Reduction gear questions

B

BradTheGeek

New Member
I know there is likely other info here that answers some of this, but some may also be out of date, or conflicting. I appreciated any insight or links to further info.

I recently bought a 2022 EV Ex with cold weather package with 5700 miles on it. I now have about 11k.

I have heard there are some issues with the reduction gear, but that may not apply to the 22 (depending on motor).
How do I determine if mine is vulnerable to this issue (IE tell which motor it has).
Even if mine is not vulnerable, is it worthwhile to drain the reduction gear oil and check it early, and also install a magnet/magnetic plug? I have a bit of a lead foot in traffic, and know the extra torque from being hard on it may contribute.

Any other maintenance items to look out for that I may have missed?
 
I've heard of it happening to all the first gen Niro EVs regardless of year. Seems to be more prevalent in 2019-2020 but that might be because they're older, too. It's just bad engineering.

Check all the recalls. There's also a couple of coolant recalls, and check that your car uses the updated BSC2 coolant.
 
snowy2020 said:
I've heard of it happening to all the first gen Niro EVs regardless of year. Seems to be more prevalent in 2019-2020 but that might be because they're older, too. It's just bad engineering.

Check all the recalls. There's also a couple of coolant recalls, and check that your car uses the updated BSC2 coolant.
Click to expand...

Thanks. The NHTSA site lists no unrepaired recalls for my car. Can you point me to info on checking the coolant?
 
BradTheGeek said:
Thanks. The NHTSA site lists no unrepaired recalls for my car. Can you point me to info on checking the coolant?
Click to expand...

They didn't assign the coolant recall to specific vehicles, I think they just do the recall if you exhibit symptoms. I'm not sure how you could determine what coolant you have...all I know is that according to Kia, the BSC2 is the "new" improved coolant and the low-conductive coolant prior to that was prone to crystallization which could clog the system.

There's another recall assigned to some 2020's that was due to coolant leaking into the ECU, but I don't think any 2022 models were impacted.
 
BradTheGeek said:
... I now have about 11k.
I have heard there are some issues with the reduction gear, but that may not apply to the 22 (depending on motor).
How do I determine if mine is vulnerable to this issue (IE tell which motor it has).
Even if mine is not vulnerable, is it worthwhile to drain the reduction gear oil and check it early, and also install a magnet/magnetic plug? I have a bit of a lead foot in traffic, and know the extra torque from being hard on it may contribute...
Click to expand...
About 95% of owners of the Kona, original Niro and Ioniq report finding pitch-black oil when it's changed. I would suggest having it changed (or DIY) because there's been no evidence that Hyundai/Kia have corrected this issue in 2023, nevermind 2022. Keeping in mind it's not certain that the black oil causes the noise problems nor that changing the oil will prevent noises from starting but clean oil is important to gear reducer health and it's all you can do to minimise the risk.

The motor issue of a failed tail bearing is separate and probably unrelated to gear reducer issues. There's nothing you can do about that except rely on your warranty, if applicable. In any case the chances of being affected by either problem are quite small in the bigger picture, but obviously that doesn't help if it happens to you.
YouTube channel CarRepairVideos documents a number of Niro repairs that are triggered by bearing issues, both GRU and motor, if you're interested. If you want to get a used-oil analysis done you can compare it with the graph I posted on the Kona forum yesterday.

As for the coolant, the issue was caught some time ago, about when the Ioniq 5 came out so you might be ok.
 
KiwiME said:
About 95% of owners of the Kona, original Niro and Ioniq report finding pitch-black oil when it's changed. I would suggest having it changed (or DIY) because there's been no evidence that Hyundai/Kia have corrected this issue in 2023, nevermind 2022. Keeping in mind it's not certain that the black oil causes the noise problems nor that changing the oil will prevent noises from starting but clean oil is important to gear reducer health and it's all you can do to minimise the risk.

The motor issue of a failed tail bearing is separate and probably unrelated to gear reducer issues. There's nothing you can do about that except rely on your warranty, if applicable. In any case the chances of being affected by either problem are quite small in the bigger picture, but obviously that doesn't help if it happens to you.
YouTube channel CarRepairVideos documents a number of Niro repairs that are triggered by bearing issues, both GRU and motor, if you're interested. If you want to get a used-oil analysis done you can compare it with the graph I posted on the Kona forum yesterday.

As for the coolant, the issue was caught some time ago, about when the Ioniq 5 came out so you might be ok.
Click to expand...


I was planning on getting mine changed at 80k, which the manual recommends. The noise is just getting sooooo loud now I have to bring it back. I just got the stupid car back from the coolant recall. Im dreading what will likely be another fight with Kia.
 
KiwiME said:
About 95% of owners of the Kona, original Niro and Ioniq report finding pitch-black oil when it's changed. I would suggest having it changed (or DIY) because there's been no evidence that Hyundai/Kia have corrected this issue in 2023, nevermind 2022. Keeping in mind it's not certain that the black oil causes the noise problems nor that changing the oil will prevent noises from starting but clean oil is important to gear reducer health and it's all you can do to minimise the risk.

The motor issue of a failed tail bearing is separate and probably unrelated to gear reducer issues. There's nothing you can do about that except rely on your warranty, if applicable. In any case the chances of being affected by either problem are quite small in the bigger picture, but obviously that doesn't help if it happens to you.
YouTube channel CarRepairVideos documents a number of Niro repairs that are triggered by bearing issues, both GRU and motor, if you're interested. If you want to get a used-oil analysis done you can compare it with the graph I posted on the Kona forum yesterday.

As for the coolant, the issue was caught some time ago, about when the Ioniq 5 came out so you might be ok.
Click to expand...


Thanks. I will likely DIY oil change and add a magnet. Where can I get the oil analyzed?
 
Blackstone Labs if you're in the US, which I'm guessing since you mentioned 'miles'.

BradTheGeek said:
.. I have heard there are some issues with the reduction gear, but that may not apply to the 22 (depending on motor)....
Click to expand...
As a clarification there were apparently revisions made to the Niro motor post-2019 and there are threads on this forum about this. But there's no evidence that I've seen of any revisions made to the gear reducer, so it's good to stay on top of oil changes just to keep the oil clean.
 
KiwiME said:
About 95% of owners of the Kona, original Niro and Ioniq report finding pitch-black oil when it's changed. I would suggest having it changed (or DIY) because there's been no evidence that Hyundai/Kia have corrected this issue in 2023, nevermind 2022. Keeping in mind it's not certain that the black oil causes the noise problems nor that changing the oil will prevent noises from starting but clean oil is important to gear reducer health and it's all you can do to minimise the risk.

The motor issue of a failed tail bearing is separate and probably unrelated to gear reducer issues. There's nothing you can do about that except rely on your warranty, if applicable. In any case the chances of being affected by either problem are quite small in the bigger picture, but obviously that doesn't help if it happens to you.
YouTube channel CarRepairVideos documents a number of Niro repairs that are triggered by bearing issues, both GRU and motor, if you're interested. If you want to get a used-oil analysis done you can compare it with the graph I posted on the Kona forum yesterday.

As for the coolant, the issue was caught some time ago, about when the Ioniq 5 came out so you might be ok.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.
 
KiwiME said:
About 95% of owners of the Kona, original Niro and Ioniq report finding pitch-black oil when it's changed. I would suggest having it changed (or DIY) because there's been no evidence that Hyundai/Kia have corrected this issue in 2023, nevermind 2022. Keeping in mind it's not certain that the black oil causes the noise problems nor that changing the oil will prevent noises from starting but clean oil is important to gear reducer health and it's all you can do to minimise the risk.

The motor issue of a failed tail bearing is separate and probably unrelated to gear reducer issues. There's nothing you can do about that except rely on your warranty, if applicable. In any case the chances of being affected by either problem are quite small in the bigger picture, but obviously that doesn't help if it happens to you.
YouTube channel CarRepairVideos documents a number of Niro repairs that are triggered by bearing issues, both GRU and motor, if you're interested. If you want to get a used-oil analysis done you can compare it with the graph I posted on the Kona forum yesterday.

As for the coolant, the issue was caught some time ago, about when the Ioniq 5 came out so you might be ok.
Click to expand...

TSB: ELE234 Niro EV (DE EV) April 2021
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10191531-0001.pdf
DRIVE UNIT INSPECTION & REPLACEMENT FOR EV MOTOR RUMBLE NOISE


TSB: SA512 Niro EV (DE EV) April 2023
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10235407-0001.pdf
SERVICE ACTION: INVERTER COOLANT/DEBRIS FLUSHING/REPLACEMENT FOR CLUSTER MESSAGE “REFILL INVERTER COOLANT” (SA512)

Both are common issues with Hyundai Kona, Ioniq, Kia Niro, Soul EVs ... probably Hyundai Ioniq 5/6 and Kia EV6 also. These EVs are all too new for everyone in the industry to be gushing over how much more reliable they are over combustion engines. (It sounds familiar... like the certainty of safety and effectiveness of a brand-new vaccine for a novel virus?) but I digress...

I never had the motor issue with my 2020 Ioniq, but I did have the false low coolant warning.
My 2019 Kia Niro EV I just got (Certified Pre-Owned) has the motor rumble noise. Kia dealership I bought from should not have certified it. They either overlooked or ignored the sound. It is a checkbox they checked off in the 165-point inspection. The dealership I took to for service, is starting to follow the flowchart in the TSB. They want me to pick up the car while the bracket/mount parts are on order, then return the car to have them installed. Even though they know it's not going to fix the sound. I understand they have to follow protocol, but shouldn't a known possible motor/gear failure be a safety issue not to have the customer drive the car back and forth while parts are on order? I would think they would get you up in a rental/loaner right away until the issue is resolved. It's a covered warranty service. Rental/loaner cars are part of that warranty agreement. Am I missing something? Everything has to be a battle.
 
natesc0tt said:
TSB: ELE234 Niro EV (DE EV) April 2021
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10191531-0001.pdf
DRIVE UNIT INSPECTION & REPLACEMENT FOR EV MOTOR RUMBLE NOISE


TSB: SA512 Niro EV (DE EV) April 2023
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10235407-0001.pdf
SERVICE ACTION: INVERTER COOLANT/DEBRIS FLUSHING/REPLACEMENT FOR CLUSTER MESSAGE “REFILL INVERTER COOLANT” (SA512)

Both are common issues with Hyundai Kona, Ioniq, Kia Niro, Soul EVs ... probably Hyundai Ioniq 5/6 and Kia EV6 also. These EVs are all too new for everyone in the industry to be gushing over how much more reliable they are over combustion engines. (It sounds familiar... like the certainty of safety and effectiveness of a brand-new vaccine for a novel virus?) but I digress...

I never had the motor issue with my 2020 Ioniq, but I did have the false low coolant warning.
My 2019 Kia Niro EV I just got (Certified Pre-Owned) has the motor rumble noise. Kia dealership I bought from should not have certified it. They either overlooked or ignored the sound. It is a checkbox they checked off in the 165-point inspection. The dealership I took to for service, is starting to follow the flowchart in the TSB. They want me to pick up the car while the bracket/mount parts are on order, then return the car to have them installed. Even though they know it's not going to fix the sound. I understand they have to follow protocol, but shouldn't a known possible motor/gear failure be a safety issue not to have the customer drive the car back and forth while parts are on order? I would think they would get you up in a rental/loaner right away until the issue is resolved. It's a covered warranty service. Rental/loaner cars are part of that warranty agreement. Am I missing something? Everything has to be a battle.
Click to expand...

Kia seems to be doing everything they can to avoid taking responsibility for this defect. I'm currently dealing with it also. In my case they keep pretending the sound is a-ok-normal. It's back in the shop, AGAIN, to see if they will finally do something about it.
 
natesc0tt said:
... I understand they have to follow protocol, but shouldn't a known possible motor/gear failure be a safety issue not to have the customer drive the car back and forth while parts are on order? I would think they would get you up in a rental/loaner right away until the issue is resolved. It's a covered warranty service. Rental/loaner cars are part of that warranty agreement. Am I missing something? Everything has to be a battle.
Click to expand...
I've heard of one instance where a Kona (same issue) was 'quarantined' until parts arrived due to it being considered 'too dangerous to drive'. That owner was just as unhappy as you are about the opposite happening. Did you explain to the dealer that you were unhappy driving 'a death trap'?

Other resources for 2018-2022 Niro owner experiences below. Reddit is the most active while the Niro forum has an owner in the early stages of a noise issue and I've offered additional info there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/KiaNiroEV/
https://www.kianiroforum.com/forums/2018-kia-niro-ev-general-discussion.97/

I'll emphasise that there is no evidence that the 2023+ Niro, Ioniq 5/6, and EV6 have any of these issues including the blue coolant. That latter issue was discovered just before the Ioniq 5 was released.
 
NHTSA Vehicle Complaint Form:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem#vehicle/vehicle-information

"cards in spokes", "motor rumble", "wheel of fortune", "clicking/tapping" sound.

Please, everyone with this or other motor/gear failures, take the time to visit National Highway Traffic Safety Administration website and fill out complaint form so we can get official eyes tracking these issues. Even if you have already gotten yours fixed or since sold it or traded it in. It's important for those who are looking to buy these used to know the common failures. It doesn't show up when you research the vehicle since it's not an official recall campaign. Instead after buying one myself and going into the forums, I discovered its a known-issue that the Manufacturer doesn't want to publicize and many service centers don't know about, acknowledge or know how to / want to fix. It turns out if you get down deep into NHTSA site about the Kia Niro or Hyundai Kona EV, they bury the information in the Manufacturer Communications section. But so far still ZERO complaints listed. This doesn't make sense as many of us on here and other sites discuss this common problem and an official TSB leads me to believe that Kia/Hyundai want to quietly deal with those who report it (as they are up to their ears in replacing GDI engines for oil burning/design malfunctions).

TSB: ELE234 (Rev 1) Niro EV (DE EV) April 2021

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10193244-0001.pdf

DRIVE UNIT INSPECTION & REPLACEMENT FOR EV MOTOR RUMBLE NOISE

Here the issue is hidden in a stack of many other Manufacturer Communications:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2019/KIA/NIRO%2520ELECTRIC/SUV/FWD#manufacturerCommunications
 
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