable back seat. In my view it’s certainly worth $3k more.
My wife thinks the Boot and Leaf are ugly so despite my feeling the Bolt is a vehicle with wider used appeal I probably would have gone with the slightly cheaper but more limited Mini anyway.
At that time the Bolt got no rebate, and the Mini did, so this made it a no brainer anyway, with the Mini then $22.5k. Bargain and very justifiable vs $33k for a Bolt.
But now…
BMW have gotten greedy and increased the base model to $34k. If the Bolt was $33k it would be a harder sell for me to go with the Mini, but I don’t have to make that decision because GM reduced the Bolt to $27k.
Neither gets a federal credit as far as I know.
That means the tables have totally turned and now the Bolt is $7k less. Has more than twice the range and more space.
Even if I balance off the benefits of range and space with the Mini build quality, fun factor and looks, the Bolt is still $7k cheaper.
If BMW had not increased the entry price from $30k to $34k such that it was only $3k more than the Bolt then maybe, just maybe, I could be convinced to go with the Mini, but at $7k more no way.
Frankly with new EVs constantly being released and the Mini being as limited as it is BMW need to be contemplating the start price going down to $27k, not up to $34k.
Yes it’s a nice, fun car and I really like ours, but there comes a point where the question of value has to come into it. It’s now a very expensive and very small and impractical car (as the market goes).
Allowing for the loss of credit and increased base price the Mini has effectively increased in price by $11,500 or 51%. Anyone who thinks this isn’t going to have an impact is kidding themselves.
As for the next generation, if it fixes the range and size issue, such that it is comparable to say a Bolt, what can they charge for it when a Bolt is $27k? Yes, people will pay more for such a Mini vs a Bolt, but how much more? We’re already at $7k (25%) more, before the cost of the larger battery etc. Can they hold the price at $34k or is it going to get worse?
And the larger Clubman style, the most popular in the US, what is that going to cost? The EV market in the $40-55k range has a lot of good cars…
Some people bought a $37k Iconic which with federal credit became $30k. So it could be argued those people would buy a Signature for $30k without a credit as it amounts to the same thing (trim details notwithstanding) in terms of out of pocket.
We bought this tine last summer.
At that point we had the opportunity to convert our second car to an EV, and bonus of bonus it was a Mini which my wife loves. That said, she would have been equally happy with a Fiat 500 electric, or a Beetle electric, neither of which exists as a new vehicle however so the only option was the Mini.
The Signature at $30k was a good deal as the only other options realistically were the Leaf for the same price (which I would never buy due to a lack of battery heat management, especially in Texas), or a Bolt for $33k.
The Bolt has more than double the range and more space including a practically usable back seat. In my view it’s certainly worth $3k more.
My wife thinks the Boot and Leaf are ugly so despite my feeling the Bolt is a vehicle with wider used appeal I probably would have gone with the slightly cheaper but more limited Mini anyway.
At that time the Bolt got no rebate, and the Mini did, so this made it a no brainer anyway, with the Mini then $22.5k. Bargain and very justifiable vs $33k for a Bolt.
But now…
BMW have gotten greedy and increased the base model to $34k. If the Bolt was $33k it would be a harder sell for me to go with the Mini, but I don’t have to make that decision because GM reduced the Bolt to $27k.
Neither gets a federal credit as far as I know.
That means the tables have totally turned and now the Bolt is $7k less. Has more than twice the range and more space.
Even if I balance off the benefits of range and space with the Mini build quality, fun factor and looks, the Bolt is still $7k cheaper.
If BMW had not increased the entry price from $30k to $34k such that it was only $3k more than the Bolt then maybe, just maybe, I could be convinced to go with the Mini, but at $7k more no way.
Frankly with new EVs constantly being released and the Mini being as limited as it is BMW need to be contemplating the start price going down to $27k, not up to $34k.
Yes it’s a nice, fun car and I really like ours, but there comes a point where the question of value has to come into it. It’s now a very expensive and very small and impractical car (as the market goes).
Allowing for the loss of credit and increased base price the Mini has effectively increased in price by $11,500 or 51%. Anyone who thinks this isn’t going to have an impact is kidding themselves.
As for the next generation, if it fixes the range and size issue, such that it is comparable to say a Bolt, what can they charge for it when a Bolt is $27k? Yes, people will pay more for such a Mini vs a Bolt, but how much more? We’re already at $7k (25%) more, before the cost of the larger battery etc. Can they hold the price at $34k or is it going to get worse?
And the larger Clubman style, the most popular in the US, what is that going to cost? The EV market in the $40-55k range has a lot of good cars…
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teslarati97
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty frustrated with the Tesla Model X base price hikes as well. It was $104,990 in 2021 and now it's $120,990 for the 2022 base model. The price of the 2021 Model X plaid was $119,990!
AndysComputer
Well-Known Member
I would say I’m frustrated by all Tesla price hikes as I want more mass market appeal for the likes of the 3 and Y, however their prices do not seem to be putting people off. That said, I guess they can get away with it when they are the clear EV leader, especially given the ease of use and reliability of their charging network which is worth its weight in gold. Certainly there are plenty of similarly sized EVs for less money (even before you consider rebates) but they’re just not selling like Tesla’s are despite a large price advantage. Maybe the public is more clued up to the charging situation than I give them credit for…
Hatch
Active Member
I agree. Its looking like the SE will turn out to be even more of a rare and collectible car than it has been up until now. I really glad i'm getting one.
Rexsio
Well-Known Member
How an SE or any EV could be collectible as battery expire 10 years later a car is chicken coop or as bmw i 3 battery is $16000 for 2014 model 60 Ah that’s why I sold I 3 and switch to SE for another 10 years .All those after market batteries are usually garbage they not last long as for drills or vacuum cleaners etc. At least I 3 was build from carbon fiber body bmw was saying can last 40 years but a price was $45000 for base model. They stop build a car in July 2022 was to expensive to build .I’m assuming all EV build today will be absolute 10 years later like I phone TVs or computers.
Are there unsold low-priced, non-Tesla EVs piling up in Texan dealer lots?
It will be interesting to see if the supply of EVs quickly catches up with demand after the federal EV tax credit evaporates later this week when Joe applies pen to paper.
azausa
Active Member
Yes, though this is a US based poll, I would like to chime in my humble opinion. And though NZ does not have any plans yet to stop our EV rebates. I have always driven big cars, wagons & SUVs; the louder and more grunt they have, the better. When our Subaru Legacy conked out, we went out on the lookout for a new car and I had only 2 requirements; i.e. it should be an EV and it should be European made, then I asked my wife to look for what she wants as long as my requirements are made, she wanted a Beetle and a Mini, in that order of preference. Of course, there is no EV Beetle and the Beetle was last produced in 2019; so we found the Mini SE, and I was skeptical bec of the size, it was too small for me and the battery range is the lowest in the NZ market and yet the Mini SE is not the cheapest in the NZ market, the MG ZS is the cheapest EV in NZ. During the test drive I was impressed with the handling and the torque, so we ordered the Mini EV bec my wife wanted a Mini and it meets my 2 requirements, and we got the top trim bec I always do.
Now after 11 months, I am a convert to the Mini and very passionate about it! The small space anxiety is gone, I even love small cars now! And the range anxiety is definitely gone, NZ does not have the best charging infrastructure, but we have taken the Mini SE on road trips already.
So, yes I will buy the Mini SE at the current price even without the rebate. The rebate is a bonus.
Now after 11 months, I am a convert to the Mini and very passionate about it! The small space anxiety is gone, I even love small cars now! And the range anxiety is definitely gone, NZ does not have the best charging infrastructure, but we have taken the Mini SE on road trips already.
So, yes I will buy the Mini SE at the current price even without the rebate. The rebate is a bonus.
Puppethead
Well-Known Member
I happen to be riding around in a couple of different vehicles this week (Subaru, Honda) and the interior build quality is nowhere on the level of the SE. Everything in the interior of the cars feels much lower quality than what MINI does.
GetOffYourGas
Well-Known Member
Probably, but not sure. I’d definitely get the same trim (Sig+) though - the moon roof was a must!
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Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
JonR
Well-Known Member
Are you seriously in the market for a Tesla? I definitely wouldn't buy one.
AndysComputer
Well-Known Member
No, I’ve owned one for nearly a year now, I got mine when they were $14k cheaper than they are now. I’m simply frustrated as we need prices to come down on EV’s, not go up.
I think the Y is a tough sell at about $10k more than similarly sized/ranged competition, however, their wait list is far, far beyond that if their competitors so either people want the Tesla name, or, like me, they want the charging network and slick stress free software that is so important for road tripping.
AndysComputer
Well-Known Member
I’m not Elon’s biggest fan so I can understand that.
However I disagree that a short range EV + a gas car is a “better” option. It’s a very good option, especially the way to go for someone’s first EV in the household. But if you can afford to replace the long distance gas car with a Tesla then frankly there’s no real downside when making road trips. I’ve done 800 miles in a day in our Long Range Y, I’ve covered over 5,000 miles across 10 states in the south west with no issue at all (and saved $700 in fuel doing so). In my experience a 9.5 hour door to door trip in a gas car is 10 hours in the Tesla and hardly noticeable. I know this as I took the same trip the year prior in a gas car and have a GPS log of that so I can directly compare.
But… I would not feel comfortable making such a trip in a non Tesla. Not because of any real problem with the cars, although it would take a lot more planning as their Nav systems are not as good, it’s more the reliability of the public chargers they rely on.
Hatch
Active Member
Tesla is selling the most EV's because they have the most capacity by a long shot. Waiting lists for cars like VW ID4, Ioniq5, Kia Ev6 and trucks like F150 Lightning, Rivian are WAY longer than Tesla. A lot of people won't even be dreaming about getting their non-Tesla vehicles until 2024 and beyond.
The Bolt is an exception for some reason. And maybe you can a Polestar or Volvo. But otherwise, the numbers just aren't there for mainstream EV's. Big Auto still doesn't get it. Startup auto makers can't come close. They all talk big, but they just aren't being realistic about capacity, especially batteries.
Tesla is the undisputed leader in public charging. I say they are the hands down leader in tech also. But the build quality just isn't up to the others. And Tesla doesn't care, because they will sell every one they make, for years to come. I waited 6 months for a Model Y. When i finally saw mine in person after all that time, i just couldn't pull the trigger. Misaligned hood, condensation in the taillights, and sounded like a helicopter landing while it was charging. I was devastated.
However i lucked into an Ioniq5 shortly after, while they were still a relative secret among the general public. Try getting one now. Comparing it to the Tesla, i feel i dodged a bullet. I can't say enough good things about it. I feel the MINI will be the same, in different ways. But if my most important requirements were high tech and road tripping, the Tesla would still be the best choice. There still is no perfect EV.
If the Chinese ever find a way to get their cars into this country, it will probably be game over for most others except Tesla.
The Bolt is an exception for some reason. And maybe you can a Polestar or Volvo. But otherwise, the numbers just aren't there for mainstream EV's. Big Auto still doesn't get it. Startup auto makers can't come close. They all talk big, but they just aren't being realistic about capacity, especially batteries.
Tesla is the undisputed leader in public charging. I say they are the hands down leader in tech also. But the build quality just isn't up to the others. And Tesla doesn't care, because they will sell every one they make, for years to come. I waited 6 months for a Model Y. When i finally saw mine in person after all that time, i just couldn't pull the trigger. Misaligned hood, condensation in the taillights, and sounded like a helicopter landing while it was charging. I was devastated.
However i lucked into an Ioniq5 shortly after, while they were still a relative secret among the general public. Try getting one now. Comparing it to the Tesla, i feel i dodged a bullet. I can't say enough good things about it. I feel the MINI will be the same, in different ways. But if my most important requirements were high tech and road tripping, the Tesla would still be the best choice. There still is no perfect EV.
If the Chinese ever find a way to get their cars into this country, it will probably be game over for most others except Tesla.
Rexsio
Well-Known Member
Is a last EV for that kind of money on USA market buy it as fast as you can
Hatch
Active Member
It looks like those of us who say we would buy without the tax credit are getting the chance to prove it.
https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...ality-for-tax-credit.14490/page-8#post-180163
https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...ality-for-tax-credit.14490/page-8#post-180163