Would like to get an EV, but which one?

W

WilliamJones

New Member
I should be ready in the next 12 months or so, for a new vehicle, either an EV or a PHEV. I like the idea of something like the Hyundai Ioniq, but the 30 mile EV range is a bit short. In fact, if there were a PHEV like the Ioniq with 50-60 mile EV range it would be ideal for me. Pricing would have to be reasonable also. Is there such a vehicle?

On a somewhat related subject, it seems to me that most of the EV cars these days are high end and high priced. Anybody have a feel for when the more budget-priced EV cars will be introduced?
 
How much range do you need?
If 100 to 120 miles is sufficient, you can get 2017 BMW i3's for under $17k in the US. You can get 238 mile range Chevy Bolts for under $19k or 2018 Leaf's with 150 mile range for under $18k..
 
WilliamJones said:
In fact, if there were a PHEV like the Ioniq with 50-60 mile EV range it would be ideal for me. Pricing would have to be reasonable also. Is there such a vehicle?
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You might look for an end-of-lease, subcompact, 4-seat, BMW i3-REx:
  • EV 72 miles - excellent EV efficiency, 29 kWh/100 mi
  • Gas 78 miles - sustains 70 mph at 39 MPG, 2 gallon fuel tank, premium/plus (89 octane)
  • ~$20-25k - end of lease, avoid the first model year
There is also a pure EV version, BMW i3, but use PlugShare to look at likely routes to make sure there are CCS, fast DC chargers along the way. IMHO, cross country, CCS electric charging into the 50 kW limited BMW i3 makes it an expensive trip. Our BMW i3-REx is 4x on electric charges, $24, compared to gas, $6, between Huntsville AL and Nashville TN.

The BMW i3-REx was our gateway to the Tesla Model 3. We tried the 25 mile, Toyota Prius Prime, but found it unsatisfying. The EV range was too short, a 3-stop car, in Huntsville before needing a charge. The BMW i3-REx was a 10-stop car before needing a charge. We traded it in on a Std Rng Plus Model 3 which was half the EV cost per mile compared to Prius Prime.

Bob Wilson
 
Hyundai Ionic 2020 has a full EV version with 170 mile range. At $33,000 - $7,500 tax credit it will be one or the lower priced options out there. Assuming you can take advantage of the tax credit a number of the newer models that still qualify can get your list price under $30k. The Kia Niro and Soul, and base Hyundai Kona EV should be able to get you in that range with rebate and have a lot longer range. New Chevy Bolts tax credit was down to only $1,875, so not sure those can get down to under $30k. I think the lowest range Nissan Leaf does come in under that.
 
bwilson4web said:
You might look for an end-of-lease, subcompact, 4-seat, BMW i3-REx:
  • EV 72 miles - excellent EV efficiency, 29 kWh/100 mi
  • Gas 78 miles - sustains 70 mph at 39 MPG, 2 gallon fuel tank, premium/plus (89 octane)
  • ~$20-25k - end of lease, avoid the first model year
There is also a pure EV version, BMW i3, but use PlugShare to look at likely routes to make sure there are CCS, fast DC chargers along the way. IMHO, cross country, CCS electric charging into the 50 kW limited BMW i3 makes it an expensive trip. Our BMW i3-REx is 4x on electric charges, $24, compared to gas, $6, between Huntsville AL and Nashville TN.

The BMW i3-REx was our gateway to the Tesla Model 3. We tried the 25 mile, Toyota Prius Prime, but found it unsatisfying. The EV range was too short, a 3-stop car, in Huntsville before needing a charge. The BMW i3-REx was a 10-stop car before needing a charge. We traded it in on a Std Rng Plus Model 3 which was half the EV cost per mile compared to Prius Prime.

Bob Wilson
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You can get End of Lease 2017 i3 Rex for under $18k.. I got our 2017 i3 BEV with 22k miles and clean carfax for $16999 and the same dealer had a 2017 i3 REX with 33k miles for $17999.. They also have one with 14k miles for $18999.. Used i3's are an incredible value considering that this car started at $45k new and about $50k for the REX..
For example, here is one with 34k miles and clean carfax for $17999.. And that's the 2017 with the 94ah battery and the slightly bigger tank.. Can get over 200 mile total range with a light foot..

https://www.offleaseonly.com/used-car/bmw-i3-deka-hybrid-hatchback-rwd-wby1z8c39hv890896.htm

I almost bought that one but we ended up deciding for the BEV as I didn't want the maintenance on the ICE engine (oil changes etc) in the REX and the BEV had enough range for my wife's needs..
 
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Regarding range, consider that the battery will be happiest and last longest if you generally operate within 20% to 80% state-of-charge. So I’d look for a vehicle that has a range of at least 1.6x your expected typical between-charge driving distance.

Also, as a side note, a basic level 1 EVSE will provide about 4 miles of distance per hour of charging, so if your distances aren’t long, you may not need to spend the extra $$ installing a level 2 EVSE at home.

I have a Kona and love it.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
 
Gsbrryprk8 said:
Regarding range, consider that the battery will be happiest and last longest if you generally operate within 20% to 80% state-of-charge. So I’d look for a vehicle that has a range of at least 1.6x your expected typical between-charge driving distance.

Also, as a side note, a basic level 1 EVSE will provide about 4 miles of distance per hour of charging, so if your distances aren’t long, you may not need to spend the extra $$ installing a level 2 EVSE at home.

I have a Kona and love it.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
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Kona is the best option... That's what I drive too. If someone is looking for a car to keep a long time, the 2019 Kona Electric is the best choice IN THE USA as it has a LIFETIME WARRANTY (for the original owner) on the most expensive part of the car.. The Battery.. I personally chose the Kona over the Model 3 due to that warranty. There are still some NEW 2019 Kona's available..
Best of all, the range is way underrated.. In 28500 miles driven, my average mi/kwh is 4.8.. meaning 307 mile range on a charge and the car is only rated 258 miles.
 
Since price is an issue for you, a used EV makes the most sense considering that technology and battery chemistry continues to improve. A used 2017/2018 BMW i3 Rex, 2018/2019 Nissan Leaf SV, or a 2018/2019 Chevy Bolt would be the three cars I would check out.

If Tesla's battery day hype turns out to be ground breaking news, the price of used EVs should go even lower.
 
just posted the same in a similar thread.. also applies to this one..
We did our first a little longer trip with the i3.. Me, my wife and our 2 kids in the i3. We drove is mostly on the highway with the AC on at 70 mph, sometimes 75 but sometimes also 65. It was 56 miles each way from my home in Lakeland to Millenia Mall and Costco in Orlando. I did charge on a 6kw charger for 1 hour and 10 mins at Milllenia mall, adding 27 miles of range. We arrived back home with 41 miles remaing range, so we could have made it even without recharging in Orlando but it would have been close. So, the rated range seems to be very conservative. Around town, it's likely closer to 140 mile range.
So, if you drive 100 miles or less in a day, the i3 seems to be an excellent choice, especially as they can be bought for a very reasonable price used..
 
Thanks for all the responses. I have been reading several articles, and I originally thought I would like a PHEV, but the more I think about this, I am inclined to buy an EV. I see a very reasonable i3 at Offleaseonly in Orlando that I might go look at.
One question that comes to my mind: The EV types are very reasonably priced if you buy a used one. For example, the i3 is about $40k new and about $15k used. If I buy the 2016 i3 at about $15k, what will be the trade in value after a few years/
 
WilliamJones said:
For example, the i3 is about $40k new and about $15k used. If I buy the 2016 i3 at about $15k, what will be the trade in value after a few years/
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1. I would try to get the price closer to the trade in value. I wouldn't pay more than $13,000 for the car. Go to CarGurus: https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/instantMarketValue.action

2. Don't expect the car to be worth much in few years due to battery technology improvements. If you have a future teenage driver coming up in few years, then the car may be a good hand down vehicle. See the value of old Nissan Leafs to get an idea.
 
WilliamJones said:
Thanks for all the responses. I have been reading several articles, and I originally thought I would like a PHEV, but the more I think about this, I am inclined to buy an EV. I see a very reasonable i3 at Offleaseonly in Orlando that I might go look at.
One question that comes to my mind: The EV types are very reasonably priced if you buy a used one. For example, the i3 is about $40k new and about $15k used. If I buy the 2016 i3 at about $15k, what will be the trade in value after a few years/
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I bought mine at offleaseonly. You have to check the carfax which offleaseonly provides. Many of their cars had accidents.. The one that I got was accident free.. They actually brought it for me from Miami to the Orlando location for free.. I would recommend going with the 94 ah 2017 i3 over the 60 ah 2016.. The 2017 gets 50% more range for $3k more... I don't know about the i3's trade in value but it can't be too bad as the car has already lost like 70% of it's original value..
If you are happy with around 80 mile range, the Chevy Spark may be a great option.. You can get them for about $7k, sometimes less and it's a very reliable EV. Can't beat the value..

Here is one similar to mine for $16499.. It has the higher capacity battery and longer range.
https://www.offleaseonly.com/used-car/bmw-i3-deka-electric-hatchback-rwd-wby1z6c38hv548408.htm
 
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If you're considering a full EV rather than a PHEV, definitely think about a Hyundai Kona. If price is a concern (it was for me), the entry-level SEL model is nicely equipped, with heated front seats and lots of safety tech, for about $40K. The only drawback is, at least in California as of early March when I leased mine, the cars were in pretty short supply and dealers wouldn't budge a millimeter on the price. Being a comparatively new model I don't know if there are any used ones out there at more affordable prices, but it's probably worth looking. FYI, in my experience so far, the official EPA range of 258 miles is conservative if you don't have a lead foot and don't have the HVAC cranking a lot. My range meter consistently is showing figures that translate to 275-280 miles on a full charge, sometimes even a bit over 280.
 
This might be a bit off topic, but my first interest in an electric car goes back about 40 years. We lived near Sacramento and I went to an enthusiast club meeting that dealt with making your own electric car. They were selling plans and several people had gotten the plans and made their own electric cars. The plans showed how you could take a VW beetle, remove the gas tank and engine, and install an electric airplane starter motor, then add a bank of 12 volt batteries under the back seat. With some fine tuning, you had an electric vehicle. I have wanted one ever since.
 
Bruce M. said:
If you're considering a full EV rather than a PHEV, definitely think about a Hyundai Kona. If price is a concern (it was for me), the entry-level SEL model is nicely equipped, with heated front seats and lots of safety tech, for about $40K. The only drawback is, at least in California as of early March when I leased mine, the cars were in pretty short supply and dealers wouldn't budge a millimeter on the price. Being a comparatively new model I don't know if there are any used ones out there at more affordable prices, but it's probably worth looking. FYI, in my experience so far, the official EPA range of 258 miles is conservative if you don't have a lead foot and don't have the HVAC cranking a lot. My range meter consistently is showing figures that translate to 275-280 miles on a full charge, sometimes even a bit over 280.
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Let's not forget that the Kona still qualifies for the full tax credit. I paid $36100 for my new SEL and after $7500 federal tax credit, that came out to $28600. However, sales tax had to be paid on $36100, not $28600....
 
WilliamJones said:
This might be a bit off topic, but my first interest in an electric car goes back about 40 years. We lived near Sacramento and I went to an enthusiast club meeting that dealt with making your own electric car. They were selling plans and several people had gotten the plans and made their own electric cars. The plans showed how you could take a VW beetle, remove the gas tank and engine, and install an electric airplane starter motor, then add a bank of 12 volt batteries under the back seat. With some fine tuning, you had an electric vehicle. I have wanted one ever since.
Click to expand...
I believe that the original Chevrolet EV1 worked on that concept (multiple 12 volt car batteries) and it got decent range with it..
 
WilliamJones said:
Thanks for all the responses. I have been reading several articles, and I originally thought I would like a PHEV, but the more I think about this, I am inclined to buy an EV. I see a very reasonable i3 at Offleaseonly in Orlando that I might go look at.
One question that comes to my mind: The EV types are very reasonably priced if you buy a used one. For example, the i3 is about $40k new and about $15k used. If I buy the 2016 i3 at about $15k, what will be the trade in value after a few years/
Click to expand...

Demand seems to be pretty good for used EVs, so I don't think its value will fall off a cliff, or anything. Though, longer-range EVs hold value better than short-range (<100 miles) ones.

EVs seem to have a lot of depreciation, but I think a lot of that was due to incentives. Take a $40,000 car. In states like California or Colorado, federal and state incentives would bring the price to $30,000 or lower. That's great for buyers, but when you sell, depreciation starts at that low, after-incentive price.

If you're interested in the BMW i3, don't forget that they got a bigger battery in 2017. Older ones have a 60 Ah battery good for 81 miles, while the 2017 got upgraded to 94 Ah and is rated for 114 miles. Although they're a lot more expensive, the 2019 has a 120 Ah battery rated for 153 miles of range.

I'd look around online at Cars.com or Cargurus. Try to find a good low-mileage one too. This one, for instance, looks pretty good. A 2017 with 94 Ah battery and 16,063 miles for $18,499.
 
I think I have narrowed my search down to two choices. It is based on range (>70), price (<$16k), mileage (<40k).
I would use the car to run errands and would not drive more than 50-60 miles each trip. For longer trips I have a new Rav4.

1) 2016 Nissan Leaf SL, about $14k, range = 107 miles
2) 2015 BMW i3 Rex, about $15k, range = 70 miles

I like the idea of the range extender, but that also adds maintenance costs for the ICE. I probably would rarely, if ever, need it. Just nice insurance.
I think I read somewhere that the Leaf had issues with the battery getting hot. I live in Central FL, so is always hot and I would probably never use a heater.
 
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