Power System Error + Check Engine Light + Sudden Battery Charge Drop

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descolado

Member
Hey guys,

Been a while. Checking in as I have experienced my first major mechanical issue with my '18 with 70k miles.

Two days ago had the car on 240v charger and got the battery charged up to a little less than half, maybe 25 miles of range. No issues that day.

The next day, the power system light is off but the vehicle check engine light is on. I take the car onto the highway and my EV battery range drops from 14 miles to 0, and the engine high rev immediately starts kicking in to presumably charge the battery. At this point, I'm losing engine power, and the car is struggling to maintain ~60mp/h.

Today I'm at the Honda dealership and was quoted $165 for an inspection. The service rep made a point to also inform me that my vehicle is out of warranty (didn't opt for extended coverage), but my understanding is the Honda Clarity comes with a 10 year, 100k mi warranty for the vehicle's electrical system...fingers crossed this issue (if it requires a repair) is covered.

Will update the thread as I learn more about the underlying issue and diagnostics from the techs.
 
Update:

Back home from Honda now, they informed me I'm getting a new battery pack as the error mine threw shows indication of early battery deterioration.

The rep quoted 7K for the battery pack alone. Thank God this is covered by the electrical warranty, as I would sooner get rid of the car than pay that.

Here are the codes they pulled from my computer, for reference:


P0a7f - Error code clarity battery deterioration.


Additional codes not specified:

P1447

P144a
 
Likely a bad cell. At least one other owner had the same issue. The fix as you now know, is to replace the entire battery.
 
It’s always a challenge to know what Honda is up to. I have a hunch that they aren’t salvaging used batteries.
 
descolado said:
The next day, the power system light is off but the vehicle check engine light is on. I take the car onto the highway and my EV battery range drops from 14 miles to 0, and the engine high rev immediately starts kicking in to presumably charge the battery. At this point, I'm losing engine power, and the car is struggling to maintain ~60mp/h
Click to expand...

AngryBees! <kidding>

I experienced similar behavior when the original battery in an older Prius died. Turtle mode=engine only

It's nearly a given that one (or two) modules failed while the remainder of the pack is still fine. After warranties begin ending fleet wide, finding places/dealers that will repair/replace the bad module(s) will become a thing. How difficult/labor intensive pack removal is will be an important factor too.
 
fotomoto said:
After warranties begin ending fleet wide, finding places/dealers that will repair/replace the bad module(s) will become a thing. How difficult/labor intensive pack removal is will be an important factor too.
Click to expand...

Going by current prices, how many owners would spend $7,000 to have 15 year old battery technology installed in a 10+ year old car?
 
Landshark said:
Going by current prices,
Click to expand...

This.

Can't answer the hypothetical but past experience has shown battery prices do drop (often a lot) over time.

Another thing to consider, a new pack means "like new" performance again in terms of acceleration, power, range, etc so its bang-4-buck is higher than other types of expensive repairs like electronics, a/c, transmissions, sunroof, etc. IOW, this type of repair makes more sense/cents for the owner. Folks that face a new ICE replacement fall into this category too. Lots of prius owners are facing that right now as that high miles gen 3 engines are showing a propensity of grenading due to a lack of maintenance of the emissions systems. Now an owner could buy a new engine for $12,000 or replace with a used one for $1,500. What do you think most do?

Personal example: 2006 prius battery failure 5 years ago. $4,000 quotes. Found 3rd party would do OEM for $2200 installed. Last year, sold vehicle for approx. $1500 more than others in similar condition to a savvy buyer the first day it was for sale. YMMV. Back to the present, OEM prices are now down to $1900 and $1650 for new aftermarket (chinese cells) while some dealers will still fish for $4,000 sales.
 
fotomoto said:
Another thing to consider, a new pack means "like new" performance again in terms of acceleration, power, range, etc so its bang-4-buck is higher than other types of expensive repairs like electronics,
Click to expand...

A “new” pack may mean that it simply surpasses minimum capacity standards. That’s anything over ~36Ah’s.

Right now, I’d speculate that the $7K dealer installed modules are new factory units with ~55Ah’s of capacity and the warranty will remain at 8-10 years from the original date of purchase. How much capacity will there be in a post warranty, 3rd party discount battery with a 90-day or 12-month warranty?

I know, it’s an unanswerable hypothetical.

When a post warranty battery failure occurs, each owner will need to make an individual decision on how to proceed. The “bang-4-buck” theory is only good until another failure occurs. That could be day 91 or day 366. Any out of pocket expense for a battery replacement is a gamble.
 
Like many here, I really like the Clarity so if I need a new battery pack under warranty at 70K miles that would be fine. Each person's situation and expectations are a bit different, but the calculation I did when I bought Clarity was to assume it would be my car for at least 10 years. Now if that ends up being 16 years like my last car, cool. But I'd be disappointed with anything less than 10. It's also part of why I bought the 8 year warranty (the longest duration I could). I realized it was a low-volume boutique car and didn't want any issues finding parts (or paying unreasonably high price for parts) during most of those years.

So yeah, the expectations will vary a lot, i.e. own vs. lease, plan to drive until wheels come off, vs. someone who buys a new car every 3 years etc.
If you know you want to drive Clarity as long as possible, getting a new battery pack without cost is a decent deal.
 
Dan Albrich said:
If you know you want to drive Clarity as long as possible, getting a new battery pack without cost is a decent deal.
Click to expand...

I’m in the same boat. A no cost replacement battery under warranty is a no-brainer. It’s the post-warranty replacement with an out of pocket expense that would demand careful consideration.
 
MrFixit said:
Interesting experience. Sounds like Honda will be doing the right thing for you.
Just curious whether you had any hints of developing issues before yesterday?
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None whatsoever. She ran great, charged her one evening and then the error tripped.

What's interesting is since the dealer reset the warnings I haven't had any issues.

Granted, I haven't fully charged my vehicle yet so I don't know if it will trip again on a full charge... Or is the Clarity smart enough to ignore bad cells and keep puttering along?

Service rep basically said my car is only using half the battery array.
 
descolado said:
Service rep basically said my car is only using half the battery array.
Click to expand...
If you are very technically inclined (and interested), you may have fun gearing up to obtain the battery capacity yourself.

While you still have the 'bad' unit, you could query a lot of information. There are 168 individual cells in the HV battery. They are organized as two "Banks" of 84 cells in series (hence a nonimal voltage of 84 * 3.7 = 310V). The Battery Capacity is reported for each "Bank", so it may be that one of your banks would show good, and the other would show bad. It is possible to read out the voltage of every one of the 168 cells individually.

I know that it is a rare bird who has this level of technical interest, but if you are one of these birds, this thread will tell you how to do it !!
https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/budget-battery-capacity-readout.10531/
 
descolado said:
Granted, I haven't fully charged my vehicle yet so I don't know if it will trip again on a full charge... Or is the Clarity smart enough to ignore bad cells and keep puttering along?
Click to expand...

Did the service tech advise against fully charging the battery? If not, charge it up and measure your actual range.

Battery A and battery B can be measured separately and individual cells can be measured as well. I do not know if the vehicle is capable of isolating A or B while in operation.
 
MrFixit said:
If you are very technically inclined (and interested), you may have fun gearing up to obtain the battery capacity yourself.

While you still have the 'bad' unit, you could query a lot of information. There are 168 individual cells in the HV battery. They are organized as two "Banks" of 84 cells in series (hence a nonimal voltage of 84 * 3.7 = 310V). The Battery Capacity is reported for each "Bank", so it may be that one of your banks would show good, and the other would show bad. It is possible to read out the voltage of every one of the 168 cells individually.

I know that it is a rare bird who has this level of technical interest, but if you are one of these birds, this thread will tell you how to do it !!
https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/budget-battery-capacity-readout.10531/
Click to expand...
I'll take a crack at it, but the link to the BLE 4 OBD2 adapter didn't work from your initial post. Can you share the latest Amazon please? Thanks!
 
descolado said:
What's interesting is since the dealer reset the warnings I haven't had any issues.
Click to expand...

Spoke too soon. Had approx 5 miles of EV range today and upon powering up my vehicle the battery reported zero bars and the engine high rev "angry bees" kicked in for most of my 6 mile drive back home.

Right now I have ALL of the dash warnings going off, including the power system. Can't use any of the cruise control, safety, LKAS, etc. features since the car is error locked.

Might reset the battery just to gain another day or two of a quiet dash and these features. For the gentleman who asked earlier and I forgot to reply to, the Honda Service Rep basically said the car is safe to drive as-is.

Of course, we bought these cars as highly efficient tech-forward purchases from Honda...so please please please be warned if you have a battery issue most of the car's best features will be unavailable.

Fingers crossed I'll get the battery swapped in a week or two, as driving the car right now doesn't feel very reliable. And that's a damn shame.
 
descolado said:
For the gentleman who asked earlier and I forgot to reply to, the Honda Service Rep basically said the car is safe to drive as-is.
Click to expand...

That may have been me. I asked if they advised against fully charging the battery.

From your description, the car appears to be behaving as if it is operating with no battery, rather than half the battery, as the service tech stated. I was hesitant to jump on yet another service tech for making questionable statements about the operation of the car, but I now question that statement made by the tech.
 
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