Why Public Chargers Fail.

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marshall

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Qmert white paper states: Public EV charging is now an issue of both quantity and quality. New, heretofore unreleased, national data from EV Connect finds that the common reasons for unsuccessful EV charging sessions are due to station connectivity (55%) and internal station faults/errors (38%), as well as the connector/cable (4%), credit card reader (1%) and screen (1%)*

https://qmerit.com/electrification-2030/
 
It seems like whatever the type of malfunction, the answer ultimately is for the station operator to regularly check their equipment and fix any issues promptly. And it shouldn't need to be said that this is triply important in spots where stations are still sparse and folks may not make it to the next working one if your station is broken.
 
EVgo hasn't upgraded any of the 50 kW chargers around here. One of them has two chargers out of three broken for months now. No repair date in sight. On top of that, Tesla has three new locations in the permit process locally.

I wonder with the high interest rates and the banks getting tougher with loans, if they are going to get the money to do what they propose. My guess is that they will put their efforts in getting the federal money.

Time is running out for EVgo and EA. When folks can charge at a Tesla location and have a good experience, they will just wind up passing the others.
 
marshall said:
EVgo hasn't upgraded any of the 50 kW chargers around here. One of them has two chargers out of three broken for months now. No repair date in sight. On top of that, Tesla has three new locations in the permit process locally.

I wonder with the high interest rates and the banks getting tougher with loans, if they are going to get the money to do what they propose. My guess is that they will put their efforts in getting the federal money.

Time is running out for EVgo and EA. When folks can charge at a Tesla location and have a good experience, they will just wind up passing the others.
Click to expand...

And then when all the others go out of business, Tesla will charge predatory pricing (all monopolies do). This is not good for the consumer.

On the other hand, I’ve tried Tesla’s MagicDock. It is ok, but EA (and to a lesser extent EVgo) are a better experience and are cheaper to boot! So maybe they still have a future too.


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I've seen a few ChargePoint DCFC chargers pop up around town, and they seem a nicer design than other brands. Not sure if they're any more reliable, though, although I'm generally satisfied with their Level 2 chargers.

iu
 
GetOffYourGas said:
On the other hand, I’ve tried Tesla’s MagicDock. It is ok, but EA (and to a lesser extent EVgo) are a better experience and are cheaper to boot! So maybe they still have a future too.
Click to expand...
EVgo has gone to variable pricing and now the more expensive of the three here in Washington state. EVgo prices between midnight and 6am are outrageous. I don't know what EVgo is thinking.

Tesla is also going variable pricing. However, their midnight to 6am prices are a screaming bargain.
 
marshall said:
Tesla is also going variable pricing. However, their midnight to 6am prices are a screaming bargain.
Click to expand...
In Canada the per kWh prices have increased with the exception of B.C where the prices have actually lowered.
"The new V3 station in Nanaimo (Island Hwy) that dropped from $0.47 to $0.35 per kWh. The Victoria Supercharger, also on Vancouver Island, dropped from $0.29 to $0.22. On the mainland the cheapest Supercharger in the country in Delta has stayed the same at just $0.10 per kWh, even cheaper than plugging in at home.
Once you start heading east of BC however, it is a different story. In Alberta all stations have seen their prices go up, from $0.48 to $0.59 or $0.60 per kWh, a 25% jump. The same is true for the rest of the central provinces, with the standard rate at most increasing to $0.59/kWh."
You really have to check ahead first to compare what is fair and what is not:confused:
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-increases-supercharger-prices-in-canada-by-as-much-as-25/
 
GetOffYourGas said:
And then when all the others go out of business, Tesla will charge predatory pricing (all monopolies do). This is not good for the consumer.
Click to expand...

This is an example of high emotional index language attempting to create a negative response towards something.

So do they now? All of them? What happened to the cost of rail freight when Carnegie bought up all the railroads? How much did it go up , er , change year over year over the 20 year period prior to and after having a 'monopoly'? Just curious.
 
Tesla currently has over twice as many DCFC plugs in the US as all the rest of the players combined. Chargepoint has the most plugs of any kind, but the vast majority are L2. Opening this up for all the EV's would make point to point long distance traveling much easier.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/advice/ev-charging-stations

The problem with DCFC is the cost of the equipment is still very high, but more and more commodity DCFC equipment is becoming available, that is more and more reliable. The communication standards pioneered by Chargepoint coupled with commodity equipment is going to make it easier to compete, in particular at the 50-100KW level. Grizzle-E is now selling a 50KW DCFC under $15K that speaks OCPP (Open Charge Point Protocol). If Tesla were to get silly and start charging $1.00/KWH and your options are charge in 15 minutes for $30 at Tesla, or go across the street to the coffee shop, relax for 45 minutes for $15 I think the coffee shop would likely get kind of busy and sell a lot of croissants, in addition to making a buck on the charging.

The biggest problem with reliability is they stick two or three stations out on the fringe of some parking lot where there is no attendant that ever walks by. People abuse the equipment because they are stupid, and it never gets fixed, because nobody notices, or inspects it. I have noticed these folks putting stations in grocery store lots. To me, this makes a lot of sense, a grocery run might be 30 minutes or so but you have to actually have someone inspecting the posts weekly, and if they want it to be reliable, they need to stop putting an LCD screen in direct sunlight. These same issues occur at gas pumps, this is not like a new concept or anything.

I think NACS will help as well, because the CCS plug is just plain goofy. It is so awkward it makes me nervous I'm going to crack some plastic every time I plug in. Many of the CCS connectors I've used seem a little tired, and frankly they cannot be that old. I have no idea how long an average gas pump handle lasts, but I would guess they get periodically replaced as a general maintenance measure.
 
A newly installed, 65 kW ChargePoint, fast DC charger showed the connector and cable were nearly twice the diameter and weighed much more than a local, 250 kW SuperCharger cable and connector.

The CCS plugs, both J1772 and CCS-1, have a moving part, a locking latch that operates a switch controlling a resistor. When broken from either dropping or customer abuse, the plug becomes unusable. Sometimes there are obscure workarounds. In contrast, the Tesla plug has no moving parts as the car handles locking. The Tesla owner's manual describes the simple, manual override to remove the plug.

Today's CCS units have a parallel, weather exposed, mechanism to handle payment with a data link to the credit card or account processing center. In contrast, SuperChargers electronically read the VIN and handle charging to a previously recorded credit card.

Fewer parts leads to a more reliable charger.

Bob Wilson
 
bwilson4web said:
In contrast, SuperChargers electronically read the VIN and handle charging to a previously recorded credit card.
Click to expand...
It's one thing for Tesla to maintain a database of VINs for the cars they built, but it becomes a bigger privacy issue to add every VIN for every car manufacturer into a database, especially operated by a private company. There has been evidence of VINs being disabled with little recourse for the car owner. Not to mention what happens if the "card on file" isn't authorizing for any number of reasons.

At least with a payment terminal option theoretically it's more likely one can initiate a charging session, even if not as convenient.
 
Puppethead said:
privacy issue to add every VIN for every car manufacturer into a database,
Click to expand...
The driver/owner would have to volunteer the information along with their credit card. But I'd never considered the VIN to be a privacy problem compared to credit cards. No problem, just don't use Tesla SuperChargers and the problem is solved.

Bob Wilson
 
How is a prediction of consolidation leading to monopolistic pricing any more negative-response-
inducing than shitposting how people are stupid, CCS sucks, and trying to understand the side-effects
of one's decisions is useless? Keith, I think *you* might be in need of that stroll outdoors.

_H*
 
Keith Smith said:
This is an example of high emotional index language attempting to create a negative response towards something.

So do they now? All of them? What happened to the cost of rail freight when Carnegie bought up all the railroads? How much did it go up , er , change year over year over the 20 year period prior to and after having a 'monopoly'? Just curious.
Click to expand...

Google "Robber Baron" to find out what happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist)

Bruce M. said:
It seems like whatever the type of malfunction, the answer ultimately is for the station operator to regularly check their equipment and fix any issues promptly. And it shouldn't need to be said that this is triply important in spots where stations are still sparse and folks may not make it to the next working one if your station is broken.
Click to expand...

With some parts of the charger, they can get remote notifications that something might have faulted. But a broken latching clip probably wouldn't result in a fault that would be remotely reported. I suspect some of the early chargers weren't able to do very good remote diagnostics.

The white paper is really worth a read - especially the 'A' section that deals with increasing reliability.
 
See Kyle Conner's recent dump about them. He likes them. They're supposedly working on
deploying less fragile plug latches, and someday they might upgrade those failing touchscreens.

_H*
 
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