Tesla 22kW AC Charger

Vita1024

Vita1024

New Member
Hello,

I'm trying to convince Tesla to re-introduce dual charger option at least for Model 3/Y. I'm currently gathering community support for my petition (link here) and I also lead a forum thread (link here) with additional information and explanation of my rationale.

If there is anyone who would also be interested in this feature, please support me here.

Thanks in advance for your support!
 
Thanks to everyone for your support so far. My target is to reach 1k supporters before I go back to Tesla. I'm almost half way there. I will appreciate your further support if I have not yet reached the pinnacle of your interest. If anybody is interested in breakdown per country, data attached. Still struggle to get international support especially in EU where I think this feature is relevant due to ubiquitous 3-phase electrical grid.
CountryBreakdown.webp
 
To elaborate a bit more on my reasons - I live in Prague/CR and do not have my private wallbox. Closest DC charger is 7km from me, I have to drive there, risk that it will be occupied (yes I have an app telling me occupancy) and wait for charge.

Closest AC charger is just 500m from me, I can just plug my car, go home and pick it up when charged. The point why faster is:
1) Economy (after 2h parking fee, occupancy fee...)
2) Efficiency - same network will serve 2x drivers

One utility company in Prague figured out that to put an AC wallbox on a trafostation/light poll cost them close to nothing and they will get additional business almost for free (I believe that this idea could be easily replicated in other cities/countries, this is important for densely populated areas where people do not have their own dedicated socket). They are growing them in numbers very rapidly and they are all 22kW. I like this idea and that is why I started the petition.
 
22KW would require a 120A line, that's not practical and it's also pointless. The 11 KW Wall Connector can charge a car from 0 to 90% in about 5.5 hours, that more than fast enough.
 
bjrosen said:
22KW would require a 120A line, that's not practical and it's also pointless. The 11 KW Wall Connector can charge a car from 0 to 90% in about 5.5 hours, that more than fast enough.
Click to expand...

Agree, in the US, without commercial 3 phase power, that level of charger is not practical. Not sure what power is available in the OPs country.


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bjrosen said:
22KW would require a 120A line, that's not practical and it's also pointless. The 11 KW Wall Connector can charge a car from 0 to 90% in about 5.5 hours, that more than fast enough.
Click to expand...

In Europe we have 3-phase electrical grid. 22kW means 230x32x3 = 22,080 kW. In EU, 95% of public AC chargers are capable of delivering 22kW. You can check my Zoe charging in downtown Prague at 21,4kW to be exact :)
ChargeSpeed.webp Zoe.webp
 
20 KW (240v/80 amps) was standard on Tesla Roadsters and optional for early Model S. It is relatively easy in the US. We have a Clipper Creek CS-100 in front of our house that does it.
With Superchargers today, it isn't clear that such high speed charging is necessary or valuable enough for enough people to warrant the cost, but it certainly is nothing new.
I suspect that 10 KW is probably a good sweet spot for maximum AC charging although I see value for lower charge rates as well.
 
Earl said:
20 KW (240v/80 amps) was standard on Tesla Roadsters and optional for early Model S. It is relatively easy in the US. We have a Clipper Creek CS-100 in front of our house that does it.
With Superchargers today, it isn't clear that such high speed charging is necessary or valuable enough for enough people to warrant the cost, but it certainly is nothing new.
I suspect that 10 KW is probably a good sweet spot for maximum AC charging although I see value for lower charge rates as well.
Click to expand...

Speed becomes important when you need to share the infrastructure. I you have your private at home, then I understand that nobody cares. I wonder what will be solution for densely populated areas where this will not be possible.
 
Vita1024 said:
Speed becomes important when you need to share the infrastructure. I you have your private at home, then I understand that nobody cares. I wonder what will be solution for densely populated areas where this will not be possible.
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree with you more.
Clearly, however, the right solution for shared infrastructure is to go all the way with DC Fast Charging, allowing you to charge in a matter of minutes instead of hours.
Level 2 charging is generally intended to be cheap enough that you can tie up a charger for a long period of time. There's a complex balance that car manufacturers must make between how much money to spend for an onboard charger for every car or whether that money should be pooled together for a more expensive shared off-board charger that many can use.
You may recall that Nissan blew it by initially offering only a 3.3 kW onboard charger for the Leaf. That, while workable, was clearly too slow for many and they eventually increased it to 6.6 kW. Tesla shot high with their initial 20 kW onboard chargers and then observed how seldom the full capacity was ever used so they reduced it.
There are some companies that are offering DC Chargers at lower power levels that aren't fast enough to require expensive electrical infrastructure, yet are faster than many want to spend on powerful onboard chargers. https://www.dcbel.energy is one example that I know of.
I suspect that, as EV driving demographics change, there may be further changes. It is good of you to provide this feedback.
 
Earl said:
Clearly, however, the right solution for shared infrastructure is to go all the way with DC Fast Charging, allowing you to charge in a matter of minutes instead of hours.
Level 2 charging is generally intended to be cheap enough that you can tie up a charger for a long period of time.
Click to expand...

Tell this to our utility company. Exactly, cheap, that is why they are doing it.
 
Earl said:
There's a complex balance that car manufacturers must make between how much money to spend for an onboard charger for every car or whether that money should be pooled together for a more expensive shared off-board charger that many can use.
Click to expand...

Agree that it makes more sense to put the cost/weight into the charger rather than the car since 1 charger should serve more cars. But nobody wants to invest into infra (chicken/egg situation at present).
 
Earl said:
There are some companies that are offering DC Chargers at lower power levels that aren't fast enough to require expensive electrical infrastructure, yet are faster than many want to spend on powerful onboard chargers. https://www.dcbel.energy is one example that I know of.
Click to expand...

The problem is that DC wallbox is still 10x more expensive than AC equivalent. If you have a link for a cheap DC wallbox, please share. I have not found prices on dcbel.
 
Vita1024 said:
But nobody wants to invest into infra
Click to expand...

Tesla, alone, has.

Vita1024 said:
DC wallbox is still 10x more expensive than AC equivalen
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you can say that with any authority. Nobody makes a low-power (20 KW) DC wall box except Tesla but they used to make it with two 10 kW chargers in your car or 10 as a wall-box (aka Supercharger). IIRC, the 10 KW charger was about US$2,000. They mass produced about 30,000 per year with their US$80K+ Model S and achieved economies of scale as such.

I wish you luck in your quest but I'm not sure the business makes sense. Certainly producing product for cheap, stupid government utility companies never makes much sense so I'll be surprised if anyone does it.
 
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