Perfect Red light Sleeper?

Puppethead said:
That poses a philosophical question: does FWD make sense in an EV world? FWD was created for smaller drivetrain and less weight. But those constraints don't apply to BEVs.
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I don't believe it does.

FWD has many disadvantages and not a lot of benefits in an EV and it seems like manufacturers are coming to the same conclusion with their new EV designs (Honda E, Tesla, VW ID3/ID4)
  • Turning radius: significantly better with RWD due to no front axles (see Honda E)
  • Driving dynamics/fun: better with RWD (weight balance, acceleration, response to power while cornering, no torque steer)
  • Tire wear: better with RWD (shared duty between front and rear tires)
  • Safety/slippery conditions: negligible difference with improved electric motor traction control
  • Cost/packaging: negligible difference with dedicated EV chassis and flexibility of small electric motors
  • Efficiency: negligible difference (unlike with ICE, drivetrain losses are the same)
 
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Carsten Haase said:
I don't believe it does.

FWD has many of disadvantages and not a lot of benefits in an EV and it seems like manufacturers are coming to the same conclusion with their new EV designs (Honda E, Tesla, VW ID3/ID4)
  • Turning radius: significantly better with RWD due to no front axles (see Honda E)
  • Driving dynamics/fun: better with RWD (weight balance, acceleration, response to power while cornering, no torque steer)
  • Tire wear: better with RWD (shared duty between front and rear tires)
  • Safety/slippery conditions: negligible difference with improved electric motor traction control
  • Cost/packaging: negligible difference with dedicated EV chassis and flexibility of small electric motors
  • Efficiency: negligible difference (unlike with ICE, drivetrain losses are the same)
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Agree with all these points. The only dynamic advantage I could come up is during regenerative braking, braking is better applied to the front tires due to the laws of physics. The car applies more weight over the front tires during deceleration hence applying more braking force to the front tires.

I think the ID4 comes with drums in the rear due to the regenerative breaking being applied from the rear motor. I think that setup would have owners going through front brake pads faster than the Mini will.
 
Luis Hoffer said:
Agree with all these points. The only dynamic advantage I could come up is during regenerative braking, braking is better applied to the front tires due to the laws of physics. The car applies more weight over the front tires during deceleration hence applying more braking force to the front tires.

I think the ID4 comes with drums in the rear due to the regenerative breaking being applied from the rear motor. I think that setup would have owners going through front brake pads faster than the Mini will.
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In theory, yes regen in the front can be stronger but is it actually in practice? I don't think any EV has regen strong enough to come close to the limit of tire grip. It was a while ago but I remember the RWD Model 3 I test drove had similar regen strength to the MINI.
 
Carsten Haase said:
Driving dynamics/fun: better with RWD (weight balance, acceleration, response to power while cornering, no torque steer)
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Not sure about the weight-balance point, with batteries basically comprising the "floor" of the vehicle the weight distribution is nothing like ICE vehicles. Sure there's slight imbalance caused by acceleration, but it's nothing like balancing against a heavy engine in the front.
 
Puppethead said:
Not sure about the weight-balance point, with batteries basically comprising the "floor" of the vehicle the weight distribution is nothing like ICE vehicles. Sure there's slight imbalance caused by acceleration, but it's nothing like balancing against a heavy engine in the front.
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That's true, I guess I was thinking more about the SE type layout with all the junk under the hood but that doesn't necessarily need to be the case.
 
Jim In Tucson said:
Since the SE is powered be an i3 motor in the front, could a 2nd i3 motor be located in the rear of an SE so all 4 wheels would be powered. Then fill up the backseat space with batteries, and voila a MINI SE GP. I want one!!!
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Then, after beefing up the suspension and cooling system to accommodate the extra batteries and the second motor, installing wider rims and tires and adding fender flares to maintain the kartiness, you'll have a really quick 4,000-lb electric MINI Cooper Hardtop.
 
Yeah, weight was why I'd settle for RWD. With the advanced traction control electric allows, I'm not sure AWD is necessary, anymore.
 
F14Scott said:
For a little thread drift, who would opt for a MINI SE with no rear seats, but RWD and 200 miles of range? I think there's plenty of room for an aft motor and more batteries under the hood without the useless rear seats, and I've grown to love my permanently flat hatch area.
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Did you take the seats out? I'm thinking about pulling mine out and making a flat panel like I did in my R53.
 
LloydMats dot com makes a very nice cargo bay mat for the rear hatch area, and a matching mat for the back side of the folded down rear seats. It makes a very nice flat full-size hatch cargo area that is actually quite large. And, the rear seats are still retained if needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
 
chrunck said:
Did you take the seats out? I'm thinking about pulling mine out and making a flat panel like I did in my R53.
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I find the rear seats lay flat (must remove headrests) and I just put an EVA foam pad across the entire back for a level surface.
 
F14Scott said:
Yeah, weight was why I'd settle for RWD. With the advanced traction control electric allows, I'm not sure AWD is necessary, anymore.
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yeah. of course i wanted a RWD car. But my mom like the MINI. which she now regrets as she finds it hard to get out of. haha.
Anyway. smoked a MINI cooper at the light today. I didn’t know what that MINI driver was thinking trying to beat a SE to legal speed limit.
 
insightman said:
If people were clamoring for hot hatches instead of pickups, SUVs, and crossovers, there would be more hot hatches. No manufacturer with a presence in the U.S. market has even hinted they might consider making a new hot hatch, much less a hot EV hatch.

The one possible upcoming hot EV hatch is the rumored Tesla Model 2 (which will definitely NOT be called the "Model 2," according to Elon). Here are a few renderings from people who would love to work for Tesla:

View attachment 14458

Would MINI dare release a new Chinese SE that's less hot than our SE's? It would be a disaster--especially for those holding their breath (and pocketbooks) waiting for the next-gen SE.
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the first one look like a Mercedes A hatch. second looks like a Bolt. I am saving for a Taycan. But leaning towards waiting for better Porsche Tech one. If they have a porsche EV Boxter, i wonder if it’s insurance will be higher than Taycan.
 
Smart Wannabe said:
the first one look like a Mercedes A hatch. second looks like a Bolt. I am saving for a Taycan. But leaning towards waiting for better Porsche Tech one. If they have a porsche EV Boxter, i wonder if it’s insurance will be higher than Taycan.
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My convertibles were always more expensive to insure, so I assume insuring the Boxster EV would be more expensive than the Taycan. However, a Boxster EV would be so much more fun than a Taycan that it would be worth the extra premiums. I can't wait to see if Porsche decides weight or range is more important with the Boxster EV. I'm so glad MINI prioritized weight.
 
insightman said:
My convertibles were always more expensive to insure, so I assume insuring the Boxster EV would be more expensive than the Taycan. However, a Boxster EV would be so much more fun than a Taycan that it would be worth the extra premiums. I can't wait to see if Porsche decides weight or range is more important with the Boxster EV. I'm so glad MINI prioritized weight.
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I agree. If the Boxster EV is not better in every way than the ICE (aside for sound and road trip ability), then IMO it will be a bit of a failure. 200 miles with super fast 800v charging should be plenty.
 
insightman said:
My convertibles were always more expensive to insure, so I assume insuring the Boxster EV would be more expensive than the Taycan. However, a Boxster EV would be so much more fun than a Taycan that it would be worth the extra premiums. I can't wait to see if Porsche decides weight or range is more important with the Boxster EV. I'm so glad MINI prioritized weight.
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I definite need the range. one flaw with my SE is that i can’t be sure that it can go north to driving roads and back about 250km round trip in one go without recharge. i don’t want to get stranded.
 
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