Pre-Purchase Questions - Cruise Control, Headlamps

[CR EV]

Thanks, @davidtm!

Reviews mention a one-pedal driving mode. Is that true? My salesman figured out how to increase the regen but not to the point that I could stop with the accelerator. That's the strongest point in favor of the Leaf, IMO.

With level 3 regen, the Niro stops pretty quickly when you take your foot off the accelerator...one pedal as far as I am concerned.

One difference between the Leaf and the Niro, a big one for me, is that there is space in the Niro for a spare tire, no option for that in the Leaf...even though the spare is not full size, there is no way I would drive anywhere out side of a city (or preferably not in one) without some spare tire. The run flat can can't deal with a real flat. Get the Niro and get the spare...unless you figure that you're very lucky and that your luck will hold.

 

[TheHellYouSay]

Do you think the wheel feels right because it's FWD? I find the steering to be tight, but not excessively so. I have been driving AWD most of my life, so I can see why you would say the steering feels tight.

I would have to call boosheet on the dealers who said drive mode affects steering.

I've had one good evasive incident where I was going way too fast (80 mph?) and since I was ahead of my headlights, had to brake hard and nudge her to the right. The steering, brakes, and suspension performed well.

 

[David T in Silicon Valley]

If you're coming from another EV with true one-pedal driving, the Niro will be very disappointing. Having to pull and hold the left paddle to stop the car gets old very quickly and is not as precise since it's on on/off affair.

I was reading the Features and Functions guide that came with my 2019 Niro today. Page 12 says

"While one-pedal driving is active, the driver can control the vehicle stopping position using the accelerator". This implies that the deceleration using the paddle in brake and hold position can be modulated by the accelerator. I have not yet tried this. If it is true, I bet a smoother braking experience can be created this way. It does seem a little awkward since I think the foot has to come fully off the accelerator to start the paddle driven Brake and Hold feature in the first place!

With level 3 regen, the Niro stops pretty quickly when you take your foot off the accelerator...one pedal as far as I am concerned.

My 3 days owned Niro does not come to a complete stop in level 3. Feels like once the speed drops to a point, the regen shuts off (though since force will scale with motor rotations, maybe it is a Xeno's paradox kind of thing with force scaling with velocity so it never fully decelerates to 0). I have not yet had the nerve to test it to the limit behind a car stopped at a light, though maybe I will practice at some low traffic intersection or stop sign with my foot covering the brake pedal in case it is needed. I am going to try to stay in the habit of covering the brake pedal when using regen too slow down, in the event something goes wrong.

 

[TheHellYouSay]

I was reading the Features and Functions guide that came with my 2019 Niro today. Page 12 says

"While one-pedal driving is active, the driver can control the vehicle stopping position using the accelerator". This implies that the deceleration using the paddle in brake and hold position can be modulated by the accelerator. I have not yet tried this. If it is true, I bet a smoother braking experience can be created this way. It does seem a little awkward since I think the foot has to come fully off the accelerator to start the paddle driven Brake and Hold feature in the first place!



My 3 days owned Niro does not come to a complete stop in level 3. Feels like once the speed drops to a point, the regen shuts off (though since force will scale with motor rotations, maybe it is a Xeno's paradox kind of thing with force scaling with velocity so it never fully decelerates to 0). I have not yet had the nerve to test it to the limit behind a car stopped at a light, though maybe I will practice at some low traffic intersection or stop sign with my foot covering the brake pedal in case it is needed. I am going to try to stay in the habit of covering the brake pedal when using regen too slow down, in the event something goes wrong.

I haven't read the whole manual yet and it's actually not the best owner's manual I've ever been given, but essentially you want to pull back on the left paddle, just lay on it hard and the car will stop. Obviously practice it when you're the first car to the stoplight. To prevent the idle creep that's been programmed into it, you have to engage Auto Stop or Stop Hold or whatever that button says that's just to the lower left of the shifter knob. I personally don't understand what the thrill is with one pedal driving, I grew up with brake pedals, I like brake pedals. I do enjoy using the regen like a downshift though. It makes sense not to use the brakes any more than necessary since that's about the only thing I think I'll have to fork over $ on maintenance for - maybe an occasional fluid flush. And it's nice every once in a while to see the range gauge go UP instead of down.

 

[David T in Silicon Valley]

I like brake pedals too, and plan to cover it when my foot is not doing something else! After all the regen braking could suddenly vanish in the unlikely event of the loss of electrical connectivity between major components, or some malicious UVO borne hack.

What I care most about is conserving power. So, the more regen braking (and the more coasting in neutral when coming up on a red light that is far away) the better! Now, why I can't fade between regen and mechanical brakes all using the brake pedal, I do not know, but I suspect there is some safety reason or a trade between different implementations with impacts I am unaware of (systems engineering).

 

[TheHellYouSay]

I've found that when I leave it in Eco mode, the regen kicks in nicely. If I simply take my foot off the gas when I'm approaching the stop light, the car will slow down automatically and give me 2 bars on the regen meter. If there is a car in my lane, stopped at the stop light, it will slow down more drastically (with regen braking set to Auto), but I still end up tapping the brakes to avoid hitting the car in front of me.

Now, why I can't fade between regen and mechanical brakes all using the brake pedal, I do not know, but I suspect there is some safety reason or a trade between different implementations with impacts I am unaware of (systems engineering).

Not sure I understand this part. When I end up coming into a corner too hot and hit the brakes hard, the dash still shows me recouping energy with regen, so it does seem to me that the mechanical brakes and regen are working in harmony.

 

[David T in Silicon Valley]

The regen does kick in as you say, and quite firmly, but it is binary (either on or off) but if I am trying to regen and stop at a particular position, I need to not start it too soon so I don't stop car lengths short of the car ahead.

When I end up coming into a corner too hot and hit the brakes hard, the dash still shows me recouping energy with regen, so it does seem to me that the mechanical brakes and regen are working in harmony.

Could be that the regen kicks in when the accelerator comes up as you move your foot to the brake pedal, and the mechanical brakes are also turning momentum into heat at the same time. I did try the accelerator with the brake and hold function of the left paddle. It did make it much easier to modulate the deceleration. What is going on between sending power to the motor and using the motor to regen is unknown, but my understanding of physics suggests that both can't happen at the same time.

 

[TheHellYouSay]

I've had my Niro for a little better than 3 months and I think I have it all figured out, but it's all quite impressive. For example, I've only driven a few times in cruise control, but having the car help with the steering is both comforting and creepy all at the same time.

My experience is different, it doesn't seem binary at all, it always seems to be reacting to the distance of objects that I am approaching, even when I'm not using cruise control. I was surprised that the Smart Regenerative System was turned off by default, but somewhere in the menus, I finally figured out how to turn it on. The blurb below is from a PDF document I downloaded from the UVO site titled Niro EV Features & Functions Guide. As I reread it again, I didn't realize that bullet point #2 has happened a few times quite by accident, but now I see the key is a very fast pull versus a slow one. This documentation doesn't speak to whether you need the Hold mode engaged to do one-pedal driving, but I suspect you might?

Brake and Hold System
The Brake and Hold System (one-pedal driving) increases the regenerative braking amount to above level 3 and enables you to come to a full stop by pulling down the left paddle.
• Pull and hold the left paddle shifter while coasting
• When the vehicle speed is above 1.9 mph, release the left paddle shifter for less than 0.5 seconds to return to the previously set level of regenerative braking
• When the vehicle speed is below 1.9 mph, the brake and hold system stops the vehicle even though the left paddle shifter is released
• While one-pedal driving is active, the driver can control the vehicle stopping position using the accelerator pedal
REMINDER: The driver's seat belt must be fastened to operate one-pedal driving.
Do not solely rely on one-pedal driving to Stop the vehicle, as it may not be able to Stop the vehicle depending on vehicle and road conditions. Pay attention to the road condition ahead and apply the brake if necessary.

Smart Regeneration System
This system automatically adjusts the regenerative braking level based on a vehicle being detected in front of the Niro EV.
Activate Smart Regeneration in the User Settings mode. AUTO will be displayed on the instrument cluster. AUTO regenerative brake adjusts regenerative braking based on the distance with the vehicle in front and its speed
Pull and hold the right paddle shifter for more than 1 second to turn on/off the automatic change of the regenerative braking

Smart Regeneration is supplemental system for the drivers convenience. Do not solely rely on this system to stop the vehicle or avoid collisions. Always cautiously look ahead to prevent unexpected or sudden situations.
For more information on regenerative braking, one-pedal driving or the Smart Regeneration System, please refer to your Owners Manual.

 

[David T in Silicon Valley]

I've had my Niro for a little better than 3 months and I think I have it all figured out, but it's all quite impressive. For example, I've only driven a few times in cruise control, but having the car help with the steering is both comforting and creepy all at the same time.
....
Smart Regeneration System
This system automatically adjusts the regenerative braking level based on a vehicle being detected in front of the Niro EV.

I have been keeping it in smart mode, but I suppose I have not fully trusted it and have been using one-pedal while it is engaged. You have been using it a lot it seems, so question: if I have smart regen on, and am coming up behind vehicles stopped at a light (and the Auto indicator is blue, meaning the sensor suite believes it knows what is going on) will my car just slow on its own, regardless of what I am doing with the accelerator ? How will I know when the regen is kicking in so I can ease off the accelerator and start to cover the brake in the event something goes south?

Level 1-2 self-driving is going to take some getting used to. This borderlands place between trusting the computer and sensors, but still being ready to intervene is indeed a little scary/creepy.

someone somewhere in the Niro forum was complaining that the one-pedal deceleration mode was binary. With what I learned yesterday about using the accelerator (the 4th bullet excerpted from the Functions Guide by TheHellYouSay) I disagree. It sounds like the the smart regen system is even more hands-off.

 

[CR EV]

I'm deciding between a Leaf and a Niro EV EX Premium, and have some questions.

Using the adaptive cruise control and lane keeping, will the car drive in stop-and-go freeway traffic essentially by itself, or does the driver need to steer and/or intervene? How well does it work?

It looks like there is no high beam assist, correct?

And I think there were LED headlights available in a Launch Package which is no longer around, correct? The website says it has projector headlamps. Is that just less efficient, or is one or the other brighter?

Stop and go cruise works really well...

One killer feature of the Niro, not available on the Leaf: a place for a spare tire. That sold it for me...and I got the spare. The idea of having a blowout with nothing but a can of tire filler to get you back on the road is unacceptable...if you haven't had a bad blowout, give it time, you will...

 

[David T in Silicon Valley]

Yes, I want a spare too and am mystified that spareless is a more and more common standard in new vehicles of all flavors of powerplants. Thanks for pointing out there is room for a spare. I was thinking about the bulky styrofoam insert and wondering if I could get one in there.


Well, I have been using the Smart Regen feature (that is when the little battery symbol with the arrows says auto, right? And it is engaged when it is blue instead of white, right?). I did notice approaching a stoplight with my foot off the accelerator it slows with less deceleration than it would if it was not in auto...but the car does NOT stop. I tested at a quiet intersection or two with no stop sign last night and it will decelerate full bore...to a point and then just keep on cruising at 5-6 mph no matter what my regen setting is.

In Smart regen even with the symbol blue, it does this at traffic lights behind cars. At least four times I took my foot off the accelerator, enjoyed a sensible less-than-three-arrows deceleration somewhat matching what was going on ahead of me but never stopped and ended up using the brake. In two memorable occasions when I was nervy, I got to the point of the collision warning beeping at me and then I slammed on the brake stopping just a foot or so behind the next vehicle . I am pretty sure I would have hit them if I let Smart Regen do its thing. Isn't Smart Regen supposed to stop if the car ahead stops?

 

[RDA]

OK, once and for all. The car DOES NOT STOP on its' own. You either need to use the brake pedal or press the Auto Hold button to turn auto hold on and use the left regen paddle to stop the car. With auto hold on you can pull the left regen paddle and the car will stop and stay. To move again press the accelerator pedal. If you have to have a car that stops on its' own, buy a Tesla.

 

[David T in Silicon Valley]

I personally don't understand what the thrill is with one pedal driving, I grew up with brake pedals, I like brake pedals... And it's nice every once in a while to see the range gauge go UP instead of down.

I suppose I am a bit of a hyper miler. As a gas driver I was being super concerned about carbon and doing what I can to boost it, like coasting in neutral where I can, slowing just enough so I coasting to lights whose timing I know so it goes green right as I reach the intersection, keeping highway speed low, I am looking for maximizing efficiency. So, I prefer to stop by putting the energy into regen.

What I was writing about up there was my concern that the auto feature is not behaving like I thought I read it about it behaving; autonomous control that slows (And presumably stops) the car in traffic the way I do. When mine was not stopping, I wondered if there was some setting to tweak so it would stop on its own at traffic lights and I was confirming that the behavior I am experiencing was unusual. It sounds like you do not expect that.

One thing I learned today is my auto feature is blue when there is a car between about 20 and 100 or maybe 120 feet ahead of me. Closer than one car length and it goes white (*) and further it is white too (probably a weak return signal).

(*) Perhaps radar confusion because of a strong signal, or maybe there are multiple sensors looking in different directions and when there is not a big enough difference between them (say, they are all seeing the back of the car ahead) it assumes there is something wrong and disengages.

 

[TheHellYouSay]

I suppose I am a bit of a hyper miler. As a gas driver I was being super concerned about carbon and doing what I can to boost it, like coasting in neutral where I can, slowing just enough so I coasting to lights whose timing I know so it goes green right as I reach the intersection, keeping highway speed low, I am looking for maximizing efficiency. So, I prefer to stop by putting the energy into regen.

I'm of Scotch/Welsh heritage, so I like to save money whenever possible. I may not be a hyper miler, but I did own a VW TDI for the benefits of saving money with diesel and 45 MPG. I think it just makes sense to coast where you can because it saves on the maintenance of brake pads, which again fulfills my desire to find thriftiness. The one thing that was confusing to me was that I was still getting regen when I am on the gas pedal, like when going downhill. In my mind, until I started learning more about EVs, regen=braking and so it felt "wrong" to see it happening when I wanted to speed up a little bit while going downhill. I wondered if I was wearing out the regen by accelerating against it, similar to a driver that leaves their left foot on the brakes while driving, which would create more wear & tear in the braking system.

I am not sure it registered with me that my Auto Regen indicator was turning colors, I'll have to watch for that now. I think as RDA said, if you want fully autonomous driver assist, you'll have to buy a Tesla. Maybe a Leaf can do it too, I don't know?

 

[niro525]

@DavidT Regen breaking does not auto stop the car in stop and go traffic.


Smart Cruise Control (SCC) slows and stops the car in stop and go traffic or at a light. Little scary at how precise it is at stopping.

 

[Robert Lewis]

Smart Cruise Control (SCC) slows and stops the car in stop and go traffic or at a light. Little scary at how precise it is at stopping.

In my experience, smart cruise control does not stop the car at a light unless there is a car ahead of you. It has never sensed a red light and stopped the car if I'm the front car approaching the light.

 

[niro525]

In my experience, smart cruise control does not stop the car at a light unless there is a car ahead of you. It has never sensed a red light and stopped the car if I'm the front car approaching the light.

Thank you for the correction. Your experience is mine as well. I didn't convey how SCC works very well by neglecting to mention the Niro only stops when it seems a stopped vehicle in front of it while SCC is active.

 

[David T in Silicon Valley]

Hmm....I have not counted on SCC to stop completely, always pulling the paddle as I get close. I will start trying that. So, when still engaged, I am guessing SCC will start moving again once the car ahead goes? Does SCC apply the brake, regen or both as needed?

 

[niro525]

Relying on SCC to slow down or stop feels real unnerving. The stopping distance is so precise it is uncomfortable. I kept my foot hovering over the brake if SCC slows or comes to a stop just in case.

SCC will move the car forward once the stopped car in front moves forward. If the car in front is stopped greater than a specific duration (30 secs?), then a notification will pop up asking for the accelerator needing to be pressed in order to continue.

I'm not sure which brake is applied during slowdowns.

Other than that, KIA did a great job at making SCC feel like a comfortable ride.

 

[Robert Lewis]

Hmm....I have not counted on SCC to stop completely, always pulling the paddle as I get close. I will start trying that. So, when still engaged, I am guessing SCC will start moving again once the car ahead goes? Does SCC apply the brake, regen or both as needed?

From my experience, the left paddle is not active when SCC is engaged. In fact, I get an error message on the middle screen saying something to the effect of, "This feature not available when cruise control is active." So, I'm guessing that if your car is slowing to a stop when SCC is on, it's not the left paddle that's doing it - it's the SCC.

SCC will move the car forward once the stopped car in front moves forward. If the car in front is stopped greater than a specific duration (30 secs?), then a notification will pop up asking for the accelerator needing to be pressed in order to continue.

Once the car stops using SCC, if the car is stopped more than 3 seconds, you have to gently touch the accelerator to get the car moving again. However, after touching the accelerator, SCC kicks right back in.