RIP CHAdeMO?

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Mike L

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In addition to the federal credit, there are can't-miss incentives for the Leaf in my area, so I've mostly had eyes for Nissan. However, I get the impression on a few forums that charging stations are installing more CCS fast chargers than CHAdeMO, because that's the more common connection.

Does anyone else worry that in the next 5 years it's going to be tough to find an available, operable CHAdeMO port? Is a car with CCS a safer bet?
 
CHAdeMO is going to inevitably die. Someone will make an adapter to charge a Leaf from CCS so I wouldn’t let this be a deal breaker for you. Tesla is not using their adapter in Europe, they are putting CCS on their M3s. I suspect the same will happen in North America too, and this is a good thing. One system for all is the logical way forward.


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Chademo also allows bidirectional charging for V2G and V2H applications. CCS does not (at least not yet). So I expect CCS will eventually win out, but there will still be reasons to use chademo for certain things. The Leaf isn't a great roadtrip vehicle anyway (at least not my 2015 Leaf), so I'm not too worried about it. If you are buying an EV for road tripping, then CCS probably makes more sense.

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Mike L said:
In addition to the federal credit, there are can't-miss incentives for the Leaf in my area, so I've mostly had eyes for Nissan. However, I get the impression on a few forums that charging stations are installing more CCS fast chargers than CHAdeMO, because that's the more common connection.

Does anyone else worry that in the next 5 years it's going to be tough to find an available, operable CHAdeMO port? Is a car with CCS a safer bet?
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I think I would be more worried that the Leaf battery would overheat and prevent you from DC charging. I believe all of the Electrify America charging stations have one CHAdeMO charging port.

https://www.electrifyamerica.com/index

One individual bought one of the new Kia Niro EVs over buying a new Leaf because the driving the Leaf they owned wasn't realistic for long drives due to overheating the traction battery.
 
Mike L said:
Does anyone else worry that in the next 5 years it's going to be tough to find an available, operable CHAdeMO port? Is a car with CCS a safer bet?
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Definitely. I think Nissan and Mitsubishi are the only PEV (Plug-in EV) makers selling PEVs in the U.S. that are still making CHAdeMO charging protocol cars. Tesla has switched to a CCS plug for its European version Model 3, and I think it quitey likely that Tesla will soon start equipping its American/ Canadian cars with both Tesla and CCS plug ports.

Public CHAdeMO DC fast chargers may be around for awhile longer, but they certainly aren't going to get new charging stalls and locations added nearly as fast as new CCS charging stalls and locations.
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Pushmi-Pullyu said:
Public CHAdeMO DC fast chargers may be around for awhile longer, but they certainly aren't going to get new charging stalls and locations added nearly as fast as new CCS charging stalls and locations.
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I'm not sure what you are basing this statement on, but Electrify America is installed at least one CHAdeMO charge port at all of the new installs I've seen so far. Certainly, they seem to be the big player in installing new DC chargers right now.

Secondly, I thought the Tesla Model S and X could use an adapter and charge up using a CHAdeMO charge port.
 
marshall said:
I'm not sure what you are basing this statement on, but Electrify America is installed at least one CHAdeMO charge port at all of the new installs I've seen so far.
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That's my point, though: Looking at the (few) EA stations in Ohio, they have 3 CCS and 1 CHAdeMO. At that station, having one CHAdeMO in use or out of service means a Leaf is SOL.
 
Mike L said:
That's my point, though: Looking at the (few) EA stations in Ohio, they have 3 CCS and 1 CHAdeMO. At that station, having one CHAdeMO in use or out of service means a Leaf is SOL.
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Yeah, but for the most part there are only just a few Leafs and an occasional Tesla or Mitsubishi out there to get your way. Compare that to the number of new vehicles using CCS, including the slow charging Chevy Bolts. Plus, you still have the issue with the overheated battery with a Leaf, which I think is a bigger problem for long distance travels.

Here in Washington and Oregon state and maybe even California, there are more locations with a CHAdeMO charger.

http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/electrichighway.htm
 
marshall said:
I'm not sure what you are basing this statement on, but Electrify America is installed at least one CHAdeMO charge port at all of the new installs I've seen so far.
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Okay, one single CHAdeMO plug in a station with several CCS plugs. So why are you disagreeing, when the facts in what you yourself report support my assertion?

marshall said:
Secondly, I thought the Tesla Model S and X could use an adapter and charge up using a CHAdeMO charge port.
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That's true, for those who buy the adapter. I wonder how often they get used? As time goes by and Tesla continues to expand its network, I suspect those adapters get used less and less.
 
Pushmi-Pullyu said:
Okay, one single CHAdeMO plug in a station with several CCS plugs. So why are you disagreeing, when the facts in what you yourself report support my assertion?
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You state there there will be fewer new locations. Electrify America is pretty much the only game in town in most states and they are installing a CHAdeMO plug in all new locations. I'm asking you to support your statement.

Plus Here in Washington state that's just not true. Here there are more CHAdeMo locations. Electrify America, the new state of Washington paid for locations have at least one CHAdeMO plug and all of the old installs are CHAdeMO only. It's the same thing in Oregon and maybe even California.
 
marshall said:
Electrify America is pretty much the only game in town in most states and they are installing a CHAdeMO plug in all new locations. I'm asking you to support your statement.
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Looking at a PlugShare map, I see dozens of public EV charging locations in the Greater Kansas City area where I live. Looking at the Electrify America map, I see exactly one in the area, and the nearest second location in in Topeka. Zooming out and looking at the national map, it looks like EA is similarly sparse in all States but a very few.

Your assertion that "Electrify America is pretty much the only game in town in most states"... is not at all supported by actual facts.

Looks like I'm not the one here who needs to support his statement.
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Pushmi-Pullyu said:
Looking at a PlugShare map, I see dozens of public EV charging locations in the Greater Kansas City area where I live. Looking at the Electrify America map, I see exactly one in the area, and the nearest second location in in Topeka. Zooming out and looking at the national map, it looks like EA is similarly sparse in all States but a very few.

Your assertion that "Electrify America is pretty much the only game in town in most states"... is not at all supported by actual facts.

Looks like I'm not the one here who needs to support his statement.
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I count 11 new Electrify America locations in Western Washington. Plus two locations currently up and running, Spokane and Vancouver. I count zero new stations for anyone else even though the state of Washington was suppose to install chargers at three other locations, including Mt. Vernon, Chehalis, and DuPont.

Your turn, name the other companies outside of Tesla that are installing DC chargers and we will compare their number of installs to Electrify America.
 
marshall said:
Your turn, name the other companies outside of Tesla that are installing DC chargers and we will compare their number of installs to Electrify America.
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I'm not interested in carrying on an argument merely for the sake of argument.

You've changed your argument rather far from your original assertion that "Electrify America is pretty much the only game in town in most states..." to now asserting that they're installing locations in West Coast States much faster than any other company... which I certainly agree with; so far as I know, the evidence points pretty strongly in that direction.

However, my assertion upstream was:

Pushmi-Pullyu said:
Public CHAdeMO DC fast chargers may be around for awhile longer, but they certainly aren't going to get new charging stalls and locations added nearly as fast as new CCS charging stalls and locations.
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Marshall, you're trying to pointlessly continue the argument as if I said only "locations" and not "stalls and locations". Both your current assertion and my original one are probably correct. Two things can be true at the same time.

I'm going to stand on what I've already said.
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You have not shown anyone else besides Tesla who building a DC charging network that is even close to what Electrify American is installing today. They are pretty much the only game in town at this time. I stand by my statement.

Anyhow, everyone of these public chargers appears to have at least one CHAdeMO plug. So from where I'm at, CHAdeMO is here to stay for awhile.
 
Agreed, CHAdeMO is in version 2 and is here for some time. As mentioned, V2G/V2H, etc. needs this for bi-directional uses. These solutions are coming to North America in the next few years. I have no problem finding a CHAdeMO DCFC alongside a CCS here in Canada. They are pretty well always built together. USA may not be as prevalent but there are many areas where this is not hard to find.
 
Calliope said:
The only time I see one without the other is at dealerships. I do 90% of my charging at CHAdeMO public stations, and they are not hard to find here in Southern Ontario.
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We just need more to fill in some distance gaps. Like London to Windsor (only 2 stations and they suck - throttled to 20kW) and large gap from points to get to Ottawa from GTA. Both 401 and Hwy 7 routes - there is a gap of about 180-190kms between L3 chargers and in cooler temps/winter, my MY2018 Leaf can't do that distance so need more in-between. Would be nice if the Enroutes finally did something!

Also, large coverage hole from cottage country to Sudbury and beyond.
 
Problems with Electrify America stations are being frequently reported. It seems that whoever is in charge of setting up the stations is either indifferent or incompetent, or both.

From InsideEVs News: "Electrify America Reduces Power Of Some Chargers Due To Cooling Issue"

One of the comments responding to that article says that in practice, being able to use an EA stations is hit-or-miss. It certainly isn't something you can count on being in operation just by a flag on a virtual map! Hard to plan a trip that way.

Looks very much like the claims that the EA network would soon surpass Tesla's Supercharger network were about as overblown as most of Volkswagen's vaporware claims about making EVs.

Bottom line: Tesla has a strong incentive to make sure its Supercharger stations work properly, are properly maintained, and are fixed promptly when malfunctions occur. Contrariwise, Volkswagen has little or no incentive to do so with the EA network.
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