Using Sport mode, disadvantages?

[The Gadgeteer]

Assuming one is more likely to start the engine In Sport mode vs. Eco...
If you need to use the engine anyway (ie: long trip, depleted battery, highway, steep hill climb) or it turns on because any number of reasons is there any significant disadvantages to using Sport mode’s extra responsiveness?
(Other than regen doesn’t automatically reset)

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I have found no significant disadvantages, at least given the way I drive (geriatric mode). With a light foot the engine very rarely starts regardless. Hitting SPORT is part of my “Pre-Drive checklist”.

I believe there’s slightly less efficient heating/cooling, but not appreciable that I can tell.

On curvy roads the persistent regen is very handy, emulating downshifting.

 

[insightman]

If you need to use the engine anyway (ie: long trip, depleted battery, highway, steep hill climb) or it turns on because any number of reasons is there any significant disadvantages to using Sport mode’s extra responsiveness?

I keep telling people that SPORT Mode is a mindset. As a hypermiler who never contemplates using SPORT Mode--not even when using ACC--I worry that if I start using SPORT Mode I'll find it addictive and abandon my dedication to achieving the Clarity's maximum efficiency. I've falsely claimed it leads to smoking and drinking in an attempt to discourage others from using SPORT Mode. Other than increasing your chances of getting a speeding ticket, perhaps losing a leaf or two on your all-important Drive Cycle Score, consuming fossil fuel unnecessarily, and adding to the pollution of the atmosphere, there is no significant disadvantage to using SPORT Mode's extra responsiveness.

 

[ClarityDoc]

Agree with above. Geriatric-style driving in Sport mode allows me to get EV range estimates (and actual EV range) in the 60-63 mile range, in mild weather with a mix of suburban, freeway, and Urban driving.

Sent using Inside EVs mobile app

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Facetiousness noted.

But...

Other than increasing your chances of getting a speeding ticket...

Don’t speed.

... perhaps losing a leaf or two on your all-important Drive Cycle Score...

I’m still maxed out.

...consuming fossil fuel unnecessarily, and adding to the pollution of the atmosphere...

Assumes facts not in evidence.

...there is no significant disadvantage to using SPORT Mode's extra responsiveness.

Yeah, well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln...

 

[4sallypat]

For a fun spirited drive on an open road, I love the Sport mode but I rarely can use Sport mode in congested Los Angeles County...

If I lived in an empty state like Utah or Montana where I love to fish, yes I would find more use of the Sport mode.
At least in those rural states, the cost of fuel would be so low that I can afford to do that more often.

But in LA, we are at $4.50/gallon so I shall drive in EV mode as much as I can....

 

[insightman]

OK, I'll agree that careful ("geriatric") driving in SPORT Mode can avoid the evils enticed by that mode. The indisputable benefit of ECON Mode vs SPORT Mode (or NORMAL Mode) is the functionality of the accelerator pedal click point, which is available only in ECON Mode. If GERIATRIC Mode is employed to prevent inadvertent ICE activation and increased charge depletion, the only difference is the angle of the driver's ankle.

 

[LAF]

For a fun spirited drive on an open road, I love the Sport mode but I rarely can use Sport mode in congested Los Angeles County...

If I lived in an empty state like Utah or Montana where I love to fish, yes I would find more use of the Sport mode.
At least in those rural states, the cost of fuel would be so low that I can afford to do that more often.

But in LA, we are at $4.50/gallon so I shall drive in EV mode as much as I can....

I actually like the Sport mode better in traffic because the 0-20 acceleration is much better and it never starts the ICE and seems to hardly affect EV miles

 

[sniwallof]

OK, I'll agree that careful ("geriatric") driving in SPORT Mode can avoid the evils enticed by that mode. The indisputable benefit of ECON Mode vs SPORT Mode (or NORMAL Mode) is the functionality of the accelerator pedal click point, which is available only in ECON Mode. If GERIATRIC Mode is employed to prevent inadvertent ICE activation and increased charge depletion, the only difference is the angle of the driver's ankle.

It's response time too. It does take some more dino juice (and/or more electrons), if used that way - not to go faster, but to get to the higher speed faster (rate of change).

I mostly use ECO now, but punch sport when I want the faster response time (like the red button in the movie Men in Black , plus ACC and sport mode is standard for me on the highway.

 

[KentuckyKen]

I actually like the Sport mode better in traffic because the 0-20 acceleration is much better and it never starts the ICE and seems to hardly affect EV miles

I do not believe you have any more power or faster acceleration in Sport than I do in Econ. It just seems that way because you don’t have to press the go pedal down as far. I can accelerate just as fast as you can; I just have to press the go pedal more.

As long as I don’t go past the click and you don’t go past Sport’s earlier point of calling for the ICE, then we both have have the same power available from the traction battery. And when we do call for the ICE, we still have the same combined power available. All Sport does is remap the pedal response. It does not give you any Tim the Toolman Taylor “more power!”.
And If you say, well I get the power quicker by having less pedal pressure or movement than in Econ, then I will say that it’s a meaningless fraction of a second.

So if you like not having to push the pedal as much or as far when you accelerate, then more power (pun intended) to you. Just don’t try to tell me you’re actually more powerful in Sport than Econ.
And about the different point in pedal travel that the ICE starts and adds more power... if we are dragging each other or panic accelerating, then we’re both stomping the pedal and getting maximum acceleration at virtually the same time.
In fact, I might even argue that Econ is more powerful than Sport when stomped on because it might limit the AC power drain. But that’s so small it’s splitting hairs.

Hey, I’m not trying to rain on you Sport guy’s parade (I was young once before I went from being a Ben-Hur guy to a BenGay guy). I’m saying enjoy it but just realize it’s a matter of perception (along with less foot effort) not horsepower.

 

[stacey burke]

I do not believe you have any more power or faster acceleration in Sport than I do in Econ. It just seems that way because you don’t have to press the go pedal down as far. I can accelerate just as fast as you can; I just have to press the go pedal more.

As long as I don’t go past the click and you don’t go past Sport’s earlier point of calling for the ICE, then we both have have the same power available from the traction battery. And when we do call for the ICE, we still have the same combined power available. All Sport does is remap the pedal response. It does not give you any Tim the Toolman Taylor “more power!”.
And If you say, well I get the power quicker by having less pedal pressure or movement than in Econ, then I will say that it’s a meaningless fraction of a second.

So if you like not having to push the pedal as much or as far when you accelerate, then more power (pun intended) to you. Just don’t try to tell me you’re actually more powerful in Sport than Econ.
And about the different point in pedal travel that the ICE starts and adds more power... if we are dragging each other or panic accelerating, then we’re both stomping the pedal and getting maximum acceleration at virtually the same time.
In fact, I might even argue that Econ is more powerful than Sport when stomped on because it might limit the AC power drain. But that’s so small it’s splitting hairs.

Hey, I’m not trying to rain on you Sport guy’s parade (I was young once before I went from being a Ben-Hur guy to a BenGay guy). I’m saying enjoy it but just realize it’s a matter of perception (along with less foot effort) not horsepower.

I always drive in sport and full regain. My Guess-O-Meter is 65 to 73 miles, I don't think it hurts mileage at all. In fact because I have it a full regain I think it is better mileage.

 

[Dan Albrich]

I really like Sport mode as others have noted, mostly due to retaining regen setting. Someone here said driving with one pedal is near nirvana driving and I agree. Also, if on freeway, the cruise control recovers faster.

With regard to the plant icons, every time I see them I think of the game "plants vs. zombies" which is fun. I think they should have a dancing flower for great economy driving, and the lawn-mower cutting the flowers when you drive like a maniac.

 

[RogerB]

I do not believe you have any more power or faster acceleration in Sport than I do in Econ. It just seems that way because you don’t have to press the go pedal down as far. I can accelerate just as fast as you can; I just have to press the go pedal more.

As long as I don’t go past the click and you don’t go past Sport’s earlier point of calling for the ICE, then we both have have the same power available from the traction battery. And when we do call for the ICE, we still have the same combined power available. All Sport does is remap the pedal response. It does not give you any Tim the Toolman Taylor “more power!”.
And If you say, well I get the power quicker by having less pedal pressure or movement than in Econ, then I will say that it’s a meaningless fraction of a second.

So if you like not having to push the pedal as much or as far when you accelerate, then more power (pun intended) to you. Just don’t try to tell me you’re actually more powerful in Sport than Econ.
And about the different point in pedal travel that the ICE starts and adds more power... if we are dragging each other or panic accelerating, then we’re both stomping the pedal and getting maximum acceleration at virtually the same time.
In fact, I might even argue that Econ is more powerful than Sport when stomped on because it might limit the AC power drain. But that’s so small it’s splitting hairs.

Hey, I’m not trying to rain on you Sport guy’s parade (I was young once before I went from being a Ben-Hur guy to a BenGay guy). I’m saying enjoy it but just realize it’s a matter of perception (along with less foot effort) not horsepower.

So your argument is that Econ is just as good, if not better, in all aspects of power/acceleration? That sure is an interesting position to take. Seems like a lot of marginalizing of the "perceived" responsiveness of Sport mode and theorizing as many benefits as possible for Econ. Sure seems like a rain shower to me.

 

[KentuckyKen]

I always drive in sport and full regain. My Guess-O-Meter is 65 to 73 miles, I don't think it hurts mileage at all. In fact because I have it a full regain I think it is better mileage.

Absolutely agree with you. Sport with a light foot being careful not to engage the ICE is just as good as Econ. Economy is all about accelerating slower and anticipating the braking so you go easy on the go pedal and come off it sooner. Also, keeping the low rolling resistance tires properly inflated. (I documented an ~2 mile loss of range with low pressure.)

And if you’re crazy like me and @insightman and are willing to feel like ChillyWilly (if you get that reference you are officially old!) with no cabin heat you can even get good EV milage in the winter.
However, after one winter of freezing myself in the car to see what I could squeeze out of her, next year it’s going to be as much heat as I want and milage be d*#&@$! So next winter I’m going to find out if my cabin heater even works!
I think @insightman and I are having trouble getting over our past hypermiling indiscretions.

 

[sniwallof]

I do not believe you have any more power or faster acceleration in Sport than I do in Econ. It just seems that way because you don’t have to press the go pedal down as far. I can accelerate just as fast as you can; I just have to press the go pedal more.

As long as I don’t go past the click and you don’t go past Sport’s earlier point of calling for the ICE, then we both have have the same power available from the traction battery. And when we do call for the ICE, we still have the same combined power available. All Sport does is remap the pedal response. It does not give you any Tim the Toolman Taylor “more power!”.
And If you say, well I get the power quicker by having less pedal pressure or movement than in Econ, then I will say that it’s a meaningless fraction of a second.

So if you like not having to push the pedal as much or as far when you accelerate, then more power (pun intended) to you. Just don’t try to tell me you’re actually more powerful in Sport than Econ.
And about the different point in pedal travel that the ICE starts and adds more power... if we are dragging each other or panic accelerating, then we’re both stomping the pedal and getting maximum acceleration at virtually the same time.
In fact, I might even argue that Econ is more powerful than Sport when stomped on because it might limit the AC power drain. But that’s so small it’s splitting hairs.

Hey, I’m not trying to rain on you Sport guy’s parade (I was young once before I went from being a Ben-Hur guy to a BenGay guy). I’m saying enjoy it but just realize it’s a matter of perception (along with less foot effort) not horsepower.

I think there may be a bit more to the difference between econ and sport than just accelerator / go pedal remapping. Someone earlier mentioned control loop response time, and I think there may be additional differences beyond the mapping of pedal position for a given power level, such as control loop response time or time constants related to rate of change, how fast you press the go pedal from position one to position two.

The question is not the time it takes to move the go pedal for two different lengths of travel between econ remapped to sport, rather how the control loops respond to the change, the request (by foot) to go from power level one to power level two, regardless of the distance the pedal moved (more in econ than in sport).

That does not mean more power, it just means that the higher level of power requested, can be achieved more quickly in sport than econ. This means some more energy used, but only if you move the pedal relatively quickly from position one to to position two. That is why sport can be the same energy wise, if you move relatively slowly between position one and position two.

I do not think the issue is time of travel of the go pedal over different lengths of go pedal travel (econ vs. sport), more how the electronics time constants work going from demand power P initial to P desired (by go pedal position). More than the differently mapped positions for the same power desired from econ to sport, there may be an additional factor of how fast the power electronics ramps up to the second power level.

This effect shows clearly in ACC as has been mentioned several times in passing in econ - ACC versus sport - ACC. There may be other ways to test the proposition that there are control loop response times modified, as well as the physical mapping differences of the go pedal between econ and sport modes.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Random bits...

We bought our Clarity on a cold November day in Chattanooga. Since then our EV range has been gradually increasing.

Today took me on a 60.2 mile out-and-back from our home to Ellijay, GA, then to Blue Ridge for some errands, then home. SPORT all the way, stayed on back roads, so not much more than 50-55 mph on mostly gently rolling terrain. Estimated EV range at the beginning was 49 miles. No ICE activation until EV range hit zero, just as the trip meter hit 58.0 miles, a new record.

We have some fairly flat, straight 4-lane near us. Tomorrow I plan on doing some timed 0-50 mph tests in ECON, “normal” and SPORT, maybe 3 runs for each. I’ll use my GoPro to record each run, then time them on the video when I get home. My working hypothesis is that the mode won’t matter much, but I’m keeping an open mind and I’m prepared to eat crow if I’m wrong.

 

[KentuckyKen]

Eagerly awaiting more data. It’s kind of fun and frustrating at the same time to reverse engineer what this techno-marvel is thinking and doing. It would be fun to take 2 Claritys to the drag strip and time Econ vs Sport vs “Normal” (non Sport, non Econ). Then reverse the modes to account for any car to car differences. I have only one Clarity I know of near me and the nearest drag strip with tee and timer is about 2 hours away. So @Fast Eddie B, we’re counting on you!

 

[sniwallof]

Random bits...

We bought our Clarity on a cold November day in Chattanooga. Since then our EV range has been gradually increasing.

Today took me on a 60.2 mile out-and-back from our home to Ellijay, GA, then to Blue Ridge for some errands, then home. SPORT all the way, stayed on back roads, so not much more than 50-55 mph on mostly gently rolling terrain. Estimated EV range at the beginning was 49 miles. No ICE activation until EV range hit zero, just as the trip meter hit 58.0 miles, a new record.

We have some fairly flat, straight 4-lane near us. Tomorrow I plan on doing some timed 0-50 mph tests in ECON, “normal” and SPORT, maybe 3 runs for each. I’ll use my GoPro to record each run, then time them on the video when I get home. My working hypothesis is that the mode won’t matter much, but I’m keeping an open mind and I’m prepared to eat crow if I’m wrong.

I think the biggest challenge is how to keep ICE off during the test runs, without skewing the data (where by addressing the ICE off condition with so much focus, the test becomes derailed). Probably easiest in ECO, going to the stop. But, then bringing sport full on EV without tripping over into ICE might not be so easy, although you have some hours with the car now, so maybe it is doable (test pilot status .

Someone did just a couple of tests like that discussed here, some weeks or months back. I think he did not go to the stop in eco though, and he did use ICE in sport (just a vague recollection).

It is possible that the different response times ECO - ACC / Sport - ACC are more a function of the ACC control loops, in which case you might be right that there could be little difference between ECO and Sport with manual go pedal operation.

I suppose if the proposition that power can be changed between two levels more quickly in sport vs. eco, it should show in 0 to 50/60 times. An additional/alternative test might be to time from 50 to 65/70, same problem keeping ICE off though.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I think the biggest challenge is how to keep ICE off during the test runs...

I had no intention of doing that. My test is of "full throttle" acceleration, so ICE will be involved in each run.

My test is to determine whether more total power is available in SPORT, not specific to EV power.

 

[4sallypat]

So which mode or settings do I need to get the 212HP where both traction and engine are running together ?