Planning to meet th
Hopefully Ron is there Friday and I think we should still meet. As you said we can exchange contact information and notes. Others please feel free to join us. It’s 14k and I sure will give it my best efforts. Till Friday
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Ontario owners: how long does it take to receive the government rebate?
- Thread starter bigbug
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Planning to meet th
Hopefully Ron is there Friday and I think we should still meet. As you said we can exchange contact information and notes. Others please feel free to join us. It’s 14k and I sure will give it my best efforts. Till Friday
Planning to meet th
Hopefully Ron is there Friday and I think we should still meet. As you said we can exchange contact information and notes. Others please feel free to join us. It’s 14k and I sure will give it my best efforts. Till Friday
We are unable to join tomorrow. We will call the Plug n Drive centre to pass along our contact info in the morning. Or, feel free to direct message me on Twitter @fordowesme14k
====I have submitted a Freedom of Information request to the MTO requesting copies of any communication that was sent by the Ministry of Transportation to Car Manufacturers and/or dealers in Ontario with respect to the EVHIP program between July 11th and 13th. I have also requested any records or notes/details collected about my phone calls with the ministry of finance (on July 12 and 13th we were assured it was eligible even though it was being purchased out of province). According to the ministry FOI website, they have 30 days to process the request. I sent it on April 16th. We have a Chevy Bolt, purchased on July 13th, 2018 in Quebec.
HI! Did you get any chance getting the communications from the MTO- We have bought a Hyundai Ioniq and our dealer said their representative from Hyundai Canada have not been able to find any trace of communication from the MTO about this....
It seems I’ve missed a lot in the last few days having not checked this forum! Did any of my fellow Yorkdale customers end up meeting, and if so did anything come of it? I’ve spoken to Florin twice now, and I’m of the same opinion as others here, that is to say he’s doing his best to ignore us and hope that we go away. He told me that he personally had submitted the list to the MTO in time, but that he was unable to provide them with proof in the form of a time stamp. He also said that it has now been escalated and VW Canada is dealing with it. As far as I can tell, having spoken to VW Canada, this is a straight up lie. I’ve tried calling him twice this week, with no response on his end. I also asked him to provide me with redacted proof that my vehicle specifically was on the list, and he said he’d send me an email containing this info. Two weeks later, no reply.
Rivek_egolfowner
New Member
Myself, Kevin btw, Suzanne, and MrJ met. Ron Groves was there and was very helpful in suggesting websites to engage with, to spread the word, and to recruit other EV owners who also received denial letters. His message - particularly for VW egolf owners - is get the word out. Let the head office know that this unacceptable. Essentially make it a PR problem - a PR nightmare. VW Canada is just getting over the diesel gate scandal, so to have more mud flung in their faces is not good for business. He's suggesting trying to get the ear of the higher-ups at VW Canada, for example at the VP level. Speaking to reps on the phone or sending emails to the 'Contact Us' address is not going to get us where we need to be. Suzanne mentioned that she'll be calling VW Canada and I plan on doing the same. I'm going to demand that I speak with an executive.
At the dealership level, there wasn't much new. The 3 of us shared details of our conversations with Florin, and it was interesting to hear the versions. My last conversation with him was respectful and he sounded sincere when he told me that VW Yorkdale, and in fact VW Canada, are working on this issue with the MTO. He gave me the impression that it is the MTO that who is dragging this out. I can believe that, but it also could have simply been a smokescreen. On the other hand, Suzanne and MrJ both asked Florin for copies of the email sent to the MTO with all our VINs and in both cases Florin said he couldn't produce it because of IT issues. I think most people would consider that answer B.S., and that's what gets me and most of Yorkdale VW customers riled up. I interpret that as we-dropped-the-ball. Everytime I've contacted Yorkdale VW they insist that our VINs were on the list, but why can't anyone produce the document. And when I talked to the Umbudsman's office he tells me if my VIN was indeed on the list it should be a relatively simple clerical error to correct - so why hasn't it been corrected yet, and why don't I have my 14K?
That brings up another point: the 3 of us, and i'm sure other Yorkdale VW customers agree, the lack of a communication plan to the affected egolf customers was disgraceful. Certainly yes, the denial letter clearly said contact your dealership. So the ball was in our court, and we all contacted the dealership separately. But by the Monday morning after the denial letters arrived the alarm bells were ringing at Yorkdale VW (and I would guess at VW Canada as well) and they should have reacted with a letter to all their affected customers. They know who we are and it's common courtesy to give us updates and tell us what they're doing, rather than us having to contact them. Sure Filip returned my emails and calls, but not once did he initiate the contact, and I certainly never heard from Florin. I didn't even know he existed until last week when Filip gave me his title and contact info.
As for the MTO. I don't think that should be our focus - we don't have the resources yet to get their attention. But Yorkdale VW and certainly VW Canada could get the MTOs attention, so WE need to get the attention of Yorkdale VW and VW Canada.
Where does this leave us:
Ron suggested that we start a Facebook page to reach out to other affected customers, regardless of brand, that includes contacting other EV facebook pages. MrJ mentioned that he moderately threaten legal action to Yorkdale VW and his 30 day ultimatum is up next week. MrJ said he would contact us about Yorkdale VWs response.
Suzanne and I are relatively patient and we're going to give Yorkdale VW a bit longer to sort this out. In the meantime we're both planning on calling VW Canada to speak to some one as high-up as we can go. Again for me it's 14K and I'm willing to burn a vacation day or two to drive to their head office in person and get some information: 777 Bayly St W, Ajax, ON L1S 7G7.
A few more bits: so in reviewing my sales documents I was probably one of the last if not the last Yorkdale VW customers to pick up their egolf prior to the customer incentive deadline on Sep 11. I signed on the dotted line on Sep. 4th, 2018. That means, for me at least, if Yorkdale VW knew that my car was not on the list back on July 16th - the dealership list deadline, then they completely misrepresented themselves by claiming that I would receive a rebate and waving that carrot in front of me so I would buy the car. If in the end I need to go to small claims court, I will be using that as my primary argument - misrepresentation - basically a bait and switch.
I asked Ron when do dealerships actually get the VIN numbers. I was curious because if I pick-up my car so late in the game - it was literally being transported across the Atlantic when all this was coming to a head - then perhaps the dealership didn't have my VIN, and couldn't possibly have had it in on time. But, Ron said VW Canada would have all the VINs - approx 1400 egolfs sold across Canada in 2018, and that they would know months in advance about the VINs. That's somewhat positive - my car was ordered in Nov 2017 so surely VW Canada had the VIN for my car well before it even when into production.
As Ron said, it seems in this day and age the only way to get corporations to respond is to hold their feet to the fire.
At the dealership level, there wasn't much new. The 3 of us shared details of our conversations with Florin, and it was interesting to hear the versions. My last conversation with him was respectful and he sounded sincere when he told me that VW Yorkdale, and in fact VW Canada, are working on this issue with the MTO. He gave me the impression that it is the MTO that who is dragging this out. I can believe that, but it also could have simply been a smokescreen. On the other hand, Suzanne and MrJ both asked Florin for copies of the email sent to the MTO with all our VINs and in both cases Florin said he couldn't produce it because of IT issues. I think most people would consider that answer B.S., and that's what gets me and most of Yorkdale VW customers riled up. I interpret that as we-dropped-the-ball. Everytime I've contacted Yorkdale VW they insist that our VINs were on the list, but why can't anyone produce the document. And when I talked to the Umbudsman's office he tells me if my VIN was indeed on the list it should be a relatively simple clerical error to correct - so why hasn't it been corrected yet, and why don't I have my 14K?
That brings up another point: the 3 of us, and i'm sure other Yorkdale VW customers agree, the lack of a communication plan to the affected egolf customers was disgraceful. Certainly yes, the denial letter clearly said contact your dealership. So the ball was in our court, and we all contacted the dealership separately. But by the Monday morning after the denial letters arrived the alarm bells were ringing at Yorkdale VW (and I would guess at VW Canada as well) and they should have reacted with a letter to all their affected customers. They know who we are and it's common courtesy to give us updates and tell us what they're doing, rather than us having to contact them. Sure Filip returned my emails and calls, but not once did he initiate the contact, and I certainly never heard from Florin. I didn't even know he existed until last week when Filip gave me his title and contact info.
As for the MTO. I don't think that should be our focus - we don't have the resources yet to get their attention. But Yorkdale VW and certainly VW Canada could get the MTOs attention, so WE need to get the attention of Yorkdale VW and VW Canada.
Where does this leave us:
Ron suggested that we start a Facebook page to reach out to other affected customers, regardless of brand, that includes contacting other EV facebook pages. MrJ mentioned that he moderately threaten legal action to Yorkdale VW and his 30 day ultimatum is up next week. MrJ said he would contact us about Yorkdale VWs response.
Suzanne and I are relatively patient and we're going to give Yorkdale VW a bit longer to sort this out. In the meantime we're both planning on calling VW Canada to speak to some one as high-up as we can go. Again for me it's 14K and I'm willing to burn a vacation day or two to drive to their head office in person and get some information: 777 Bayly St W, Ajax, ON L1S 7G7.
A few more bits: so in reviewing my sales documents I was probably one of the last if not the last Yorkdale VW customers to pick up their egolf prior to the customer incentive deadline on Sep 11. I signed on the dotted line on Sep. 4th, 2018. That means, for me at least, if Yorkdale VW knew that my car was not on the list back on July 16th - the dealership list deadline, then they completely misrepresented themselves by claiming that I would receive a rebate and waving that carrot in front of me so I would buy the car. If in the end I need to go to small claims court, I will be using that as my primary argument - misrepresentation - basically a bait and switch.
I asked Ron when do dealerships actually get the VIN numbers. I was curious because if I pick-up my car so late in the game - it was literally being transported across the Atlantic when all this was coming to a head - then perhaps the dealership didn't have my VIN, and couldn't possibly have had it in on time. But, Ron said VW Canada would have all the VINs - approx 1400 egolfs sold across Canada in 2018, and that they would know months in advance about the VINs. That's somewhat positive - my car was ordered in Nov 2017 so surely VW Canada had the VIN for my car well before it even when into production.
As Ron said, it seems in this day and age the only way to get corporations to respond is to hold their feet to the fire.
Last edited:
Nothing yet. I will share what I receive from my FOI request as soon as I get it.====
HI! Did you get any chance getting the communications from the MTO- We have bought a Hyundai Ioniq and our dealer said their representative from Hyundai Canada have not been able to find any trace of communication from the MTO about this....
No one wants to do anything about this. Why would they want to shell over $14,000.
The only way I see this getting resolved is taking all 3 parties to small claims. Let the judge decide. Your claim should be simple. You qualified for the rebate and any or all of the defendants were not transparent to the consumer. Small claims is meant to be easy, don't forget to first give the Ontario Crown 60 days notice before filing.
The only way I see this getting resolved is taking all 3 parties to small claims. Let the judge decide. Your claim should be simple. You qualified for the rebate and any or all of the defendants were not transparent to the consumer. Small claims is meant to be easy, don't forget to first give the Ontario Crown 60 days notice before filing.
Myself, Kevin btw, Suzanne, and MrJ met. Ron Groves was there and was very helpful in suggesting websites to engage with, to spread the word, and to recruit other EV owners who also received denial letters. His message - particularly for VW egolf owners - is get the word out. Let the head office know that this unacceptable. Essentially make it a PR problem - a PR nightmare. VW Canada is just getting over the diesel gate scandal, so to have more mud flung in their faces is not good for business. He's suggesting trying to get the ear of the higher-ups at VW Canada, for example at the VP level. Speaking to reps on the phone or sending emails to the 'Contact Us' address is not going to get us where we need to be. Suzanne mentioned that she'll be calling VW Canada and I plan on doing the same. I'm going to demand that I speak with an executive.
At the dealership level, there wasn't much new. The 3 of us shared details of our conversations with Florin, and it was interesting to hear the versions. My last conversation with him was respectful and he sounded sincere when he told me that VW Yorkdale, and in fact VW Canada, are working on this issue with the MTO. He gave me the impression that it is the MTO that who is dragging this out. I can believe that, but it also could have simply been a smokescreen. On the other hand, Suzanne and MrJ both asked Florin for copies of the email sent to the MTO with all our VINs and in both cases Florin said he couldn't produce it because of IT issues. I think most people would consider that answer B.S., and that's what gets me and most of Yorkdale VW customers riled up. I interpret that as we-dropped-the-ball. Everytime I've contacted Yorkdale VW they insist that our VINs were on the list, but why can't anyone produce the document. And when I talked to the Umbudsman's office he tells me if my VIN was indeed on the list it should be a relatively simple clerical error to correct - so why hasn't it been corrected yet, and why don't I have my 14K?
That brings up another point: the 3 of us, and i'm sure other Yorkdale VW customers agree, the lack of a communication plan to the affected egolf customers was disgraceful. Certainly yes, the denial letter clearly said contact your dealership. So the ball was in our court, and we all contacted the dealership separately. But by the Monday morning after the denial letters arrived the alarm bells were ringing at Yorkdale VW (and I would guess at VW Canada as well) and they should have reacted with a letter to all their affected customers. They know who we are and it's common courtesy to give us updates and tell us what they're doing, rather than us having to contact them. Sure Filip returned my emails and calls, but not once did he initiate the contact, and I certainly never heard from Florin. I didn't even know he existed until last week when Filip gave me his title and contact info.
As for the MTO. I don't think that should be our focus - we don't have the resources yet to get their attention. But Yorkdale VW and certainly VW Canada could get the MTOs attention, so WE need to get the attention of Yorkdale VW and VW Canada.
Where does this leave us:
Ron suggested that we start a Facebook page to reach out to other affected customers, regardless of brand, that includes contacting other EV facebook pages. MrJ mentioned that he moderately threaten legal action to Yorkdale VW and his 30 day ultimatum is up next week. MrJ said he would contact us about Yorkdale VWs response.
Suzanne and I are relatively patient and we're going to give Yorkdale VW a bit longer to sort this out. In the meantime we're both planning on calling VW Canada to speak to some one as high-up as we can go. Again for me it's 14K and I'm willing to burn a vacation day or two to drive to their head office in person and get some information: 777 Bayly St W, Ajax, ON L1S 7G7.
A few more bits: so in reviewing my sales documents I was probably one of the last if not the last Yorkdale VW customers to pick up their egolf prior to the customer incentive deadline on Sep 11. I signed on the dotted line on Sep. 4th, 2018. That means, for me at least, if Yorkdale VW knew that my car was not on the list back on July 16th - the dealership list deadline, then they completely misrepresented themselves by claiming that I would receive a rebate and waving that carrot in front of me so I would buy the car. If in the end I need to go to small claims court, I will be using that as my primary argument - misrepresentation - basically a bait and switch.
I asked Ron when do dealerships actually get the VIN numbers. I was curious because if I pick-up my car so late in the game - it was literally being transported across the Atlantic when all this was coming to a head - then perhaps the dealership didn't have my VIN, and couldn't possibly have had it in on time. But, Ron said VW Canada would have all the VINs - approx 1400 egolfs sold across Canada in 2018, and that they would know months in advance about the VINs. That's somewhat positive - my car was ordered in Nov 2017 so surely VW Canada had the VIN for my car well before it even when into production.
As Ron said, it seems in this day and age the only way to get corporations to respond is to hold their feet to the fire.
No one wants to do anything about this. Why would they want to shell over $14,000.
The only way I see this getting resolved is taking all 3 parties to small claims. Let the judge decide. Your claim should be simple. You qualified for the rebate and any or all of the defendants were not transparent to the consumer. Small claims is meant to be easy, don't forget to first give the Ontario Crown 60 days notice before filing.
This is exactly what I was planning to do until my application was re-instated after being repeatedly told for a month that my vehicle wasn't on the list, when apparently it was all the time...
This is exactly what I was planning to do until my application was re-instated after being repeatedly told for a month that my vehicle wasn't on the list, when apparently it was all the time...
Which dealership did you buy your EV from and when did you find out your application was reinstated?
Ours was a Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid purchased from North York Chrysler.Which dealership did you buy your EV from and when did you find out your application was reinstated?
Purchased the vehicle July 17, 2018. Sent in the application July 21, 2018. Received notice of denial on February 28, 2019. After weeks of going back and forth with dealer, including calls to our MPP (which didn't go anywhere); the dealer or Chrysler Head Office (I'm not sure who) finally got the MTO to confirm that our vehicle was on the list the whole time, and we were reinstated on March 27, 2019, and we just received the cheque in the mail last week. I'm not sure why it took them a month to figure that out, or why it took them 7 months to tell us we were denied in the first place. The whole ordeal left a very bad taste in my mouth, and I feel for all the people who still haven't been paid.
Would you like me to start a Facebook page to reach out to others who were denied the incentive?
Yes that would be one way to link all affected EV owners
On the other hand, Suzanne and MrJ both asked Florin for copies of the email sent to the MTO with all our VINs and in both cases Florin said he couldn't produce it because of IT issues. I think most people would consider that answer B.S., and that's what gets me and most of Yorkdale VW customers riled up.
Apologies in advance for any repetition - hoping my full account will be helpful to others as yours have been to me.
I called our dealership (VW Downtown) immediately when we received our rejection notice, and asked my rep to straighten it out with MTO. Thought it was obviously some mixup since we'd ordered the car in 2017 and plated it before the deadline, as required.
Dealership rep called me back later that day to say the MTO had asked him to resubmit his dealership's list, and that my car was indeed on this list, but they couldn't resend the email because they delete all their email every couple of months.
I later spoke to MTO myself, confused about why this clerical detail matters if I have all my paperwork, etc. He said the dealership list is the ONLY thing - if your car ain't on the list, you don't get the rebate, period. He empathized with my situation and said he'd review the VW Downtown list himself and let me know if my car was on it. I had previously been encouraged by accounts on this forum of decisions being reversed, so I asked which situations qualify for reversals. He said one of these two conditions must be met:
1. There was a clerical error on the side of the MTO (they got a complete list from the dealer but for some reason didn't transcribe it into their database fully), or
2. The dealership can prove there was a technical issue which prevented them from submitting their list prior to the July deadline.
My only hope at that point then was Option 1, that VW Downtown was telling me the truth and they can provide evidence of this. So I reached out again to the dealership rep telling him that this problem is solved if he can just send me the email with the list (and my car on it), but he said this time that his manager can't find the email (not that they're all regularly deleted).
So, whether it's true or not that these VW dealerships can't find their email, they certainly seem motivated to keep them lost. Would they stick to this story under oath in a court of law?
And would this info, combined with assurances from my dealer from the time I ordered the car until it was delivered that it would be eligible for the incentive, and a signature on the application itself stating as much, be enough to win? It sure seems like it should.
the dealer or Chrysler Head Office (I'm not sure who) finally got the MTO to confirm that our vehicle was on the list the whole time, and we were reinstated on March 27, 2019, and we just received the cheque in the mail last week.
Had my fingers crossed for a similar result, however MTO followed up with me later to say they'd reviewed VW Downtown's list at my request, and my vehicle is not on it.
Would you like me to start a Facebook page to reach out to others who were denied the incentive?
Yes please, I'll join for sure.
Please join the Facebook group if you have not received your incentive. https://www.facebook.com/groups/701650080266410/
Thank you CWilson for setting up the Facebook page. Much appreciated!
I'm continuing to deal with my dealership and they, in turn, are going through our MPP. But no progress has been made. Hearing of Provincial funding cuts on the news every day is discouraging as the rebate debacle was obviously a way to create savings. But we stand a much better chance of being heard if we can assemble together, so thanks again CWilson.
I'm continuing to deal with my dealership and they, in turn, are going through our MPP. But no progress has been made. Hearing of Provincial funding cuts on the news every day is discouraging as the rebate debacle was obviously a way to create savings. But we stand a much better chance of being heard if we can assemble together, so thanks again CWilson.