Seem to be getting to 1 bar a lot lately

[Geor99]

At previous jobs, I could charge at work. My current job is 38 miles from home and I can't charge there. So, I need to use about half gas and half electric on my current commute. I should be switching to working from home soon, but that is neither here nor there.

Occasionally, I forget to go to HV mode; and I have run the battery down much more than I had in the past. Bought the car new in '18 and have about 40k on it.

Anyway, I have noticed 3 times or so in the past month that the battery has gotten down to 1 bar. When this happens, the motor will always kick on to charge it back up to 2 bars.

Perhaps, its because I have not run the battery down so much in the past, but I don't ever remember seeing the battery at a single bar in the first 3 years or so of owning the car.

Have you guys ever seen your battery go to a single bar?

 

[Dan Albrich]

Hi Geor99. Yes, going to 1 bar happens on my Clarity (and really has since it was new). If you look in HondaLink app it will also show you've hit single-digits in range percent for EV. i.e. the event coincides with EV estimated range < 10%. On my Clarity, this also == angry bee time if I need to go anywhere but on flat land. I live on a 1600' hill so my car lets me hear about it if I'm on the valley floor and EV range estimate = 0.

For my .02, I'd try to avoid this occurrence. When I know I'll drive outside of EV range, I start the car in HV mode on the way out, ensuring there will be enough EV range for the trip home. I then try and estimate how much EV range I'll need. For the trip home, I can be off a little, and still avoid the 1 bar/ <10% situation or have it occur when I'm near home. What I'm trying to do is avoid true 0% which I believe can happen. I haven't got to 0%. I think lowest I've personally seen in the app is 3%.

There are a few reports in these forums of miss-behaving Clarity doing an unsafe deal where the driver loses power. Search the forums, these reports exist. In the situations described by the few whom have seen this pressing the gas peddle fails to cause acceleration, and you decelerate whether you want to or not. Can be dangerous condition if on a freeway for instance. It's plausible that Clarities who hit 0% put the car in a state where there is no EV to borrow.
The reason I mention this is that my Clarity routinely borrows from EV, then when driving around in HV mode, tries to equalize to the set point when HV was initially pressed. i.e. if 20 miles of EV range and press HV, driving through say rolling hills, you'll see the EV range drop, maybe even to 12 EV miles over enough time. And on that same trip if you get to a flat area that goes on for long enough, you my see Clarity re-gain the EV miles toward 20 - or in my Clarity's case maybe 16. Mine never gets it all back.

Finally if this condition happened to me (ev range = 0), and I simply forgot to press HV, this is a case where I'd press HV charge (press and hold HV) to let Clarity get some EV range back. I never drive with EV estimated range = 0. I'm afraid it will break my car.
Since I've adopted EV range less than say 10, press HV charge, regime, my Clarity has been totally happy. I never get 0 EV and I never get angry bees. And while I do use some gas, I don't use a lot. Fill-ups in my case are every few weeks. We routinely have a trip that's about 46 miles. Top EV estimated range for my 2018 Clarity is about 37 EV miles under ideal conditions. I never see estimated range over 40 these days (although I did when the car was new).

 

[MrFixit]

I agree with Dan - Take action to prevent ever going below 2 bars.
Once you get used to this, it is not a burden and you will be happier with overall performance.

 

[Landshark]

Good write up above.

I’ve never seen 1 bar on our 2019. We make a practice of not going below 4 bars, unless we are within a few miles of a destination where charging will be available.

On one of our first trips, I depleted the battery to 2 bars in EV mode going over the Siskiyou Pass. We continued through the N Cal mountains in HV mode with just 2 bars. Never saw the gauge less that 2. A couple hundred miles later, somewhere in the San Joaquin Valley, I switched to HV Charge until the gauge showed 10 bars. We finished the drive to LA with a half charged battery.

On a side note, yesterday I drove the Jeep 4xe on a few local errands that exceeded the 25 mile EV range. In the middle of the drive I switched from EV to e-Save, which uses the gas engine and preserves EV range. At a point where it seemed reasonable to get home with the remaining charge, I switched back to EV. About half way up the 700’ long driveway, the battery charge showed 0% and I received the notice: “Electric is not available, battery charge too low.” The engine started and ran until just before pulling in to the garage, where I pulled in on a trace of battery power.

 

[insightman]

About half way up the 700’ long driveway, the battery charge showed 0% and I received the notice: “Electric is not available, battery charge too low.” The engine started and ran until just before pulling in to the garage, where I pulled in on a trace of battery power.

How does the Jeep's engine decide how much battery charge to generate before shutting off? If you kept driving would the engine cycle on for 350 feet, shut off for 350 feet, then run again for 350 feet?

 

[Landshark]

How does the Jeep's engine decide how much battery charge to generate before shutting off? If you kept driving would the engine cycle on for 350 feet, shut off for 350 feet, then run again for 350 feet?

It’s probably software that decides and the engine just follows orders. I’m still learning. When the battery becomes drained in Electric mode the car goes to Hybrid mode, which is unlike Hybrid mode in the Clarity.

With a full battery, in Hybrid mode, the car will use battery power in an effort to be as Green as possible. I’d say it would be similar to running a Clarity in EV, Sport and Eco off. It is trying to be an EV, but the ICE can be triggered quite easily.

Since I haven’t operated it yet, with depleted batteries I can only speculate that it will attempt to maintain the batteries at or near the low “0%” SOC. That would almost be the same as e-Save Mode, which preserves the HV SOC in the same way that Hybrid does in the Clarity.

It has a 275hp I-4 Turbo engine, and is quite peppy in e-Save mode, so I don’t anticipate the vehicle being underpowered if the battery is depleted. If that did become an issue, the battery can be charged to 40%, 60% or 80% while driving.

Another side note: the Electric Vehicle display screen has shown a maximum of 100kW being delivered from the battery under acceleration and 45-50kW going to the battery from regenerative braking.

 

[rodeknyt]

my Clarity routinely borrows from EV, then when driving around in HV mode, tries to equalize to the set point when HV was initially pressed. i.e. if 20 miles of EV range and press HV, driving through say rolling hills, you'll see the EV range drop, maybe even to 12 EV miles over enough time. And on that same trip if you get to a flat area that goes on for long enough, you my see Clarity re-gain the EV miles toward 20 - or in my Clarity's case maybe 16. Mine never gets it all back.

I have a 2018 Touring that is one of those that starts the ICE when the battery is fully charged and there is any appreciable descent, braking or paddle operation. When the ICE comes on, until it gets warmed up there is a drop in both EV and HV range. I'm guessing that the same thing happens when you deliberately choose HV mode. Until the ICE warms up it is not actually generating any electricity and doesn't establish a set point until the generator is actually producing. That's probably why we never see the HV range go all the way back to what it was when HV is first engaged, at least with a cold engine.

 

[Mark W]

I don't think I've ever seen only 1 bar on our 2018.

 

[MrFixit]

I don't think I've ever seen only 1 bar on our 2018.

I don't think I have either, but if I wanted to, I don't think it would be too hard to produce this condition. All you have to do is operate until you get to zero EV range (2 bars), and then push the vehicle hard (quick accelerations or high speeds on uphill grades). The Angry Bees will attempt to maintain speed / charge, but I think it wouldn't be hard to drop to one bar while trying.

 

[Dan Albrich]

My own theory is that I broke my Clarity by driving it in really hard conditions when it was new. Before I knew anything about Clarity, I decided to drive from Eugene, Oregon to Crate Lake NP. This trip includes 1-2 mountains (if you count the caldera as a mountain) but the rim itself is a bunch of steep up and down. Anyway, I drove it there when it was new, not realizing letting EV=0 is a bad thing. I remember on that trip thinking - "I wonder if I'm hurting my new car" it made so many scary sounds on the trip. Likely related, I tried to charge on rim, and got system power errors.

Drove home best I could but pushed the car for hours. Didn't even know holding HV charge was a thing at the time or when and why one would employ it. I then spent months experiencing angry bees under normal conditions in HV mode, even when having plenty of EV charge. Came to these forums, more or less complaining about my experience. Kentucky Ken suggested reboot the car (disconnect 12v battery, then reconnect). This worked, and my car became much more normal.

But I continue to lose EV estimated range on *every* trip, even on flat land when driving in HV mode. I must press and hold HV charge to retain EV charge. If I could go back in time, and knew something about the car, it would of been interesting to see how it would fare without having run in on EV=0 for hundreds of miles.

All this to say, don't try and "achieve" 1 bar. Those of us that can easily and routinely experience 1 bar, wish they could not.

 

[Landshark]

My own theory is that I broke my Clarity by driving it in really hard conditions when it was new. Before I knew anything about Clarity, I decided to drive from Eugene, Oregon to Crate Lake NP. This trip includes 1-2 mountains (if you count the caldera as a mountain) but the rim itself is a bunch of steep up and down. Anyway, I drove it there when it was new, not realizing letting EV=0 is a bad thing.

Another theory is that there are some software differences between vehicles and Honda isn’t sharing that information with owners. I don’t believe that you’ve harmed your car or that driving with 2 bars on the battery gauge is necessarily “bad”.

Ours was delivered to Brookings, OR with 2 bars and we drove it to Medford with a “depleted” battery. That isn’t Crater Lake, but it isn’t flat either. A week later was the Siskiyou Pass trip, described previously. There was also a member who used the car for Lyft/Uber purposes and had driven somewhere in the neighborhood of 150K miles, most of which occurred with a depleted battery.

We just did an overnight trip from Medford to Vancouver, WA with no charging during the entire 600 mile round trip. EV range held at the set point while driving, with the expected loss of a mile here and there at each stop. It would “borrow” 2-3 miles going up the minor passes between Grants Pass and Canyonville, but it was back to the set point at the end of each descent.

 

[David Towle]

I don't think I have either, but if I wanted to, I don't think it would be too hard to produce this condition. All you have to do is operate until you get to zero EV range (2 bars), and then push the vehicle hard (quick accelerations or high speeds on uphill grades). The Angry Bees will attempt to maintain speed / charge, but I think it wouldn't be hard to drop to one bar while trying.

Especially if you have a cold engine.

 

[AHolbro1]

Tried to post this last Friday, but I guess it didn't take. Update from the drive home Friday is I hit as low as 5% SOC but still had two bars. 3 bars to 2 occurred about 10% SOC. ICE activated about 9-10% SOC. It was mostly on, but sometimes off on downhill legs and generally maintained the battery at 8%-10% SOC:

"I don't really pay much attention to the bars on the fuel/batt displays, but will do so on the way home, today. My daily commute is 101 miles round-trip. I launch in sport+HV modes, as the first 45 miles are 70+ mph freeway, save a short 5 mi leg about 5 miles in that is "closely guarded" 55 mph freeway. I cancel HV mode as I'm coasting down the exit ramp to start the last 5 miles of the morning commute through town/neighborhoods. At this point, I have normally consumed about 5 miles of the EV range that I started with. Commute is essentially level, with a net 500' elevation change. On the return home, 1st 5 miles is town/neighborhood, but next 5, although freeway, is more stop-n-go bumper2bumper than that. I launch in sport mode EV, and may or may not activate the ICE 5 miles in when merging on the freeway as I have to cross 4 lanes in about 1/4 mile from the on-ramp. On occasions when ICE does activate, it stays on far longer than I believe necessary, remaining on even when stopped at the inevitable stop-n-go occurring just after the merge and 4-lane cross.


10 miles deep into the trip home, freeway conditions normally open up a bit but are still nominally 20-40 mph. I remain in Sport+EV. Until a few weeks ago, I would transition to HV mode when sustained 70 mph territory arrived, then cancel HV when the remaining distance to home was equal to EV GOM Range less 2 miles, generally resulting in arriving home before 0 EV range. The last few weeks I've not been switching to HV, and I hit 0 EV range on the GOM about 15-20 miles from home. As I said, I haven't paid much attention to the bars, because I've taken @MrFixit advice and purchased the proper ELM 27 adapter and CarscannerPro, so I watch Engine rpm, fuel flow rate and battery state of charge instead of the bars on the IP. What I've noticed is that 0 EV range normally occurs at about 10% SOC, ICE does not activate immediately at that point, unless I have a significant upslope or have called for acceleration. Until the other day, I had never seen SOC drop below 7%, though it did dip to 2% once, but once only and otherwise I've not caught it below 7%, normally floating between 7-9% during those last 15-20 miles.


I'll try to remember to monitor the left-side bars on the ride home today and see whether it goes below 2 or not. (Sport mode preferred for stop-n-go traffic, strange as it may sound, primarily due to the regen setting remaining where you set it, but also the more responsive throttle is helpful)"

 

[Dan Albrich]

One note to add, per AHolbro1's post, I suspect that when I do see 1 bar, the % in the app is actually 5% or fewer. I said below 10% in my earlier post, but I suspect if you go to say 7% you still see 2 bars, then when you get to (or below) say 5% is when it drops to 1 bar.

I actually don't know for sure because I don't let that condition occur or not in quite some time, but I do know there is correlation between bars and % of EV shown in the app.

 

[Landshark]

On occasions when ICE does activate, it stays on far longer than I believe necessary, remaining on even when stopped at the inevitable stop-n-go occurring just after the merge and 4-lane cross.

You may be able to minimize the unwanted ICE triggering by disengaging Sport during the drag strip run to the carpool lane. Sport doesn’t make the car any quicker or more powerful. It just modifies the accelerator mapping and increases the likelihood of the ICE activating. Almost every modern passenger vehicle is quicker than a Clarity. If you’re up to speed where the ramp transitions to the 4 lanes of traffic, I bet you can make it over to the carpool lane without triggering the ICE, even if that means you have to suffer the indignity of falling in behind another vehicle here and there.

 

[AHolbro1]

Monday afternoon I experienced my first encounter with the angry bees! Just a few miles beyond the transition point where I've hit 0 EV range and the ICE has activated.....I was driving along fat, dumb, and happy when I noticed a new and prominent noise. I glanced at the Tach and noted it north of 5,100 rpm. I noted SOC reporting 1%. Being curious as to what this had done to fuel flow, I paged back to screen #1 and noted fuel flow at about 6.1-6.2 gal/hr! Unfortunately, I didn't think to check the Left Side EV bars on the IP until I'd already gone back to page 3 for the Tach and SOC data, and noted SOC at 5%. By this point, there were 2 bars, I don't know if it ever dipped to 1 or not. The event ended shortly thereafter as the angry bees settled down and the ICE maintained the battery at about 8-10% SOC the rest of the way home.

WRT Sport mode and ICE activation, I realize it doesn't make the car any faster, though from experience, it does quicken throttle response. If you are accelerating in default mode, and activate Sport mode without changing your pressure on the pedal, you will feel an unmistakeable kick in the back of increased acceleration. Now, you could get that same rate in default mode, but you'd need greater pedal pressure to achieve it. That being said, while welcome, that's not responsible for my affection for sport mode. Rather, it is the feature of regen-setting remaining where I put it. That is quite helpful in traffic, greater deceleration just from lifting without going to the brake. Similar in practice to "J-gating" in my X300 Jaguars. 4-spd autobox with 2, 3, D on the left side, and P, R, N, D on the right. I would normally make that same merge holding it in 2, only on rare occasions needing to drop into 3 to control turns. Jaguar AJ-16 4.0L makes the sweetest music between 3.5k-4k rpm and in 2 that's somewhere in the 65-75 mph range. TBH, the Clarity is really no slouch in acceleration (at least on this practical, real-world basis) compared to that, though the auditory experience is hardly comparable.

 

[Landshark]

Rather, it is the feature of regen-setting remaining where I put it. That is quite helpful in traffic, greater deceleration just from lifting without going to the brake.

I realize that my proposed strategy for reducing the likelihood of the ICE triggering was incomplete. After zipping over to the carpool lane with Sport disengaged, and dealing with the excessive right foot movement necessary to accomplish said task, engage Sport for the slow and go portion of the trip and enjoy the awesome regen from the 4 chevrons.

 

[AHolbro1]

It's all good. To be honest, t'isn't the HOV lane I'm striking for, but rather joining IH820 NB for transition to TX183/IH820 WB as shown here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8221994,-97.2009732,15z/data=!5m1!1e1
There is a lot going on here, and frankly, either of the two left lanes would establish me westbound on 820, but -3 rolls into a merge-mess with oncoming 183 WB traffic so it is just cleaner to go ahead and claim the leftmost lane. I am accepting of the fact that many afternoons, the situation will demand engagement of the ICE, regardless of which mode the Clarity is in.

My complaint was the duration of running, continuing through a coast-down and several complete stops in or just after the long sweeping left-hander as 820 N becomes 183/820W, but in retrospect, I have realized that it is the first start of the afternoon for the ICE and there is likely some warm-up protocol involved. In fact, it could be, I believe mentioned earlier in this thread, that no electric power is supplied by the ICE during this initial warm-up period, which may explain my angry bees episode earlier this week? Although I didn't notice, it could well be that when I hit 0 EV range/10% SOC at 70+ mph that day on the way home, that may have been the initial afternoon light-off of the ICE. If it is not supplying electric power during the warm-up, then that may explain how the battery dropped to 1% SOC vs. holding 5% and above during all previous commutes.

On an unrelated note, I had a valve-adjustment performed by Norm Reeves Honda NRH on Wed afternoon, and the limited initial returns indicate an increase in fuel economy that is noticable, if not significant. We'll see as the miles stack up, but at 150 miles so far, it's using a bit less vs. similar drives tracked daily. Car has 107K miles on the clock, Valve adjustment is indicated at 100k, I think, and with no notion of how the car was used in it's first 96K, I doubt the engine has seen 100k total, but close enough not to waste a 15% off service coupon that expires in a few days....

 

[Tek_Freek]

Another theory is that there are some software differences between vehicles and Honda isn’t sharing that information with owners. I don’t believe that you’ve harmed your car or that driving with 2 bars on the battery gauge is necessarily “bad”.

Ours was delivered to Brookings, OR with 2 bars and we drove it to Medford with a “depleted” battery. That isn’t Crater Lake, but it isn’t flat either. A week later was the Siskiyou Pass trip, described previously. There was also a member who used the car for Lyft/Uber purposes and had driven somewhere in the neighborhood of 150K miles, most of which occurred with a depleted battery.

We just did an overnight trip from Medford to Vancouver, WA with no charging during the entire 600 mile round trip. EV range held at the set point while driving, with the expected loss of a mile here and there at each stop. It would “borrow” 2-3 miles going up the minor passes between Grants Pass and Canyonville, but it was back to the set point at the end of each descent.

When we drove across country and stopped for gas we did not turn the car off. Doing that kept the range that is lost when the car is turned off. Since the engine is not running the danger is minimal. Less than someone smoking a cigarette, which I saw a couple of times.

 

[Tek_Freek]

You may be able to minimize the unwanted ICE triggering by disengaging Sport during the drag strip run to the carpool lane. Sport doesn’t make the car any quicker or more powerful. It just modifies the accelerator mapping and increases the likelihood of the ICE activating. Almost every modern passenger vehicle is quicker than a Clarity. If you’re up to speed where the ramp transitions to the 4 lanes of traffic, I bet you can make it over to the carpool lane without triggering the ICE, even if that means you have to suffer the indignity of falling in behind another vehicle here and there.

I have recently changed my love of Sport to one of not so much. We have been doing a lot of mixed street (45mph) and highway (60mph) driving and I have found that the battery loses less without Sport. That is with me not letting the gauge go past the Engine On! location on the dash in both modes. I think it's because even if Sport doesn't go past that mark it uses more energy because of the change it makes in acceleration.