Why is no one challenging the Clarity?

C

Chris Messer

Member
I have had mine for about 2 years now , and find it to be a great vehicle. I do wish it had a little more range on EV , because I get agitated when the motor kicks in when I have only 5km left to go in the winter.

I am still not quite sure to go full on BEV , because I hate stopping for extended periods on road trips.

I just can't believe no one else is trying to compete in this niche. Sure, there are other PHEV out there , but nothing is competing with EV range. Most people I've spoken to with BMW or even my wife with her Outlander PHEV , find it to be a gimmick. I believe this is due to the 20-30km ranges that are not allowing people to experience driving full on EV consistently.

The only one that has come close as of late is the Toyota RAV4 , but falls 15 km short of the Clarity.

Honda isn't even trying to beat their own numbers, re-releasing the same car year over year.

Is PHEV already a dying breed? I will never go back to full on gas , I just hope in 2 years when my lease is up that there's something with more range or I am ready to go full BEV.
 
More range requires more batteries which requires more space and giving up something taking up space in the car. The most common approach to fit more batteries is to get rid of the ICE, fuel tank. exhaust system and other associated components. Adding batteries also increases cost
There is also the diminishing return of increased range - the more EV range you have, the less often you will use the ICE at all. At some point it no longer makes sense to haul it around. Peoples needs (perceived or real) and driving habits will vary, but if you want long EV range with a gas backup, the i3 REx has 126 miles of EV range. The trade off is it has a small generator and small gas tank and only 200 miles total range.
 
I'm fine with my range as is during moderate temps but Northeast winters also leave me wanting 5 more miles...

I came from a Fit EV and formerly could make it to work 1 way before full charge for way home but now use some gas. But nice being able to drive to the mountains for skiing instead of taking my truck!
 
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Chris Messer said:
I do wish it had a little more range on EV , because I get agitated when the motor kicks in when I have only 5km left to go in the winter.
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I use the engine when it's cold to generate heat, knowing the range and where I'm going. Would be nice if the car could use the GPS to plan the most efficient mix (given that I have heat on)


The range is mostly driven by two things: The market demand for range (~50 miles is too long for most, too short for others) and the tax credit. The credit is based on battery size (the Rav4 Prime has a larger battery, but less range as it's not as efficient). Once they get to the full $7,500 (at about 16kwn), most companies have little incentive to add capacity (and range). There's also packaging and supply considerations.

For example, the Audi Q5 PHEV battery is 14.1kwh and only qualifies for $6,712. If they had added ~2 more kwh, they could be at $7,500 (but I assume packaging constraints also fit into the calculation made by the auto companies). I do think that if I had designed the program, the required kwh for each $417 jump) would have increased as the average for PHEV/BEV increased....

Oh, and there's less incentive to come out with a PHEV--under the credit scheme for the CARB states, PHEV are "transitional zero emissions vehicles". Each year, the required percentage of true ZEV increases. See https://www.greencarreports.com/new...b-game-to-earn-zero-emissions-vehicle-credits for example
 
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With v3 Superchargers, Tesla has pretty much done away with concerns about extended charge periods on road trips. There are plenty of documented Youtube videos showing stops of less than 15 mins. For most of us, that's about the amount of time we get out of the car, head to the bathroom, get a snack, stretch legs before getting back in the car.
 
One possible answer to your title question, the car is reportedly a money loser for Honda.

A company can make only so many unprofitable products if they wish to stay in business. Despite the many positive attributes for the owners of a Clarity PHEV, it is not a type of vehicle that frequents the Top 10 Must Make list for a manufacturer.

People want trucks, SUV’s and minivans. Sedan sales are falling. The Volt was the closest competition and it was discontinued. Many folks would rather buy a hybrid version of a conventional ICE that gets 1-2 better mpg than buy a PHEV that would offer them a choice of driving modes and possibly reduce their fuel consumption by 50% or more. They think a PHEV won’t operate unless it is plugged in at every opportunity.

Currently, fuel prices are low in the US, which has led some Clarity owners to operate their vehicles exclusively on gas. People buy gas guzzling trucks and high performance cars when gas is cheap. Who wants an odd looking, gas sipping, sluggish sedan at a time like this?
 
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Honestly, we have a PHEV (Ford CMAX Energi) and a BEV (Hyundai Kona), the Kona being more recent and honestly I won't buy a PHEV again, it will only be a BEV. I can only imagine the range that will be available when we do finally sell the CMAX in probably another 4 or 5 years.
 
Mostly, people buy their cars by $/month and worry about unpredictable repair costs with anything battery powered.

And gas is really cheap.
 
css28 said:
Mostly, people buy their cars by $/month and worry about unpredictable repair costs with anything battery powered.

And gas is really cheap.
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Gas is definitely not cheap! We are talking over $3/gallon compared to the equivalent of about $0.82/gallon in gas.

EVs generally don't need repairs, maintenance, etc. (some of this varies for PHEVs), so we need to do a better job at combating these myths.
 
petteyg359 said:
Only in the immediate cost seen at the pump. The world needs to stop thinking gas is cheap. Long-term, it proves itself rather expensive in secondary costs of environmental harm along the entire chain from extraction and transportation to burning at the end.
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Even in the immediate cost seen at the pump, it isn't cheap.
 
cmwade77 said:
Gas is definitely not cheap! We are talking over $3/gallon compared to the equivalent of about $0.82/gallon in gas.

EVs generally don't need repairs, maintenance, etc. (some of this varies for PHEVs), so we need to do a better job at combating these myths.
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Outside of CA gas is around $2/gal. How did you squirt out $.82/gallon equivalent? Is that a 14kW charge at $.06/kW? Where in the US is electricity $.06/kW?

EV’s have suspension components, brakes, steering components, tires, battery chargers, batteries, electric motors, all sorts of electronic gizmos, cameras, lasers, buttons, switches, air conditioning, auto lock doors, electric operated windows and so forth. Believe it or not, some of those things are going to wear out or go haywire. Some will be expensive to repair or replace.

You are correct, we need to combat some of these myths.
 
Landshark said:
Outside of CA gas is around $2/gal. How did you squirt out $.82/gallon equivalent? Is that a 14kW charge at $.06/kW? Where in the US is electricity $.06/kW?

EV’s have suspension components, brakes, steering components, tires, battery chargers, batteries, electric motors, all sorts of electronic gizmos, cameras, lasers, buttons, switches, air conditioning, auto lock doors, electric operated windows and so forth. Believe it or not, some of those things are going to wear out or go haywire. Some will be expensive to repair or replace.

You are correct, we need to combat some of these myths.
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Well, I am getting the discounted EvGo rate of $0.18/min and have a 100KW charger near me, which they still only charge $0.18/min for. BUt even at our electric rate, we are at about $1.60 a gallon requivalent.
 
ya US and cheap gas that is something I didn't consider. I am in Canada. $1.15 a liter so over $4.50 a gallon. never going back to that full time. I was hoping for a better range PHEV but you in this thread are correct BEV is probably going to be the right choice for me a couple years down the line.
 
cmwade77 said:
Well, I am getting the discounted EvGo rate of $0.18/min and have a 100KW charger near me, which they still only charge $0.18/min for. BUt even at our electric rate, we are at about $1.60 a gallon requivalent.
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Well, the Clarity PHEV can’t charge at 100kW. At $.18/min for 2 1/2 hours, it would cost $27 to charge the battery.

Rates in CA are around $.20/kW, so a full charge costs ~$2.80. If that yields ~40 miles it is slightly less than $3.25 gas. In areas where gas is $1.99 and electricity is $.20/kW, operating on gas is less expensive.
 
Landshark said:
Well, the Clarity PHEV can’t charge at 100kW. At $.18/min for 2 1/2 hours, it would cost $27 to charge the battery.

Rates in CA are around $.20/kW, so a full charge costs ~$2.80. If that yields ~40 miles it never sis slightly less than $3.25 gas. In areas where gas is $1.99 and electricity is $.20/kW, operating on gas is less expensive.
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Never said it was a Clarity, the rate I would get for Level 2 would actually be free at most EvGo chargers, the paid ones would be $1.05 an hour right now.
 
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