Question about Level 1 Charger

[Rachelny]

I just brought home my new Clarity, right before it rained here in NY. I see that the charger box needs to stay off the ground and be protected from rain, but how about the plug that goes into the car? Thanks to all you experienced drivers--I am sure this is just one of many questions to come.

 

[2002]

I just brought home my new Clarity, right before it rained here in NY. I see that the charger box needs to stay off the ground and be protected from rain, but how about the plug that goes into the car? Thanks to all you experienced drivers--I am sure this is just one of many questions to come.

The plug should not be left on the ground as it could be damaged if left in standing water. Other than that being exposed to the elements it should be okay, although creating some type of shelter for it might be better to help keep it dry so that it is not wet when you plug it in, per the instructions before using the charger:

" Make sure the charging cable is dry. Check that there is no water in the immediate area, and that your hands are dry."

Then again a lot of people with electric vehicles pay no attention to rain or snow and plug in anytime and have no problems, others prefer to be more cautious. Although on that point one nice thing about PHEV vehicles compared to a BEV is that charging is optional, meaning that if you arrive home with low or 0 EV range and it is raining and you prefer to just go straight into the house and not deal with plugging the car in and getting soaked, you don't have to, the car will still be quite driveable the next time you go somewhere and you can later charge it when it is more convenient. That being said there are various advantages to keeping it charged up which is what you will normally want to do, and you won't want to go more than a few days without charging it, but the point is that it is not required to charge it before you can drive it.

 

[KentuckyKen]

Extensive use of my usually reliable Google-Fu leads me to believe that the J1772 standard and the NEC has taken this into account so you are fine to charge in the rain. Of all the many sources if information I found, here is one that sums it up nicely.

http://www.autosavant.com/2011/01/25/dont-be-shocked-but-ev-charging-is-very-safe/

And here is part of Clipper Creek’s very informative FAQ section:

Q: Can I charge my electric vehicle with a ClipperCreek EVSE when it is raining or snowing? A: Yes, the charging head on ClipperCreek® electric vehicle charge stations are designed to drain water and the inlet on your vehicle is designed to drain water as well. Once the charging head is connected into your vehicles inlet, a water tight seal will be formed.
For more information about charging outdoors, watch our short video

And from greentransportstion.net

The Wikipedia's writeup of the J1772 plug includes a nice section on its safety. Turns out that it was explicitly designed with several levels of "shock protection" that ensure safe operation in wet conditions. First, the pins are isolated on the interior of the connector when mated, ensuring there's no chance for physical connection between pins. Second, the pins are of differing length, carefully set up so that the control pin connection is disconnected first when removing the plug, causing the power to shut off before the plug is removed from the socket. Finally, the standard includes ground fault monitoring.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772#Safety

Because the charging plug has no power until it's fully plugged in, and the plug design has excellent isolation from water, both the plug and charging socket are safe in the rain.

The American J1772 plug isn't the only one in use. The European J1772 plug has its own safety design as well, as do both versions of the Combo Charging System plug.

The CHAdeMO DC Fast Charging system has its own built-in safety elements, including ground fault detection.

http://www.chademo.com/pdf/interface.pdf

Also all the other EV forums all say that rain is not a safety concern for all the reasons, explanations, and standards of the J1772, EVSEs, and onboard car chargers mentioned above.

So bottom line, you are safe as long as you follow the instructions.

 

[2002]

So bottom line, you are safe as long as you follow the instructions.

I think there is no question that if it starts raining AFTER the charge cable is plugged in there is no problem, everything is pretty water tight. But if it is raining, especially raining hard when you plug in, during the few seconds that the charging door is open water can get into the outlet, same even if it's not raining but the plug is wet.

Reminding that the instructions say:

"Make sure the charging cable is dry. Check that there is no water in the immediate area, and that your hands are dry."

The Clipper Creek manual that you quoted states:

"Once the charging head is connected into your vehicles inlet, a water tight seal will be formed."

Does it cause a problem if you don't follow the instructions and plug in while it is raining? Probably not , as evidenced by people doing it all the time. Is it a good idea? That is for each to decide for themselves.

 

[KentuckyKen]

Good points, but on the other hand, there have been zero cases of electrocution in the millions and millions of public charging events and so a significant number must have occurred in rainy conditions. But as you mentioned, everyone has their own comfort and risk aversion level.
For me, some rain would be ok, but a gully washer, Biblical flood type of rain rain might make me just burn a gallon of gas instead of charging if I haven’t got an umbrella to stand under.

 

[2002]

there have been zero cases of electrocution in the millions and millions of public charging events and so a significant number must have occurred in rainy conditions.

One difference might be that public charging stations are presumably professionally installed, adequately grounded, etc. and using high quality durable equipment. OTOH people do all kinds of crazy things with their home Level 2 installations. And a lot of people go with the cheapest EVSE they can find, made by companies that are somewhat across the board in terms of company size and longevity. Maybe none of this is that huge of a problem if charging in a nice dry garage, but an outdoor installation in the rain? Seems like things get just a little more iffy.

 

[KentuckyKen]

One difference might be that public charging stations are presumably professionally installed, adequately grounded, etc. and using high quality durable equipment. OTOH people do all kinds of crazy things with their home Level 2 installations. And a lot of people go with the cheapest EVSE they can find, made by companies that are somewhat across the board in terms of company size and longevity. Maybe none of this is that huge of a problem if charging in a nice dry garage, but an outdoor installation in the rain? Seems like things get just a little more iffy.

Sorry, this got a little long.

I thought that was a valid concern too, so I did a little more research on it.
It seems that the J1772 standard was developed to make EV charging as safe and as user friendly as possible.

I found that it purposely does not require any input by the user in any circumstance and works safely with any EV and any EVSE. For example, you don’t have to worry if your car is compatible with the EVSE. As long as the plug/port match (both J1772) both you and your car will be protected from harm. And therefore it doesn’t matter if the EVSE can deliver a higher Amperage than your car’s charger can handle since that’s all covered in the communications protocols. And no EVSE can ever overcharge or charge your car too fast, because the car’s charger/BMS is in control of the charging. The EVSE merely supplies the power under the control of the car’s charger.

Also, we human beings are protected as well by the Charge Circuit Interrupt which senses ground current flow and the Connection Interlock which de-energizes the cable and plug. Coupled with the physical design of the prongs which have recessed electrical conductors, it’s designed to make it practically impossible for any rational human being to electrocute themselves.

The result is that the cable from EVSE source all the way to its recessed plug contacts is always de-energized unless the plug is fully inserted into the car’s charger port for the EVSE to receive the OK signal to furnish power. The reverse is also true in that before you even get the plug out of the port it’s also de-energized. This is accomplished by having the communication conductors shorter than the power conductors so that even in the middle of 240 V, 7 Amp charging, the loss of signal happens before you can unplug and power is cut off. A side effect of this also prevents any high voltage arcing since the power is alway off whenever a power contact is made or broken.
And note that the recessed conductors are individually enclosed and protected by the outer round part of the plug that goes inside the outer part of the receptacle on car. That’s a lot of physical and electronic redundancy and protection from rain. (And as much protection from stupidity as possible.)

So the J1772 safety standard has physical, electrical, and software designs to prevent harm to people or EVs even in the rain. Based on this, I’m changing my mind and charging in the rain if I need to away from home.

Since I try to refrain from just giving my personal opinions when safety or money is at stake, I’ve included some sources for the above (these also have some good EV info) and two screen shots from the SAE article that describes the 4 safety features of the J1772 (not all are applicable).

After going down this rabbit hole of charging safety, I’ve come to realize that the larger concern is not at the J1772 plug and port connection at the car but rather at any and all connections made to the EVSE. Particularly if the EVSE is not hard wired. As several posts have shown, there is much more potential for trouble there than at the car. For example we have had reports of overheating at receptacles and plugs, and water (rain) problems by not having all connection from the EVSE to the grid weather proofed. And that means protecting not just the receptacle but also any connections created by using an extension cord. Also, extension cords have to be sized for Ampacity and used correctly while the charging cable is plug ‘n play thanks to the J1772 standard.

Additionally, a second larger concern than charging in the rain is the use of non certified EVSEs. Yeah, I’m trash talking those cheap EVSEs from China that are not UL or ETL listed which means they are not tested by NRTL on an ongoing basis as required by the NEC and CEC. And BTW, having only a CE label by itself means nothing and is NOT safe! Before you pillory me over this please read the Clipper Creek safety article (listed in the PDF EV safety sources) attached which will explain all this and educate you on the rather deceptive packaging and advertising going on with our Chinese comrades. (Full disclosure: I’m not endorsing Clipper Creek, I’m a ChargePoint guy using their safety article.)
Just want everyone to be safe since were all going be doing a lot of charging for the foreseeable future.

 

[2002]

I knew that the power doesn't flow until after contact but thought there still could potentially be a problem with arching if the conductors were wet. However even if wet they are in contact before power starts so I suppose that prevents arching even in that situation. And of course the conductors are isolated from each other in the outlet. I was really thinking of damage to the EVSE and car when thinking about arching.

Risk of electric shock would more likely be due to defective manufacture or an EVSE that has been worn or damaged, more likely I would think with lower cost units, and more likely to be a problem in wet conditions. Or connections that get wet as you pointed out.

I think we usually agree to disagree with those who promote unofficial workarounds such as adapters, again inside a garage or carport that is probably okay if the person knows what they are doing. But when we are talking about outdoor installations where the equipment will be used wet then I don't really see a place for bending the rules. Or trying to cut costs on the hardware by going with less proven companies. And ideally avoiding extension cords, however for outdoor that can be a challenge when the distance is great, but at least if the entirety of the extension cord including the connection to the EVSE is kept dry then if there is no other choice an extension cord might be okay for outdoors.

 

[MrFixit]

[Don't shoot me for saying this], but water is really not a very good conductor. If you accidentally leave an extension cord out in the rain, it is not going to short out, or cause a problem. I am not recommending it, and this is partly why GFCI's exist (to detect very small amounts of current going the wrong way). Yes, I know water conducts better when it is not pure (and it never is).
My only point here is that even if the multitude of designed-in foolproof safety features were to fail in some obscure way, the risk of personal injury is still likely to be small. [Don't shoot me for saying this].

 

[ken wells]

This is accomplished by having the communication conductors shorter than the power conductors so that even in the middle of 240 V, 7 Amp charging, the loss of signal happens before you can unplug and power is cut off.

To that I would add: There is a mechanical release button on top of the plug that you have to press before you can pull out the plug. Depressing this button (on mine, anyway) immediately de-energizes the charge system. You can tell because the green charging light in the charge port extinguishes even if you don't pull on the plug. I don't know if there are any other sensors to check if the plug is in the socket other than the low voltage square wave signaling system.

 

[M.M.]

Speaking as an engineer with a fair amount of electrical design experience and a decent degree of familiarity with the J1772 standard, as explained in the documents KentuckyKen cites, it's fine for both you and the car. The worst thing that could possibly happen would be that your charger registers an error; if there is enough conductive liquid in the head to cause a short (either to you or between the two charger pins), it would also short the pilot signal, which would prevent a charge event from beginning.

That would likely only happen if the connector or the port were drenched in salt water. In reality, the combination of the connector design (notice that the wells are extremely deep, fit tightly, and include seals), the pilot signal system, built-in delays (you'll almost certainly have let go by the time it starts), and the fact that rainwater is a poor conductor, add up to mean that it's almost impossible to get a conductive path away from one pin to either the other pin or the user once it's plugged in, even if the pilot signal didn't register a short, which it almost certainly would.

I live in the rainy Pacific Northwest and have plugged in a Clarity and a Volt, parked in the open outdoors, in pouring rain many times over the past 3 years without the slightest issue. I usually lean over the port to try and minimize the water that gets in, but that's the only precaution.

An aside regarding built-in safeties, my Siemens Level 2 charger throws an error on my Clarity when a charge starts maybe once every 3 months at random, but I've never even had it do that when it's raining.

 

[2002]

Speaking as an engineer with a fair amount of electrical design experience and a decent degree of familiarity with the J1772 standard, as explained in the documents KentuckyKen cites, it's fine for both you and the car. The worst thing that could possibly happen would be that your charger registers an error; if there is enough conductive liquid in the head to cause a short (either to you or between the two charger pins), it would also short the pilot signal, which would prevent a charge event from beginning.

That would likely only happen if the connector or the port were drenched in salt water. In reality, the combination of the connector design (notice that the wells are extremely deep, fit tightly, and include seals), the pilot signal system, built-in delays (you'll almost certainly have let go by the time it starts), and the fact that rainwater is a poor conductor, add up to mean that it's almost impossible to get a conductive path away from one pin to either the other pin or the user once it's plugged in, even if the pilot signal didn't register a short, which it almost certainly would.

I live in the rainy Pacific Northwest and have plugged in a Clarity and a Volt, parked in the open outdoors, in pouring rain many times over the past 3 years without the slightest issue. I usually lean over the port to try and minimize the water that gets in, but that's the only precaution.

An aside regarding built-in safeties, my Siemens Level 2 charger throws an error on my Clarity when a charge starts maybe once every 3 months at random, but I've never even had it do that when it's raining.

As a reminder this thread turned into two topics, the question about water getting into the charging outlet becoming a shock hazard seems to have received by far the bulk of the attention even though that question was never actually asked by anyone. Nevertheless that question is thoroughly answered now which should be reassuring to anyone who may have had a concern. The only question that I had about water getting into the outlet had to do with potential damage to the EVSE plug or internal charger. Based on the "shock hazard" answers I suppose we can apply that was well to the equipment that it is unlikely to be electrically damaged when wet. Although I would think long term corrosion might be an issue if this happens all the time but that would be only be known from long term studies.

The second question, or actually first question since it was the OP's original question has to do with home outdoor EVSE installation and whether you need to keep the plug sheltered from weather while not in use. This lead to a broader discussion about the safety of plugging in while it is raining, considering that the manual says to only plug in the charger when the cable (and you) are dry. Obviously that could be taken as Honda being overly cautious, but I see it as similar to the manual saying not to use extension cords, most of us assume they say that because many if not most people don't properly use, maintain or select the right extension cords, so it's easier (and more legally safe) for Honda to simply say don't use them. That could be the case here regarding charging in the rain since many people will be using home outdoor electrical outlets or home outdoor EVSE installations. On that topic points were raised (too briefly in my opinion) about things to consider, obvious ones such as keeping connections dry, but also the quality of the connections and the quality of the EVSE and the reputation of the company that makes it.

Regardless of the safety standard inherent in the design of the J1772 outlet, you still will be handling a piece of electrical equipment in the rain which can carry a high amperage charge, and you want to make sure everything is right. In a public charging situation the risk of unsafe equipment or installation is extremely low, but when using an outdoor outlet, or an indoor outlet with extension cords, or a DIY or semi-DIY outdoor installation, and possibly using the lowest cost EVSE found online with no research into company background, I would say maybe think twice about plugging in while it is raining, especially since we are talking about a PHEV where you can easily skip a charge session if needed. But if knowledgeable about electricity and confident that the installation and equipment are in order, then yes it's probably safe to ignore the advice in the manual. That's why I think a blanket answer "sure it's safe to connect or disconnect while it's raining" when the audience and situation isn't known may miss a chance to remind people about the importance of proper and safe installation and equipment, which is true even in dry conditions but especially true when using electrical equipment outdoors in the rain.

 

[fotomoto]

I see that the charger box needs to stay off the ground and be protected from rain, but how about the plug that goes into the car?

Just hang the plug upside down so rain doesn't flow into it while it's not being used. As mention by MM above, the J1772 standard takes things like safely plugging in the rain, standing in water, etc., into account.

 

[M.M.]

The only question that I had about water getting into the outlet had to do with potential damage to the EVSE plug or internal charger.

I thought I had phrased my answer to cover that as well as the personal safety question, but perhaps it wasn't clear enough.

There are two things that could damage the car:

Electrically speaking, there could be a path for current to flow between the two pins of the charger. This would require enough water (and water with some salt in it) in and around the charger to go from the deeply-recessed metal contact, out of the well it sits in, between the two wells, back into the other well, and down to the other deeply-recessed metal contact. It would also require the signal pins to have not shorted out in the same way, which would prevent a charge from even starting. Even if all those conditions were met, the built-in safety on the charger should detect the overcurrent situation and shut down the charger almost immediately.

If all of the above were to happen/fail, it would heat up and melt the plastic in the handle or the car's port, but, basically, the chances thereof are effectively nil.

the other thing is much simpler: Water inside the connector managed to corrode the metal contacts. The contacts usually have corrosion-resistant plating (nickel, for example), to reduce the chance of corrosion of this sort, but it could theoretically happen. This is what I'd be much more cautious about personally, but the mitigation is just not letting much water get in the connector.

I previously hung the L1 charger that came with my Volt upside-down off of a faucet on the outside of the house over an eve, which kept it pretty dry, but I since bought one of these plastic "holster" things to attach to the house, which prevents any water (or bugs!) from getting in and looks a little nicer:
https://www.amazon.com/AmazingE-1001-0015-B-Charging-Wall-Mount-Connector/dp/B072MP3N1Y/

Just to add, for it to be a health hazard, a current path would have to exist between the internal metal contact (either the hot side on a L1 charger or either on an L2), to your hand, and your shoes would also need to have low enough resistance to the ground to form a current path. Basically, you and the charge handle would need to be covered with conductive water, the safeties would have to fail, and you'd need to still be touching it when the charge event started.

The second question, or actually first question since it was the OP's original question has to do with home outdoor EVSE installation and whether you need to keep the plug sheltered from weather while not in use.

I thought the answer to this has been more or less covered by suggestions to keep the plug relatively dry (and the charge door closed), but to state more explicitly, some water is fine but it's good to not let water sit inside it. My solution on the charger side was the above holster.

In a public charging situation the risk of unsafe equipment or installation is extremely low, but when using an outdoor outlet, or an indoor outlet with extension cords, or a DIY or semi-DIY outdoor installation, and possibly using the lowest cost EVSE found online with no research into company background, I would say maybe think twice about plugging in while it is raining, especially since we are talking about a PHEV where you can easily skip a charge session if needed.

The former is debatable (at work we had a L2 charger burn itself up internally due to poor electrical connections), but in any case, as mentioned by others the rest of the charger and the outlet you plug it in to is a completely different matter from the J1772 head.

Don't mess around with those. Period. You'll probably get away with it, but if you don't the cost is high.

A recently-built house is required to have GFI outlets in the garage, which helps from a life-safety standpoint, but even with that you definitely don't want to let the body of the charger or the outlet it's plugged into get wet at all. At best you could break the charger (I don't know that it's weather sealed) and at worst you could set your house on fire due to an overheated outlet. My solution was to plug the L1 charger the car came with into an internal outlet in my garage, string the longer charger cable under a gap beside the garage door, and plug in the car outside, but if you must plug in the charger to an external outlet put it in a location or enclosure in which it can't get wet (also make sure there's enough ventilation it doesn't overheat).

Also, make sure the outlet is in good condition, which it might well not be if you have an older house and it's a garage or outdoor outlet. After the car has been charging for an hour, feel the outlet and the plug and make sure it isn't too warm. If it's hot, you have poor connection and it could set your house on fire eventually. Replace the outlet with a new one--it literally costs like $2.