Request for data from OBDII using Android App "Car Scanner" from 0vZ (Only)

[MrFixit]

Cash:

Here is some data collected over the past few days over a variety of conditions including 3 'full' charges.

 

[Cash Traylor]

@MrFixit

Incredible! Thank you! I hope to have this figured out this week! Cheers, Cash

 

[hobbit]

Maybe I'm missing part of the point, but wouldn't knowing some of the individual cell
voltages help? So that you could track the "extremes" vs known safe ranges per-cell
and see if it's ridiculously narrow in a new car, wider after X-thousand miles, etc?
There's also a possible self-recalibration factor to consider, where limits and reported
SOCs might get readjusted at a convenient 100% charge event, etc..

How many cells in these packs, and are they typical 3.7V nominal at
mid-range, no load?

_H*

 

[Clarity_Newbie]

Maybe I'm missing part of the point, but wouldn't knowing some of the individual cell
voltages help? So that you could track the "extremes" vs known safe ranges per-cell
and see if it's ridiculously narrow in a new car, wider after X-thousand miles, etc?
There's also a possible self-recalibration factor to consider, where limits and reported
SOCs might get readjusted at a convenient 100% charge event, etc..

How many cells in these packs, and are they typical 3.7V nominal at
mid-range, no load?

_H*

Hobbit

Here is a link to an earlier thread which discusses cell voltages etc. There half a dozen from over a year ago which you may find interesting. Search for @AnthonyW for additional posts.

https://insideevsforum.com/communit...ended-pids-capacity-and-specific-energy.2633/

Post #6 may prove beneficial.

Hope this helps.

 

[MrFixit]

Sorry, I found a typo on the last line of my table... The cell Max % was incorrectly shown as 100%.
Here is a corrected version:

 

[Cash Traylor]

Thank you @Clarity_Newbie

You reminded me of something. It has been a long time since I went through that thread, and although I mentioned Ray B here, a lot of what I began looking into started with the information @AnthonyW brought to the table! When that thread was going on, all these cars were so new that very little HV capacity (BCT) variation existed. It is my hope that now a few years later we have enough use (only need 10-15% for significance) that we can actually point to a data trend and draw better conclusions. Of course, if we had the FCAN or LIN buss PID's that would give us the pack CAP/SOH/SOC/BMS Scaling (if it exists in the Honda) etc., well - none of this would be necessary and quite pointless. Either way, for now this serves the purpose to of the forum - to go inside the EVs and build a consumer repertoire of information that the OEM's will not readily provide. I can do a capacity "test" of my HV pack the direct way... however I am not really wanting to heat my pool discharging my pack into a really overbuilt electronic load that is water cooled. There is a lot wrong with that entire solution (the cost is just one of them).... so, back to the digital options.

Cheers,

Cash

 

[JohnT]

Hi Cash - please see my report below:
Please report the following:

1. Year of Car and Mileage 2018 - May 2018 43423 km
   
2. BCT "If Known" and age and mileage of that report (skip if you don't have it)
3. From Car Scanner (make sure you report values under these names only) There are other Battery and HV info reported that are under different formulas.
   1. Hybrid/EV Battery System Voltage (V) start 342.95 end after 40.7 km 312.62
      
   2. Hybrid Battery Pack Remaining Life (%) (this should be the same as your HondaLink Reported State of Charge) 99% 57%
   3. Battery Cell Max State of Charge (%) 95.87% 61.13%

It would be awesome (if you are still driving anywhere) to report two data points.

• Need your full charge (charger stopped) data as above
  
• Some other point in the middle or lower range of charge as above (and below)

My car reported 53.8Ah at 3750 miles in 2018, then 49.6Ah at 13327 (I unfortunately do not have these data points for those times.

For my car the report for this would be:
2018, 15400 miles: mine: May 2018 43323 km

• 342.9v, 100%, 96.27% 342.56, 99% 95.87%
• 335.6v, 90%, 88.5% 312.62 57% 61.13% (after 40.7 km driven, range 46 km )

I am going to get more low SOC numbers once I can leave the house again...

If you can participate, my sincere thanks, if not - no big deal and thank you for reading.

Best wishes,

Cash

PS - for my Canadian friends... I purchased the recommended BAFX pro - nice unit... But WATCH IT! amazon.com $20 USD - won't ship to Canada
amazon.ca - all over the place $89 Cnd plus $14 ship... BUT direct from bafx.com $21.95 USD plus $3 USD shipping - arrived in 20 days.

Cheers John




P.S. Tweaking the equations used on this and another PID project.
https://app.calculoid.com/#/calculator/78363

Wonder if I ask to go test drive a new Clarity with OBDII tucked in my hand would attract any attention.... [/QUOTE]

Greetings,

If you have time and these items, I would greatly appreciate some data. I can only compare my car to itself and I think I found a BMS variable but need to compare it to some other vehicles of varying age/SOH. Anyone with a really new car that can report this with a recent BCT would be great - the OBDII was only $12 on Amazon. Anyone (@StickWare ) that has a really high use vehicle would have great data too!

I am working on a project and don't want this to take anyone really any time or spending any money. If you have an OBDII wifi or bluetooth scanner and an Android based phone or device, can you download Car Scanner ELM OBD2 from 0vZ (or update to latest if you have it). Since the PID and calculation formula vary app to app, this is the only way for me to know the Clarity HV data is "apples to apples" so Torque Pro etc won't work. The free version should work fine for this.

• Use Honda Honda/Acura Hybrids connection profile
• Turn your car to the second accessory mode (second press of power button without break) and be sure to have your headlights and air conditioning off (completely).
• Use the "All Sensors" option and you can enter the search to type in Battery to reduce the list to what I would like to know.
• Confirm your HV Battery Current is at or below 1 amp or wait for that to stabilize below 1 amp for your readings. On this (-) reports are charging, (+) reports are discharging.

Please report the following:

1. Year of Car and Mileage
2. BCT "If Known" and age and mileage of that report (skip if you don't have it)
3. From Car Scanner (make sure you report values under these names only) There are other Battery and HV info reported that are under different formulas.
   1. Hybrid/EV Battery System Voltage (V)
   2. Hybrid Battery Pack Remaining Life (%) (this should be the same as your HondaLink Reported State of Charge)
   3. Battery Cell Max State of Charge (%)

It would be awesome (if you are still driving anywhere) to report two data points.

• Need your full charge (charger stopped) data
• Some other point in the middle or lower range of charge

My car reported 53.8Ah at 3750 miles in 2018, then 49.6Ah at 13327 (I unfortunately do not have these data points for those times.

For my car the report for this would be:
2018, 15400 miles:

• 342.9v, 100%, 96.27%
• 335.6v, 90%, 88.5%

I am going to get more low SOC numbers once I can leave the house again...

If you can participate, my sincere thanks, if not - no big deal and thank you for reading.

Best wishes,

Cash

P.S. Tweaking the equations used on this and another PID project.
https://app.calculoid.com/#/calculator/78363

Wonder if I ask to go test drive a new Clarity with OBDII tucked in my hand would attract any attention....

 

[Cash Traylor]

Had a major hiccup this week - have to postpone analysis until next week, however it looks like there is BMS scaling happening. The problem is I now need to be sure that it is not scaling the useful range of the pack (which again, based on everyone's experience I doubt), instead of the actual capacity. Most of the data here, and I truly thank all of you, are for pretty similar vehicles as far as age, use, and battery stats (without reported BCT's to confirm). For now, unless you are just still very board with lack of things to do you do not need to submit any more data, with two exceptions (other are still invited to the party, variation is the key here). I would like to see another full, middle, empty from @jpkik96 as his vehicle has the most miles in this set as far as I see. Another from @Alex800st for the same top, middle, bottom would be great as his is the newest on the list. I have given up poking at StickWare with his 100K+ Clarity, asking more than 4-10 times is just rude I think. The biggest variable right now is mileage, since everyone's car is only a couple years old now at the most. Assuming the 10 year plan is valid, that is only a max of 20% wear due to age only (if really low mileage) and Honda's spec would likely be a factor of two on that so maybe 10%? Considering my model is only accurate to maybe 5%, that doesn't leave a lot of analysis room for a significant p-value. Maybe in over my head again. Everyone here is awesome, but I am missing a large enough variation in the data sets for a firm conclusion. I am running the numbers against my car now. I have to take it in for an inspection this month and will get a new BCT with these new data points.

I have decided to either rent or borrow a scanner that can get the HV Cap reading and see if I can trap the request and report with the CAN sniffer (would allow more learning time). My original plan use the panda to can sniff the i-HDS queries may fail, as my planned connection point is on the wrong side of the firewall I think. I may not see the requests at all, just the response. Still learning on this part... and with a one shot deal (they won't let me take the i-HDS home) I may miss it.

Any comments on the battery life calculator I posted? I am going to let it expire in 10 days, as I don't care to fund it, and may take the formula and put it in a spreadsheet (if I can figure out how).

Hope all is well - Cheers,

Cash

 

[Alex800st]

Attached

 

[MrFixit]

@Cash Traylor

Perhaps you know this already, but an individual can actually obtain and run the actual Honda i-HDS diagnostic system. I think you can download the package for free, but then you have to subscribe to run it. You can subscribe for a day, a month, or a year. It is $30 for a day, $200 for a month, and $1200 for a year. Perhaps an expert could accomplish your objective in one day - in which case, the $30 is a bargain. A month? Well... That's half the cost of an Autel unit...

Here is where the cost is shown (select the i-HDS button):
https://estore.honda.com/service-express/subscriptions.asp


It runs on a laptop, but obviously requires a VCI interface. That is where it gets fuzzy to me. These are the 'requirements' for the PC and also for the VCI interface:
https://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/web/RJAAI001_J2534.htm

The text indicates that a 'generic' interface will work, but then they proceed to only list what look like 'professional' models.
Can you tell from the verbiage whether something like a Panda, an AP200, or an ELM device is likely to work with this?

 

[Cash Traylor]

The VCI is where the money is at $1500, the subscription is "relatively" cheap for one offs. A panda works on a completely different methodology and is not compatible with anything closed source. An "ELM" device is also not able to work as it is a "safe mode" device that is firewalled. It cannot write to the registers required to get the data out now with i-HDS software recognize it. The Mongoose is the cheapest option and I do like it but it is $500. Now, to be clear - once my warranty is up if I have not hacked the CAN with the panda, then I will be buying a Mongoose, so I can service the vehicle (honestly I expect that other than batteries and oil, most of the "service" will be firmware based resets and recodes).

In the end this is my usual cheapness showing through. I, and I certainly see that you as well, would prefer to spend some of my time to learn and "beat the system" to do the work. It may cost some time but often saves significant money. My aftermarket stereo upgrade on my Clarity would have cost me 4 times what it did (easily) if I had a shop do it. It took me some time, some frustration, but I also learned something and enjoy the satisfaction of doing it myself. That is not something that everyone can, wants, needs, or just sees the benefit of doing themselves. I bought the panda for two reasons, this and homebrew ADAS updates for my car. My venture into the Electric Powertrain is mostly for education now so that I can fix it later.

Best wishes,

Cash

 

[Danks]

@Cash Traylor

Perhaps you know this already, but an individual can actually obtain and run the actual Honda i-HDS diagnostic system. I think you can download the package for free, but then you have to subscribe to run it. You can subscribe for a day, a month, or a year. It is $30 for a day, $200 for a month, and $1200 for a year. Perhaps an expert could accomplish your objective in one day - in which case, the $30 is a bargain. A month? Well... That's half the cost of an Autel unit...

Here is where the cost is shown (select the i-HDS button):
https://estore.honda.com/service-express/subscriptions.asp


It runs on a laptop, but obviously requires a VCI interface. That is where it gets fuzzy to me. These are the 'requirements' for the PC and also for the VCI interface:
https://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/web/RJAAI001_J2534.htm

The text indicates that a 'generic' interface will work, but then they proceed to only list what look like 'professional' models.
Can you tell from the verbiage whether something like a Panda, an AP200, or an ELM device is likely to work with this?

As I understand it, there are two things going on here. One is scan and diagnostics. The other is reprogramming. The tool Honda is recommending does both. I figure the subscription is needed to get updates to both sides, but not to run the software once one has it.

So, it seems that it is possible that a more generic VCI tool will work for scan and diagnostics. It might not give data in Honda language and require some translating.

Beyond price considerations, the big catch seems to be that the Honda software requires - Vehicle Security Professional [VSP] registration with NASTF.

 

[jpkik96]

Had a major hiccup this week - have to postpone analysis until next week, however it looks like there is BMS scaling happening. The problem is I now need to be sure that it is not scaling the useful range of the pack (which again, based on everyone's experience I doubt), instead of the actual capacity. Most of the data here, and I truly thank all of you, are for pretty similar vehicles as far as age, use, and battery stats (without reported BCT's to confirm). For now, unless you are just still very board with lack of things to do you do not need to submit any more data, with two exceptions (other are still invited to the party, variation is the key here). I would like to see another full, middle, empty from @jpkik96 as his vehicle has the most miles in this set as far as I see. Another from @Alex800st for the same top, middle, bottom would be great as his is the newest on the list. I have given up poking at StickWare with his 100K+ Clarity, asking more than 4-10 times is just rude I think. The biggest variable right now is mileage, since everyone's car is only a couple years old now at the most. Assuming the 10 year plan is valid, that is only a max of 20% wear due to age only (if really low mileage) and Honda's spec would likely be a factor of two on that so maybe 10%? Considering my model is only accurate to maybe 5%, that doesn't leave a lot of analysis room for a significant p-value. Maybe in over my head again. Everyone here is awesome, but I am missing a large enough variation in the data sets for a firm conclusion. I am running the numbers against my car now. I have to take it in for an inspection this month and will get a new BCT with these new data points.

I have decided to either rent or borrow a scanner that can get the HV Cap reading and see if I can trap the request and report with the CAN sniffer (would allow more learning time). My original plan use the panda to can sniff the i-HDS queries may fail, as my planned connection point is on the wrong side of the firewall I think. I may not see the requests at all, just the response. Still learning on this part... and with a one shot deal (they won't let me take the i-HDS home) I may miss it.

Any comments on the battery life calculator I posted? I am going to let it expire in 10 days, as I don't care to fund it, and may take the formula and put it in a spreadsheet (if I can figure out how).

Hope all is well - Cheers,

Cash

Cash - here is my latest data today from the app:

Date milage Voltage % remaining % Cell Max added charge kWh
5/3 30,840 310.28 50% 56.81 n/a
5/3 30,854 296.44 11%* 22.97 n/a
5/3 30,854 342.61 99% 95.91% 12.82**

* % remaining reached 11% at EV 0 miles before engine briefly turned on and I parked. When I checked again, % remaining showed 12%
** ChargePoint total charge time - including taper at end was 1 hour 50 minutes; 75 degrees

Thanks again for doing this - let me know if I can provide any additional data points

Jay

 

[Cash Traylor]

Thanks everyone who participated! I have enough data to play with and see if the trends match what my car is doing. If it does then it is BMS software, if not then it is individual batteries. I will hold my breath for someone with high mileage to later chime in. However, if anyone gets a BCT, a followup report would be great. I am getting a BCT during service next week. That is when I will know if any of this makes sense or not.

Cheers,

Cash

 

[DucRider]

Just for grins, tried connecting to my Clarity Electric. As I expected, no luck trying to "connect to the ECU".

Would have been fun to pull the numbers with a 50% bigger battery.

 

[Texas22Step]

I am not sure whether the data I received today from my dealer during an A02 maintenance will be useful to you or not. I asked for a "battery capacity report," but what they gave me was a 5 page report by "Battery Line A" and "Battery Line B" (which is already over my pay grade) and included individual voltage read outs from 84 cells in each of 7 "modules" in "Battery Line A" and "Battery Line B."

The summary info on page 5 (last page of the report) is:

Battery Line A
HV Battery Minimum Cell Voltage 3880.6 mV
HV Battery Maximum Cell Voltage 3887.2 mV

Battery Line B
HV Battery Minimum Cell Voltage 3881.2 mV
HV Battery Maximum Cell Voltage 3888.4 mV

SOC 77%
HV Battery Usable Capacity (Battery Line A) 87%
HV Battery Usable Capacity (Battery Line B) 87%

Vehicle is 2018 Clarity Touring, mfg. date 4/18, purchase date 6/18, no PDI battery data, current ODO mileage 14473.0 mi., charged (typically) every other day using L2 Siemens EVSE in personal garage. Still gives estimated range with full charge this Spring in Texas of over 51 mi.

If you would like a PDF of the report, I will be happy to PM you. I hope this data is of interest to you (since I do not own an OBDII device).

 

[leop]

Texas22step: The Battery Pack Capacity is usually on the page one of the five page report (about line seven of the Electric Powertrain report). This is the info Cash (and many others) wanted. Maybe you could look at the report and post, if it is there, the Battery Pack Capacity.

LeoP

 

[Texas22Step]

Texas22step: The Battery Pack Capacity is usually on the page one of the five page report (about line seven of the Electric Powertrain report). This is the info Cash (and many others) wanted. Maybe you could look at the report and post, if it is there, the Battery Pack Capacity.

LeoP

Sorry, but the BPC is not shown on page 1 of the report they printed out for me, which is entitled "PHEV Type Battery." Maybe the dealership printed the wrong report?

 

[Cash Traylor]

Just for future notes, or if it helps anyone, here is what I print and give to the dealer/service writer when I go in (i-HDS HV Battery Capacity Test.pdf)
Here is a copy of my past reports as well. You will notice that my request for the report resulted in two differently formatted pages each time. However the requested information was on each page so I was satisfied. It would be nice if there was a report number that you could say, give me a printout of report XYZ-123 and it result in something uniform. However, it appears that Honda never really intended this to be a standard customer item as part of any routine "multi-point" inspection, which of course it should be for PHEV's and BEV's. Anyway, thank you for the information and attempt! Here is Texas I have not found a dealer that has any real clue about Honda PHEV's.

Cheers,
Cash

 

[Texas22Step]

Just for future notes, or if it helps anyone, here is what I print and give to the dealer/service writer when I go in (i-HDS HV Battery Capacity Test.pdf)
Here is a copy of my past reports as well. You will notice that my request for the report resulted in two differently formatted pages each time. However the requested information was on each page so I was satisfied. It would be nice if there was a report number that you could say, give me a printout of report XYZ-123 and it result in something uniform. However, it appears that Honda never really intended this to be a standard customer item as part of any routine "multi-point" inspection, which of course it should be for PHEV's and BEV's. Anyway, thank you for the information and attempt! Here is Texas I have not found a dealer that has any real clue about Honda PHEV's.

Cheers,
Cash

Thanks for the info. I have emailed the BCT request to my service advisor and requested a follow-on appointment asap to get the right report run. Sorry for the mistake and further delay.