Zip car hasn’t really impacted automakers. I don’t think a self driving version would have much additional impact. But who knows...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tesla just won the self driving battle
- Thread starter 101101
- Start date
- Replies 44
- Views 5K
Zip car hasn’t really impacted automakers. I don’t think a self driving version would have much additional impact. But who knows...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree with this.
My other primary concern is the “driver” is not able to fully pay attention and be able to take control in an emergency if they are not actively part of the process. Their mind will wonder, they will text, sight-see, etc... They are also legally responsible despite this flaw. Until it’s level-5 I don’t want to have that responsibility.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Zip car is a very lousy comparison. It all boils down to cost and convenience. A FSD car comes to you.
SouthernDude
Active Member
That’s great and all, but is it available whenever you need it? That’s questionable. Realistically, most people will just own an automatic driving car like they do a normal car. These cars will not dramatically shift car ownership.
ColoradoLeaf
New Member
While the FSD product may be reaching a notable state of maturity, the policy of raising the FSD cost by $2000 at a pop ($6k --> $8k --> 10k ...) and not have ownership transferal as Tesla owners upgrade their ride is going to put a damper on getting the product truly fielded. If they cut the cost to $4k, perhaps nearly all buyers would buy it, even if they were less likely to employ it all the time.
If you can earn a $100 a day, 300 days a year from it, is it worth $10,000?
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-fails-vs-gm-super-cruise-consumer-reports/
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Consumer Reports is obvious garbage now. But the current batch of black lies out of GM surogates was triggered by Tesla's FSD beta. GM is Nikola- Cruz-Maven- it might as own bs purveyor Navigant. GM has some tie to Workhorse and Lordstown. There is another little upstart its tied too. CR recently said GM had higher quality than Honda. Yeah right...
Southern Dude- 100k isn't the point of FSD but even at that price it will cut what families spend per yes on trasport by 10x in its fleeet form and elimimate traf
fick and parking spot hunting and free up a ton of urban land and fight sprawl and pollution road costs and make cut drunk driving accidents. Its coming.
Southern Dude- 100k isn't the point of FSD but even at that price it will cut what families spend per yes on trasport by 10x in its fleeet form and elimimate traf
fick and parking spot hunting and free up a ton of urban land and fight sprawl and pollution road costs and make cut drunk driving accidents. Its coming.
They are 'less bad' but far from perfect. For example, they gave a Model 3 a low "usability" score while excellent in everything else. When I checked, "usability" was the single screen in the middle instead having an array of switches, manual vents, and knobs.
Back in my Prius days, Consumer Reports (CR) was notorious for giving no credit for high MPG. At the library, I did a study of what CR metrics gave a higher score and it was for those cars with a driver's "comfy chair"
Bob Wilson
Lift and Uber are causing traffic to increase is some areas, so FSD isn't going to eliminate traffic, nor reduce pollution and road costs.
FSD will help reduce driving under the influence or while sleepy, allow older folks to stay in their homes longer, and well give folks more time to concentrate on something else besides driving.
Last edited:
This is correct. A shift from personal car ownership to automated consumption based cars will cause a massive increase in traffic. But I don’t see a shift to consumption based car usage until long after we here are all dead. It will take many generations to force that change.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
R P
Well-Known Member
We need more/better/safer mass transit in high congestion areas. More cars in LA or NYC is not the answer.
Already starting in Toronto in the spring of 2021, this electric self driving shuttle to be taking a role with the TTC and Metrolinx delivering services and coordinating with Go transit schedules.
Funding from Transport Canada, the 6 - 12 month trial is part of Toronto's Automated Vehicles Tactical Plan and Readiness 2022 which is the first comprehensive automated vehicles plan for a North American city.
https://electricautonomy.ca/2020/10/28/av-shuttle-pilots-ontario/
R P
Well-Known Member
Our feds (Canada) just announced 1.5B subsidy for ZEV transit and charging infrastructure.
https://electricautonomy.ca/2020/10/01/federal-investment-zev-bus-charging/
And a company here locally just announced a new EV bus coming out. They already have NG buses running (BC Transit and elsewhere), but this is their next push. Their stock symbol on the TSX is BUS. I own some shares and they have done very well since that EV bus announcement.
SouthernDude
Active Member
Just no. This “self-driving cars allow you to earn money” idea is just pure nonsense.
Just think about it. If existing cars already have low utilization, that essentially means that most people aren’t spending the day running errands and going somewhere. The majority of everyone’s driving/traveling is essentially to and from work/school - which is essentially when you are utilizing your car. Your car will only be available to provide any transportation services during off peak utilization times, which drastically reduces the potential number of people that could be served. On top of that, the more people who buy self-driving cars and elect to offer it on the market will just mean a diminishing marginal return for each driver per day. Even if the number of actual daily off peak trips increases, it’s unlikely that the increase will offset this diminishing marginal return. It’s even likely that some families would be able to go from having two cars to one car and the one car would be used for any mid-day trips, which would drastically cut down on the potential market too. Why pay extra to rent a car when the family car can just drive itself back home for the stay at home mom to use?
You’re better off carpooling with people in your neighborhood and asking for money for it.
SouthernDude
Active Member
What on earth is 100k referring to? Any savings for any company fleets is exaggerated. Often times the person driving is also unloading the prod they are transporting. So having them not drive wouldn’t eliminate the necessity of the person to still be there.
Sure self-driving cars may cut down on the necessity for downtown parking lots, but only because people’s cars would be driving back to their place of residence to park. It’s not going to create some magical fleet of taxis that eliminate car ownership. That’s hippie nonsense.
SouthernDude
Active Member
Uh. Why *force* that change? It’s utterly unnecessary to do that. People vastly over estimate the reduction of car ownership that will come from self-driving cars. Realistically, ownership per household will not see any significant reductions - especially for people living in suburbs. If anything, families will likely shift from having multiple cars to one car.
So much face palm in this thread.
Why public transit sucks in most cities of the world (outside of Hong Kong and a few others).
1. Walk 10 minutes to bus stop.
2. Wait 5 minutes in various weather.
3. Travel on bus for 30 minutes to central bus exchange, waiting at every stop.
4. Wait 5 minutes for next bus.
5. Travel on bus for 20 minutes.
6. Walk 5 minutes to destination.
Total travel time 1 hour 15 minutes.
Price $10.
Vs private car ownership.
1. Take car out of garage.
2. Drive to parking lot 20 minutes.
3. Take ticket and park car, 2 minutes. $20.
4. Walk 5 minutes to destination.
Total time 27 minutes.
Price $20 + cost of car ownership.
This is why f all people take public transit. It's often three times slower. Public transit is then typically used by people who can't own a car (can't afford it or no where to park).
Vs transportation as a service.
1. Car arrives at your house as scheduled. 0 minute wait time.
2. Car travels to destination 20 minutes.
3. Along the way three computer optimised detours are taking to collect additional passengers. 3 x 2 minutes.
Total travel time 26 minutes.
Price sub $10.
The automation of ride sharing is the big win hetr. Number of cars on the road at peak travel time reduced from 4 to 3.
A single autonomous car should complete 2 - 3 runs during each peak travel period. That single venice can now displace between 8-12 private vehicles per day. Now add in 2 more off peak runs per day (elderly, at home folk running errands), with an average of just 2 people per run and we're looking at displacing 12-16 cars with a single vehicle.
Why public transit sucks in most cities of the world (outside of Hong Kong and a few others).
1. Walk 10 minutes to bus stop.
2. Wait 5 minutes in various weather.
3. Travel on bus for 30 minutes to central bus exchange, waiting at every stop.
4. Wait 5 minutes for next bus.
5. Travel on bus for 20 minutes.
6. Walk 5 minutes to destination.
Total travel time 1 hour 15 minutes.
Price $10.
Vs private car ownership.
1. Take car out of garage.
2. Drive to parking lot 20 minutes.
3. Take ticket and park car, 2 minutes. $20.
4. Walk 5 minutes to destination.
Total time 27 minutes.
Price $20 + cost of car ownership.
This is why f all people take public transit. It's often three times slower. Public transit is then typically used by people who can't own a car (can't afford it or no where to park).
Vs transportation as a service.
1. Car arrives at your house as scheduled. 0 minute wait time.
2. Car travels to destination 20 minutes.
3. Along the way three computer optimised detours are taking to collect additional passengers. 3 x 2 minutes.
Total travel time 26 minutes.
Price sub $10.
The automation of ride sharing is the big win hetr. Number of cars on the road at peak travel time reduced from 4 to 3.
A single autonomous car should complete 2 - 3 runs during each peak travel period. That single venice can now displace between 8-12 private vehicles per day. Now add in 2 more off peak runs per day (elderly, at home folk running errands), with an average of just 2 people per run and we're looking at displacing 12-16 cars with a single vehicle.
The exception is express service. PreCovid, the express buses and trains are full during the morning and evening commutes to Seattle.
Of course the parking lots for express buses and trains are full of cars doing absolutely nothing.
Last edited: