KiwiME
Well-Known Member
See this post re tapping noise
https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...roactively-change-it.12562/page-2#post-187653
https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...roactively-change-it.12562/page-2#post-187653
Tapping or Creaking Noise when coasting at low speed
- Thread starter wizziwig
- Start date
- Replies 560
- Views 192K
Hi All -- Thought I'd add my situation for the record. I noticed the tapping/baseball-card-in-spoke sound in my 2019 the second I drove it off the lot, mainly because it wasn't present in the test drive car. It happens intermittently and some days is barely noticeable, others it's really loud. I took it in within the first year and went for a drive with the tech who said "I don't hear it" and immediately dismissed me. Fast forward to today, Kia now says I need a new motor and they are waiting on authorization to complete the work from Kia corporate.
They've had my car for a week already and my family needs 2 cars to get around with kids. They were not able to tell me when I would have it back. Does anyone have experience with getting corporate to authorize a rental car? I've sent them an email but I need one tomorrow so I guess I'll have to get reimbursed?
They've had my car for a week already and my family needs 2 cars to get around with kids. They were not able to tell me when I would have it back. Does anyone have experience with getting corporate to authorize a rental car? I've sent them an email but I need one tomorrow so I guess I'll have to get reimbursed?
Jim Matthews
Active Member
I believe the rental (or loaner) provision is down to the dealership.
In my repeated attempts with KIA Techline to get on with it (in a year of delays, they sent only a mounting bracket) a Seltos was offered.
My 2019 behaved the same way and doubt about longterm service lead to its sale.
https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...-just-sold-my-2019-niro-ev.14831/#post-184864
bubzki
Member
Reimbursement is your only option, speaking from experience.
David T in Silicon Valley
Active Member
I took mine to the shop on Friday for my scheduled maintenance and also try to start the TSB ELE234 process. The shop I went to (Putnam in Burlingame) was familiar with the problem (whew) and said they had had "a lot of them" recently (later someone said 3 in the past month). There was one on the lift with the motor and reduction gear on a bench below it the car when I showed up! My problem is intermittent, but fortunately the tech could faintly hear it (as could I, but only because I have been paying close attention lately) so I was able to start the process.
KIA will only send out parts for one phase of the flowchart in the TSB at a time as the shop works through the flow, So that means they order the motor mount first and then when that comes in I drop off my vehicle. If that does not fix it, the vehicle stays there through the rest of the flowchart until it is resolved
depending on what is needed. The service rep said it can take 1.5 months to work through this serial process! (ugh)
The rep said that their small service center does not have loaner vehicles, so Kia corporate will reimburse a rental car up to $40/day during the repair, and told me who to call (or that they would give me a referral and then the rental place wbut I did not take detailed notes since I was not dropping off the car yet.
@daveinca, if your service center did not provide this information, contact Kristal at Putnam Kia in Burlingame, CA and find out about this. They were super helpful and kind. We will see how it all plays out, but I think I am NEVER going back to Steven's Creek Kia for servicing.
Both the tech and the service rep believe it is a problem with the motor mount design. I asked if they though the replacement mounts would fix this permanently and they were unsure. so maybe I am back in another 25k, maybe not. My guess is the mechanical int
KIA will only send out parts for one phase of the flowchart in the TSB at a time as the shop works through the flow, So that means they order the motor mount first and then when that comes in I drop off my vehicle. If that does not fix it, the vehicle stays there through the rest of the flowchart until it is resolved
depending on what is needed. The service rep said it can take 1.5 months to work through this serial process! (ugh)
The rep said that their small service center does not have loaner vehicles, so Kia corporate will reimburse a rental car up to $40/day during the repair, and told me who to call (or that they would give me a referral and then the rental place wbut I did not take detailed notes since I was not dropping off the car yet.
@daveinca, if your service center did not provide this information, contact Kristal at Putnam Kia in Burlingame, CA and find out about this. They were super helpful and kind. We will see how it all plays out, but I think I am NEVER going back to Steven's Creek Kia for servicing.
Both the tech and the service rep believe it is a problem with the motor mount design. I asked if they though the replacement mounts would fix this permanently and they were unsure. so maybe I am back in another 25k, maybe not. My guess is the mechanical int
Jim Matthews
Active Member
This is a deliberate slow walk repair of a known problem with a single proven repair. I would not be surprised to see 90 days as a quick turnaround time.
Your motor is defective, as were all the others - including mine.
Hyundai/KIA/Genesis are well aware of how far they can push regulators before they are forced to comply.
I sold my 2019 Niro EV after a full year of wrangling finally produced only that motor mount.
David T in Silicon Valley
Active Member
I disagree that we can definitively say the motors were defective. A poorly designed or failed motor mount or could result in misalignment between the reduction gear and the motor. In that state, either or both could sustain damage.
It is possible replacing the motor mounts prior to damage occurring would result in a power train that never develops a problem. I note I had about 20k miles on my vehicle before I first briefly heard what I *think* might have been this problem appearing. I also point to people in this thread who had their 710 motors replaced with a 712 and the problem recurred. It is not as simple as just the motor.
Arguably a different mechanical interface between the motor and the mounts or the motor and reduction gear might make it more robust against misalignment, so in that sense, maybe they are defective. I don't know enough. That later models have a different part number for the motor suggests this is part of it. I think we would need to side by side compare drawings of both motors and the new and old motor mounts and the mechanical interface to the reduction gear to really know for sure.
I agree that Kia is like trying to save money by not letting authorized service centers order the parts for the entire repair flowchart in one go (and keep anything not used from later in the flow on hand for the next customer).
Jim Matthews
Active Member
Online, I have been able to identify less than 30 verifiable failures of the first generation (710) motor. Satisfactory repairs of each documented case required a new (712) motor.
I doubt there are many 2019 Niro EV or Hyundai Kona EV in wild.
Hyundai/KIA response to this proven problem - they issued a TSB - illustrates the approach.
There are exactly zero reported cases of the motor mount rectifying the problem. By the time a user notices the noise, irreversible damage has been done.
David T in Silicon Valley
Active Member
I can believe that. If I can hear a noise stuff probably isn’t mashing together properly and we’re gonna start breaking off chunks of metal.
On the other hand, Kia is paying for the labor of installing new motor mounts and then doing a similar operation again (maybe twice) as the technician works through the flow chart, so it would save Kia money to cut to the chase if it truly is every time, from their perspective. Possibly Kia are just inefficient.
Inside EVs had some pretty sales good data based on vehicle registrations for how many 2019s sold each month. I was rather surprised and a little bit concerned (apparently justifiably) when I saw a few had sold. If I recall correctly, through September of that year it had only been a few hundred in the United States.
Anyway, I just got a call. my motor mounts are in, so I’ll be dropping it off tomorrow. Apparently the motor mount replacement is a one day operation so I’ll let you know end of tomorrow how it worked out.
Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
Jim Matthews
Active Member
Bon chance - they're a nice car, big enough without excess.
Tony Spain
New Member
Hi All. Seemes like this problem is now becoming really well known, and it applies to several different EVs (e.g. Kona/Kaui, Niro, Ioniq, Soul), but there still seems to be no definitive solution from Hyndai/Kia. Here in Spain, in an effort to try to get as many affected owners together in one place, we have a Telegram group (https://t.me/afectadosKiaHyundai). Please feel free to join the group. The messages can be translated to and from English, if necessary. There is also a website that one of our members is creating (http://www.afectadoskiahyundai.com/).
David T in Silicon Valley
Active Member
Well, I took it in and they put in the new mounts and the tech said the rumble was gone. I have not taken it yet onto smooth dry streets to listen for it myself. The sound was very clear only intermittently, so it is possible this has been fixed before damage was done to drive train components. Only time will tell. If I have not heard it in two months, I will call it fixed.
David T in Silicon Valley
Active Member
Yes they were! I went in armed with a printout of the TSB and I did not even need to show it to them. Apparently they had worked three vehicles through this in the past month-ish. (one was on a lift with the motor and reduction gear assembly over the span of about 5 days during my two trips there. )
My sound is intermittent and it was not clearly heard when I took the tech for a ride on some nearby smooth neighborhood streets. I worried I would have to wait for the problem to be worse and bring it back. I felt I could faintly hear something Not Right and the tech agreed and did the motor mount replacement. Time will tell if this really fixed the problem.
Note that the 2 service reps are spread thin. SUPER helpful and wanting to meet my requests (e.g. keep me updated, stick my paperwork and a personal item I left behind in the vehicle when it was going to finish so late in the day the salestaff would have to get it to me) but failed. Cristal took my call after her hours on her own time while I was in the dealership and I was able to recover the item. Her assistant rep had checked me in the day of the motor mount replacement and he was the one who told me they are wanting to hire a third person. He also said they need to hire another tech. He thought them getting busy was because word of their existence is getting out as the complete their first year.
What this all means is while they are helpful and have intention and will to do the right thing, they are spread thin, and you may end up with less experienced folks doing your work...at least they will have folks who have been there before for mentoring.
In spite of the hiccups, this service experience was far superior to the one I had at Stevens Creek where several things went wrong. Maybe I got unlucky, but that was why I went to Putnam further away.
Also note they don't have loaners, so if they need your vehicle for an extended period, get the Kia corporate number. Corporate is supposed to pay for a rental car for you up to $40/day, at least for warranty work.
Thanks for the reply! The sound definitely comes and goes for me and is very faint at low speeds... There is also a new dealership near me at Serramonte with service out of the Subaru dealership so not sure they would be helpful with this potential issue. They were nice for regular service though last year.
David T in Silicon Valley
Active Member
Well, I finally had an opportunity to drive it on quiet roads that also weren’t wet!
You know it really does sound a little bit quieter than it did before. It might be wishful thinking on my part. I’ll keep you posted.
Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
You know it really does sound a little bit quieter than it did before. It might be wishful thinking on my part. I’ll keep you posted.
Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
David T in Silicon Valley
Active Member
Update: It continues to be quieter and I really notice that on the rare dry street days we have had in the past week. I have def not heard the playing-cards-in-spokes-sound and seems like mi/kwh has improved (hard to be sure of that until I have good stretch of dry weather and not cool temps.)
It is quite possible the motor mount replacement alone did the trick. I will set a reminded to check back in in a month.
It is quite possible the motor mount replacement alone did the trick. I will set a reminded to check back in in a month.
Quick update for everyone. Kia replaced the motor and I’ve been driving the car for a few weeks now. The sound is almost entirely gone, I’d say overall a 95% reduction. However I can still hear it in some instances but it’s much quieter. We’ll see how things go over the next few months and I’ll provide an update.